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Post by stoptheclocks on Feb 9, 2024 7:44:58 GMT -5
People want to see Cody win the important title. I don't think they are invested in the specific storyline with Roman Reigns which has had almost zero memorable moments to this point that didn't involve a rubber chicken. If I'm wrong, presumably the crowds would shit all over Cody being added to a triple threat. Or any way this goes that isn't Cody vs Roman 1vs1 because that's the story they want. I don't think they will, I think they'll cheer every bit as loud if/when Cody wins, however he does it. The fans chanted "no" to Cody potentially facing Seth. The fans want Cody specifically to win the title from Reigns. Because Reigns has the important title, not because of some epic storyline that's been building. What was your favourite part of the Roman-Cody story prior to last week? Cody winning at the end is the destination, not a story. And it looks like we're headed there anyway. As I say, if I'm wrong and people did just want Cody to call his shot, few promos, bit of a face off at some point and then win, then I'm sure this new direction will continue to be shit on. But it looks like yesterday went down pretty well from what I can see. |
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deezy
Don Corleone
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Post by deezy on Feb 9, 2024 7:50:42 GMT -5
I agree. I don't understand the line of thinking either. Also, if they course-corrected, so what? If I enjoy a movie, I don't care if how many script-doctors got called in or how many re-writes it took to get to the finished product. The important thing is I liked the movie. I swear I’m not trying to do a “Stand Up For WWE” thing (certainly not the appropriate time for that *now*), but so long as they eventually come up with a good storyline, I’m satisfied. Can someone explain this? What is the point of fans waving around a victory flag that they “proved” they’re better bookers? Hunter had an idea, it was poorly received, so he scrapped it. The end. It happens. Again, so what? Or is it just retroactive Vince-hate? Exactly 💯 ! I wanted Cody-Roman at Wrestlemania and thats what I'm getting. I don't care if this was the plan all along or a pivot ( and i get if people want the story to make 100% sense along the way, I really do ), The right thing has been done. If they did pivot I give them credit for doing so. We give other bookers credit for pivoting and listening to fans so in this instance, I give them credit. |
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Post by stevescorpio on Feb 9, 2024 7:53:02 GMT -5
All this talk about the worst Rock movies, and yet no one has brought up Baywatch. That movie legitimately made me angry.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,933 
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Feb 9, 2024 8:35:53 GMT -5
The fans chanted "no" to Cody potentially facing Seth. The fans want Cody specifically to win the title from Reigns. Because Reigns has the important title, not because of some epic storyline that's been building. What was your favourite part of the Roman-Cody story prior to last week? Cody winning at the end is the destination, not a story. And it looks like we're headed there anyway. As I say, if I'm wrong and people did just want Cody to call his shot, few promos, bit of a face off at some point and then win, then I'm sure this new direction will continue to be shit on. But it looks like yesterday went down pretty well from what I can see. The story is "Cody got told by the company he'll never be more than a midcarder, left, helped build the first major alternative televised company since WCW, and has returned to win the belt that his father never did, in front of a roster that worships the ground his father walked on." Where Roman fits into that, aside from just being "The guy with the belt that matters" is that he was a part of Dusty's NXT. Cody debuted before that was ever a thing. |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 9, 2024 8:38:18 GMT -5
This press event didn't happen to build up Cody Rhodes, this press event happened because sports media is all over one location for the Superbowl and WWE wants to fight for some headlines; there's a reason they specifically announced it after The Rock and used him as the selling point for it. It was booked weeks in advance, minimum. There was no element of Cody being manipulated. They showed nothing. THey conveyed nothing. Tonight, Cody came out and said "nuh-uh" and Rock got mad. We can say 100%. We can. The manipulated part was shown with Rock and Roman being chummy and hugging when they were discussing the match at the presser. In storyline, Cody probably had Rock selling him on his hatred for Roman and wanting to overtake him as Head of the Table. My point is that we had nothing of Cody being manipulated in the days before. Now they're putting in elements showing Rock and Roman cooperating, but there existed nothing of that before last night, and they still haven't actually shown anything with Cody to seal that deal. I'm arguing against the idea this was the plan, because if it was the plan, the angle wouldn't have begun last night. |
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Feb 9, 2024 8:43:29 GMT -5
This quote from the Observer summarizes this whole mess:
"We’ve been told, as have most insiders, many things that contradict each other so the absolute truth is pretty much impossible to decipher."
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A Little Doo Doo
Salacious Crumb
An unconventional man with unconventional methods.
Posts: 74,697 
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Post by A Little Doo Doo on Feb 9, 2024 8:45:00 GMT -5
This whole thing has been some of the dumbest f***ing shit I've seen this company do creatively in the 30 or so years I've been watching.
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Post by Mr Mario Mario on Feb 9, 2024 9:37:27 GMT -5
If you genuinely believe that this was the masterplan from the start then I’ve got a bridge in the Antarctica that leads to a grove of magic beans that I want to sell you lol
However I will say credit at least that they fairly quickly pivoted away from a terrible idea. Clearly they underestimated how badly it would actually be received.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 9, 2024 9:39:46 GMT -5
The manipulated part was shown with Rock and Roman being chummy and hugging when they were discussing the match at the presser. In storyline, Cody probably had Rock selling him on his hatred for Roman and wanting to overtake him as Head of the Table. My point is that we had nothing of Cody being manipulated in the days before. Now they're putting in elements showing Rock and Roman cooperating, but there existed nothing of that before last night, and they still haven't actually shown anything with Cody to seal that deal. I'm arguing against the idea this was the plan, because if it was the plan, the angle wouldn't have begun last night. We’re only 6 days into the story. Also, if they dropped teases of Rock manipulating Cody to get the match last Friday everyone would’ve realized it was an angle and there wouldn’t have been the groundswell to this degree behind Cody there was this past week. This is all hypothetically assuming it was a work and not a pivot. If it’s a pivot, they can still tell those elements of how Cody was manipulated after the fact to narratively keep it making sense. At the end of the day, they’ve either worked or pivoted into something way more interesting week to week than if Cody simply called out Roman right away with no Rock involvement (aka the same story they did last build to Mania). |
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Feb 9, 2024 9:45:55 GMT -5
My point is that we had nothing of Cody being manipulated in the days before. Now they're putting in elements showing Rock and Roman cooperating, but there existed nothing of that before last night, and they still haven't actually shown anything with Cody to seal that deal. I'm arguing against the idea this was the plan, because if it was the plan, the angle wouldn't have begun last night. We’re only 6 days into the story. Also, if they dropped teases of Rock manipulating Cody to get the match last Friday everyone would’ve realized it was an angle and there wouldn’t have been the groundswell to this degree behind Cody there was this past week. This is all hypothetically assuming it was a work and not a pivot. If it’s a pivot, they can still tell those elements of how Cody was manipulated after the fact to narratively keep it making sense. At the end of the day, they’ve either worked or pivoted into something way more interesting week to week than if Cody simply called out Roman right away with no Rock involvement (aka the same story they did last build to Mania). The only thing I can potentially see is that they were going to make The Rock being evil some big dramatic reveal but they underestimated how much people are behind Cody from the jump and had to jump to the finish line. I agree that this is probably a bit more interesting, they still need to get the belt off Roman, though. |
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Tom Turkey
Ozymandius
The King of North America
Posts: 61,990
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Post by Tom Turkey on Feb 9, 2024 9:49:11 GMT -5
We’re only 6 days into the story. Also, if they dropped teases of Rock manipulating Cody to get the match last Friday everyone would’ve realized it was an angle and there wouldn’t have been the groundswell to this degree behind Cody there was this past week. This is all hypothetically assuming it was a work and not a pivot. If it’s a pivot, they can still tell those elements of how Cody was manipulated after the fact to narratively keep it making sense. At the end of the day, they’ve either worked or pivoted into something way more interesting week to week than if Cody simply called out Roman right away with no Rock involvement (aka the same story they did last build to Mania). The only thing I can potentially see is that they were going to make The Rock being evil some big dramatic reveal but they underestimated how much people are behind Cody from the jump and had to jump to the finish line. I agree that this is probably a bit more interesting, they still need to get the belt off Roman, though. This match has three things it needs to accomplish: - let Cody finally finish the damn story and win the title - get the belt off of Roman - set up Rock vs. Roman for real |
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J is Justice
Patti Mayonnaise
Will now be grateful.
They say fantasies can't come true, only dreams can.
Posts: 32,620
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Post by J is Justice on Feb 9, 2024 9:49:58 GMT -5
I'm not sure what's going on anymore, lol. At the end of the day, I just want Roman's title reign to be over with.
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 9, 2024 9:55:16 GMT -5
We’re only 6 days into the story. Also, if they dropped teases of Rock manipulating Cody to get the match last Friday everyone would’ve realized it was an angle and there wouldn’t have been the groundswell to this degree behind Cody there was this past week. This is all hypothetically assuming it was a work and not a pivot. If it’s a pivot, they can still tell those elements of how Cody was manipulated after the fact to narratively keep it making sense. At the end of the day, they’ve either worked or pivoted into something way more interesting week to week than if Cody simply called out Roman right away with no Rock involvement (aka the same story they did last build to Mania). The only thing I can potentially see is that they were going to make The Rock being evil some big dramatic reveal but they underestimated how much people are behind Cody from the jump and had to jump to the finish line. I agree that this is probably a bit more interesting, they still need to get the belt off Roman, though. Yeah if it was a work I can see them speed running to the heel turn. The one thing Meltzer has brought up that makes me think maybe it somehow was a work is that Punk-Rollins was being set up and Cody won the Rumble, and Rock signed January 3rd. All of those pieces together don’t make sense unless Rock and Ari/Khan legitimately went over HHH’s head, which does not seem likely to me anymore given that they’re in storyline playing up Rock as a board member vs. HHH. There’s also the Rock having said it’s going to be a long game (way before yesterday), and Gerwitz tweeting that “if you only knew” that point to this maybe being the plan all along that will eventually set up Rock vs. Roman match at next year’s Mania (maybe with Roman as the face). |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 9, 2024 9:56:57 GMT -5
My point is that we had nothing of Cody being manipulated in the days before. Now they're putting in elements showing Rock and Roman cooperating, but there existed nothing of that before last night, and they still haven't actually shown anything with Cody to seal that deal. I'm arguing against the idea this was the plan, because if it was the plan, the angle wouldn't have begun last night. We’re only 6 days into the story. Also, if they dropped teases of Rock manipulating Cody to get the match last Friday everyone would’ve realized it was an angle and there wouldn’t have been the groundswell to this degree behind Cody there was this past week. This is all hypothetically assuming it was a work and not a pivot. If it’s a pivot, they can still tell those elements of how Cody was manipulated after the fact to narratively keep it making sense. At the end of the day, they’ve either worked or pivoted into something way more interesting week to week than if Cody simply called out Roman right away with no Rock involvement (aka the same story they did last build to Mania). "If they did storytelling things and showed us the story happening, people would have realized it was a story" is what you're saying. Like boiled down to its core. And I agree, yeah. If they did storytelling things, people would have seen a story. If characters interacted, if intentions were foreshadowed, if character motivations were being put into place and the twist was being communicated to the audience, people would have not shit on it as much and it would have been seen as a real story. But I think the absence of those things and the fact that six days into the story we've already blasted through all of these plot points while skipping all the before and middle parts, is a big part of why this kind of has to be a pivot. People are backreading what we see now into the previous two segments on the matter, but they don't actually form a cohesive narrative taken as a whole. Those prior segments don't really make sense in light of what we have now, and everyone's motivations remain pretty shaky with the need to answer those questions in hindsight and built a story retroactively. I'm not arguing interest, that's subjective. I'm saying that it has to be a pivot because as a story they planned from the beginning, it doesn't track, and I think to say "This was what they planned all along" is in implication to gravely insult them and call WWE inept at telling stories with harsher implications than critics ever could. |
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Tom Turkey
Ozymandius
The King of North America
Posts: 61,990
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Post by Tom Turkey on Feb 9, 2024 9:59:52 GMT -5
The only thing I can potentially see is that they were going to make The Rock being evil some big dramatic reveal but they underestimated how much people are behind Cody from the jump and had to jump to the finish line. I agree that this is probably a bit more interesting, they still need to get the belt off Roman, though. Yeah if it was a work I can see them speed running to the heel turn. The one thing Meltzer has brought up that makes me think maybe it somehow was a work is that Punk-Rollins was being set up and Cody won the Rumble, and Rock signed January 3rd. All of those pieces together don’t make sense unless Rock and Ari/Khan legitimately went over HHH’s head, which does not seem likely to me anymore given that they’re in storyline playing up Rock as a board member vs. HHH. There’s also the Rock having said it’s going to be a long game (way before yesterday), and Gerwitz tweeting that “if you only knew” that point to this maybe being the plan all along that will eventually set up Rock vs. Roman match at next year’s Mania (maybe with Roman as the face). That last part probably got ignored and lost in all the heightened emotion of last weekend when everyone thought they were earnestly setting up Rock vs. Roman for WM40, and understandably so. |
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 9, 2024 10:01:25 GMT -5
We’re only 6 days into the story. Also, if they dropped teases of Rock manipulating Cody to get the match last Friday everyone would’ve realized it was an angle and there wouldn’t have been the groundswell to this degree behind Cody there was this past week. This is all hypothetically assuming it was a work and not a pivot. If it’s a pivot, they can still tell those elements of how Cody was manipulated after the fact to narratively keep it making sense. At the end of the day, they’ve either worked or pivoted into something way more interesting week to week than if Cody simply called out Roman right away with no Rock involvement (aka the same story they did last build to Mania). "If they did storytelling things and showed us the story happening, people would have realized it was a story" is what you're saying. Like boiled down to its core. And I agree, yeah. If they did storytelling things, people would have seen a story. If characters interacted, if intentions were foreshadowed, if character motivations were being put into place and the twist was being communicated to the audience, people would have not shit on it as much and it would have been seen as a real story. But I think the absence of those things and the fact that six days into the story we've already blasted through all of these plot points while skipping all the before and middle parts, is a big part of why this kind of has to be a pivot. People are backreading what we see now into the previous two segments on the matter, but they don't actually form a cohesive narrative taken as a whole. Those prior segments don't really make sense in light of what we have now, and everyone's motivations remain pretty shaky with the need to answer those questions in hindsight and built a story retroactively. I'm not arguing interest, that's subjective. I'm saying that it has to be a pivot because as a story they planned from the beginning, it doesn't track, and I think to say "This was what they planned all along" is in implication to gravely insult them and call WWE inept at telling stories with harsher implications than critics ever could. Which part of how I laid it out wouldn’t narratively make sense? It’s a bit more tell than show given they speedran to the heel turn, but it can make sense that Rock gaslit Cody into thinking he needed to get to Roman first to knock him off the Head of the Table and then Cody sees them being chummy at the press conference and hugging and talking about the Bloodline headlining Wrestlemania and flips and changes his mind. |
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Feb 9, 2024 10:02:17 GMT -5
Even if it was planned out from the beginning, it's pointless, incoherent, and treading on ground I'm utterly tired of having to deal with in wrestling. I'm personally far more inclined to say they pivoted, because what all has happened in the past week genuinely just does not make any sense for where they wound up, but if it was a work the whole time then great, whatever, it sucks either way but at least they wound up where they should have just gone in the first place.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Feb 9, 2024 10:04:01 GMT -5
We’re only 6 days into the story. Also, if they dropped teases of Rock manipulating Cody to get the match last Friday everyone would’ve realized it was an angle and there wouldn’t have been the groundswell to this degree behind Cody there was this past week. This is all hypothetically assuming it was a work and not a pivot. If it’s a pivot, they can still tell those elements of how Cody was manipulated after the fact to narratively keep it making sense. At the end of the day, they’ve either worked or pivoted into something way more interesting week to week than if Cody simply called out Roman right away with no Rock involvement (aka the same story they did last build to Mania). "If they did storytelling things and showed us the story happening, people would have realized it was a story" is what you're saying. Like boiled down to its core. And I agree, yeah. If they did storytelling things, people would have seen a story. If characters interacted, if intentions were foreshadowed, if character motivations were being put into place and the twist was being communicated to the audience, people would have not shit on it as much and it would have been seen as a real story. But I think the absence of those things and the fact that six days into the story we've already blasted through all of these plot points while skipping all the before and middle parts, is a big part of why this kind of has to be a pivot. People are backreading what we see now into the previous two segments on the matter, but they don't actually form a cohesive narrative taken as a whole. Those prior segments don't really make sense in light of what we have now, and everyone's motivations remain pretty shaky with the need to answer those questions in hindsight and built a story retroactively. I'm not arguing interest, that's subjective. I'm saying that it has to be a pivot because as a story they planned from the beginning, it doesn't track, and I think to say "This was what they planned all along" is in implication to gravely insult them and call WWE inept at telling stories with harsher implications than critics ever could. I just presented an idea that "oh, maybe they jumped ahead to the heel turn" and even that doesn't make sense as I think about it further, because you'd be teasing Rock/Roman in front of the media and then backtracking on it at a later date. This was a definitely a pivot. |
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,859
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Feb 9, 2024 10:06:56 GMT -5
Right before he chose Roman, Cody said that he and Rock had a wonderful conversation but he'd also had other conversations. It might be as easy as Cody explaining that he'd talked to people in the aftermath of Friday who made it clear to him that he'd been manipulated by the Rock, he heard the fan support and then seeing Roman/Rock at the press conference completely sealed it.
Is it the cleanest explanation? No. But it's not the worst either
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 9, 2024 10:06:57 GMT -5
Even if it was planned out from the beginning, it's pointless, incoherent, and treading on ground I'm utterly tired of having to deal with in wrestling. I'm personally far more inclined to say they pivoted, because what all has happened in the past week genuinely just does not make any sense for where they wound up, but if it was a work the whole time then great, whatever, it sucks either way but at least they wound up where they should have just gone in the first place. I’d push back on the pointless part. They’ve increased interest in the story and Mania, and reinvigorated the Bloodline story when it’s kind of been limping along for months. It feels fresher now than if Cody simply called out Roman in a rinse and repeat of last year. |
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