Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 22,716
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Post by Legion on Apr 1, 2023 10:09:51 GMT -5
Jesus, and here I was thinking Rick was the decent one of the two! What a piece of trash to just randomly start shouting this at a convention. It's pleasing to see so many people offering support though - another example of the scummy business that is wrestling changing as the younger generation take over. The best thing Rick did was retire, he was just as hated as his brother, but since he vanished from the scene dust settled and he got the benefit of the doubt by default without having to change. Yeah, I went Googling and saw some of the horror stories. Seems The Steiners in general were just horrid people. The more you know...
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Post by The Barber on Apr 1, 2023 10:16:53 GMT -5
Ok. No problem. The board has said (if I am misquoting, please tell me) that no trans person should tell other people that they are trans and that every straight man won't mind it if they are and that is not realistic. I'd rather a trans person be up front about it than get deep into a relationship with an idiotic bigot who nobody know how that person will react. Nobody said literally any of that. Toates Madhackrviper : "I made the mistake of looking deep into the replies to replies and saw some guy saying the usual dumb shit transphobe say, and finished it with "ask any straight man if they'd date Gisele Shaw, they'd say no". Which yes, is dumb because a womanhood doesn't come from whether men want to date you, but its also absurd on its face because look at her." Most of them men I know disagree with this statement. Ok. No problem. The board has said (if I am misquoting, please tell me) that no trans person should tell other people that they are trans and that every straight man won't mind it if they are and that is not realistic. I'd rather a trans person be up front about it than get deep into a relationship with an idiotic bigot who nobody know how that person will react. Quote the person that said that. I don't think anyone said that. 🤔 Look at the quote above. Then may I ask, what should a man do if he finds out that the person he is with is trans? Just shrug his shoulders? I hate to tell you this, but that won't be most men's reactions. I'm not agreeing with it, but it's the truth. Not be a jerk off seems to be the answer here. It really shouldn't be that difficult to do, but it seems like it is for a lot of people in today's society. That is true for most topics in society. Umm...no. No disrespect sir, but you need to read my posts more thoroughly. I said that this board has many posts telling trans people that it is ok to not tell anyone that they are trans and that nothing will happen to them if they don't. I said that it is a good idea to say that they are because you never know how someone is going to react, especially if they get involved with said person. I think this board has a bad tendency to live in a bubble. I work, ride the bus with, and live in the neighborhood of people who don't consider trans women women because I have asked them about it before. I'm not a sir also no those posts don't exist and also you worry a lot about the possible mechanics of being deceived into being with a trans woman for someone whose every word on this topic ensures you will never have to deal with that conundrum. I don't know what bus you ride where this is a thing people will just talk about, but find a new bus. I live in the South. They are on every bus I know of.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 1, 2023 10:20:53 GMT -5
Nobody said literally any of that. Toates Madhackrviper : "I made the mistake of looking deep into the replies to replies and saw some guy saying the usual dumb shit transphobe say, and finished it with "ask any straight man if they'd date Gisele Shaw, they'd say no". Which yes, is dumb because a womanhood doesn't come from whether men want to date you, but its also absurd on its face because look at her." Most of them men I know disagree with this statement. For one, madhackrviper didn't say 'every' and he also said nothing about this 'no trans people should come out ever' you projected everything here. That twitter person said "No straight man would date her" and that's not true and no amount of people on your bus route inexplicably yelling about trans people will change that that statement isn't true and is the only absolute going on here. You took the thread into these places and it reveals your own prejudices and what you feel is important because it took you many many posts to get to the most tepid lip service of 'Rick Steiner did a bad thing thing' because your concern was a bunch of unrelated what-ifs about closeted trans people in relationshisp and it means nothing. You might not think this is transphobic but taken as a whole this is ugly
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
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Post by chazraps on Apr 1, 2023 10:21:03 GMT -5
No disrespect to anyone here, but some of the things you guys are saying is setting a bad precedent. Yes, in a perfect world, it wouldn't matter if someone has changed their sex. But in this imperfect world, a trans person who doesn't disclose that they are trans is setting themselves up for trouble. Most straight men will see Gisele as a man regardless of how many surgeries Gisele has had. Trans women are women. Trans men are men. If you're not consensually trying to conceive a child with them, it's none of your business. And nobody in Giselle's Rick Steiner recap was attempting to consensually conceive with anyone. lol trans people that fully “disclose” who they are also get massive amounts of abuse. Get lost with this victim-blaming shit. Tans women are women. There was a problem with the reply button so my original response never went through. I am not 'victim blaming'. I am fully ok with trans community being open about being trans and any hate they get is uncalled for. However, not telling a potential partner early on is not ok. I am not saying that they should be subject to any harm, but realistically, you don't know how most men would react in that situation, so it's best to get it out of the way before anything bad could happen. I mean, if you had the love of your life leaves you because she (I assume you are a straight male) found out that you once slept with a black woman, wouldn't you like to have known that before you gave your heart to this woman? That is why I have told potential sexual partners that I was with other races of women because some have said that they have a problem with it. OK so #1 she wasn't trying to date or hit on or interact in any way with Rick Steiner so your entire opinion that you're repeating in this thread has nothing to do with the matter at hand and #2 Where are you posting from where people are leaving the "loves of their lives" regarding the race of their previous sexual partners?
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Post by The Barber on Apr 1, 2023 10:22:53 GMT -5
Umm...no. No disrespect sir, but you need to read my posts more thoroughly. I said that this board has many posts telling trans people that it is ok to not tell anyone that they are trans and that nothing will happen to them if they don't. I said that it is a good idea to say that they are because you never know how someone is going to react, especially if they get involved with said person. I think this board has a bad tendency to live in a bubble. I work, ride the bus with, and live in the neighborhood of people who don't consider trans women women because I have asked them about it before. I'm not a sir also no those posts don't exist and also you worry a lot about the possible mechanics of being deceived into being with a trans woman for someone whose every word on this topic ensures you will never have to deal with that conundrum. I don't know what bus you ride where this is a thing people will just talk about, but find a new bus. I might add that I am not being snarky with you, so please do not be snarky with me Thank you. Guys, we’re not going to start lecturing to people how they allegedly *should* go about presenting or defining their gender identities, that’s their f***ing business. Either some of you knock that off, or the thread’s done and warnings may be handed out. Let’s keep it primarily based on the incident at hand, alright? OK. I'll add one more time that Rick Steiner is a moron who didn't apparently wash his ring gear or towels and used them constantly. That should tell you all you need to know about him. I'm not understanding your second point, however.
I'm glad you said this, because it's super important! I genuinely thing it's overlooked by lots of well-meaning people.
So earlier you wrote this: You also said that you support people being open, which is great! But the problem is that these ideas are sort of at odds: you accepting what you see as the norm, which in turn is a) defining what being open means for people, and b)pinning the other party's response on the trans person if they go about their openness in a way that goes against this. Ignoring that this upfront openness doesn't actually mitigate hate, it perpetuates the idea that the minority needs to comply with what a majority expects for their own safety/well-being. This mindset can be seen throughout history applied to different racial, gender, religious, and sexual groups, with unfortunate consequences for those expected to comply.
So going with an alleged truth because the the alternative seems unrealistic in the present is how progress grinds to an absolute halt and people get hurt. Social progress is often an uphill battle against ingrained mindsets and norms. Caring about equality means not giving up simply because the ideal result seems unrealistic.
I hope that's legible. I'm on mobile and the interface is less-than-friendly towards revisions.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 1, 2023 10:24:54 GMT -5
Nobody deserves to have hate spewed at them like that. By all accounts Gisele is also a sweetheart who goes above and beyond for fans and has done a lot for the transgender community since she came out.
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coleslaw
Don Corleone
Steve Sniffs
Posts: 2,025
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Post by coleslaw on Apr 1, 2023 10:29:32 GMT -5
What are the odds Gisele gets a featured match on Dynamite? Would be a pretty cool fallout for all this BS
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champchumpchange
Don Corleone
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall.
Posts: 1,682
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Post by champchumpchange on Apr 1, 2023 10:31:25 GMT -5
Why has the topic of trans women identifying themselves to sexual partners come up when this person was yelled at by an idiotic old man in a public setting ?
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Post by The Barber on Apr 1, 2023 10:38:37 GMT -5
I'm not understanding your second point, however.
I'm glad you said this, because it's super important! I genuinely thing it's overlooked by lots of well-meaning people.
So earlier you wrote this: You also said that you support people being open, which is great! But the problem is that these ideas are sort of at odds: you accepting what you see as the norm, which in turn is a) defining what being open means for people, and b)pinning the other party's response on the trans person if they go about their openness in a way that goes against this. Ignoring that this upfront openness doesn't actually mitigate hate, it perpetuates the idea that the minority needs to comply with what a majority expects for their own safety/well-being. This mindset can be seen throughout history applied to different racial, gender, religious, and sexual groups, with unfortunate consequences for those expected to comply.
So going with an alleged truth because the the alternative seems unrealistic in the present is how progress grinds to an absolute halt and people get hurt. Social progress is often an uphill battle against ingrained mindsets and norms. Caring about equality means not giving up simply because the ideal result seems unrealistic.
I hope that's legible. I'm on mobile and the interface is less-than-friendly towards revisions.
My reply button screwed up again. Your post is very legible. If I had wrote this on my phone, it would be full of misspelled words and emojis. But, you make a great point about marginalized groups being forced to comply and I will quote you to other people to see what they will say. In the land of bad takes, man. We may have found the monarch. But seriously, don't do that. I am not calling other people names.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 1, 2023 10:38:52 GMT -5
What are the odds Gisele gets a featured match on Dynamite? Would be a pretty cool fallout for all this BS She's signed to Impact so would have to work out a deal. I just feel this is worth mentioning. Before Gisele came out as trans I thought she was smoking hot. After she came out as trans I still found her smoking hot.
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Post by canceled4truth on Apr 1, 2023 10:39:06 GMT -5
How are you gonna look at the old dude, likely with brain damage, harassing a woman in public for no reason and say to yourself "maybe he's making some points on transgender issues in America"
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Post by The Barber on Apr 1, 2023 10:40:54 GMT -5
How are you gonna look at the old dude, likely with brain damage, harassing a woman in public for no reason and say to yourself "maybe he's making some points on transgender issues in America" I never said he did.
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Post by Ishmeal Loves Kaseyhausen on Apr 1, 2023 10:41:05 GMT -5
I just feel this is worth mentioning. Before Gisele came out as trans I thought she was smoking hot. After she came out as trans I still found her smoking hot. Summed it up perfectly for me. This is my take as well.
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Post by Ishmeal Loves Kaseyhausen on Apr 1, 2023 10:42:24 GMT -5
How are you gonna look at the old dude, likely with brain damage, harassing a woman in public for no reason and say to yourself "maybe he's making some points on transgender issues in America" I never said he did. Bud. Take the L and move on. Trust me.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Apr 1, 2023 10:43:13 GMT -5
If I got harassed and someone told me "Yeah but people who I ride the bus with do not believe you deserve dignity and wouldn't have sex with you" I think I'd try to fight them.
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Post by Defrebel - White Pony on Apr 1, 2023 10:43:57 GMT -5
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champchumpchange
Don Corleone
Everyone needs to drive a vehicle, even the very tall.
Posts: 1,682
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Post by champchumpchange on Apr 1, 2023 10:44:20 GMT -5
Well this thread certainly existed...
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by asuka007 on Apr 1, 2023 10:45:27 GMT -5
I love this weird shit where we have to pretend that straight men don't date and aren't attracted to trans women when I know so many trans women who get lonely straight dudes in their twitter DMs just f***ing drooling over them constantly. If you just don't know any trans people you end up with zero scale of just how attracted to trans women many, many straight men are. Which is all also not getting into the idea of trans women who are attracted to. Other women? Like why the f*** is this woman's dignity being centered around if men would date her as a singular stake-in-the-ground issue for why people in this thread are saying Wrong Things? Hunter Schaefer (from the show Euphoria) is trans and is dating a guy right now.
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coleslaw
Don Corleone
Steve Sniffs
Posts: 2,025
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Post by coleslaw on Apr 1, 2023 10:48:35 GMT -5
This is the perfect summary This thread f***ing sucks
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Post by The Barber on Apr 1, 2023 10:51:39 GMT -5
If I got harassed and someone told me "Yeah but people who I ride the bus with do not believe you deserve dignity and wouldn't have sex with you" I think I'd try to fight them. I think you are taking my posts way out of context. I'm not harassing that person at all. I am telling you that this is what people are saying about the issue. If you have a disagreement with someone and your first instinct is to fight, that is not a good sign, either.
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