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Post by Jindrak Mark on Feb 9, 2024 12:04:16 GMT -5
If it was possible for Rock v Roman to main event this Mania for the title and crowds in arenas were happy to go along with it there's no doubt in my mind they'd have done it and saved Cody winning the title for Summerslam. It just wasn't possible though. If they did the build and the match would have been ruined with Cody chants. They had to pivot.
I also don't particularly care whether something is the original plan or not anyway. When I'm reading a book I don't care if the end result came about on the 1st draft, the 5th draft, the 19th draft, etc. I either enjoy the finished product or I don't. The order in which things came into the author's head is meaningless to me. I know a lot of people are really invested in knowing whether something was the the original plan or not though. Hell I know in the Rambo fandom it's a big thing that Rambo was originally going to die at the end of the first movie and they had filmed the different endings but ended up going with him surviving. That ones just off the top off my head I know realistically there are tons of examples of this.
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
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Post by Chiral on Feb 9, 2024 12:09:20 GMT -5
I should probably bow out at the "stories don't really matter, why are people still complaining or analyzing the f***up, they fixed it you IWC goofs" phase of the thread
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 9, 2024 12:15:30 GMT -5
People who care about narrative structure? "This story doesn't make any sense," isn't exactly a fickle complaint. In wrestling it doesn’t matter. I know that’s probably a hot take but it really doesn’t. Fans decide where things go much more in wrestling than most other mediums. You throw away any plans you may have if the paying customer demands something else. Wait hold on who are you even arguing with here? Nobody is saying they shouldn't have pivoted because it doesn't make sense. Giving the fans what they wanted Cody back in the match) is not the thing being rejected here for the protection of narrative cohesion. |
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Post by stoptheclocks on Feb 9, 2024 12:21:51 GMT -5
Because Reigns has the important title, not because of some epic storyline that's been building. What was your favourite part of the Roman-Cody story prior to last week? Cody winning at the end is the destination, not a story. And it looks like we're headed there anyway. As I say, if I'm wrong and people did just want Cody to call his shot, few promos, bit of a face off at some point and then win, then I'm sure this new direction will continue to be shit on. But it looks like yesterday went down pretty well from what I can see. The story is "Cody got told by the company he'll never be more than a midcarder, left, helped build the first major alternative televised company since WCW, and has returned to win the belt that his father never did, in front of a roster that worships the ground his father walked on." Where Roman fits into that, aside from just being "The guy with the belt that matters" is that he was a part of Dusty's NXT. Cody debuted before that was ever a thing. Sure, but that all goes back to the post I was originally responding to way back in this thread, which was saying that Rock vs Roman hadn't been built as a story unless you added in stuff that hasn't played out on TV. Which is also true of what you've said is good about Cody vs Roman. If they've been engaged in an epic story for two years and the key parts are the formation of AEW and Dusty Rhodes era NXT, something has gone wrong somewhere. |
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Post by HIM on Feb 9, 2024 12:25:18 GMT -5
Look, I’m not trying to imply that narrative structure in wrestling or any genre period isn’t important. No, they shouldn’t have tried to put Rock in the match. Yes, the WWE writers fixed a problem that shouldn’t have been broken to start, I agree. What *I* don’t get is this seething and continued angry tone in the last few pages that the booking mistake happened. Well just like ten years ago, they made an adjustment and presumably it ought to lead to an entertaining weekend coming up. Are you guys so mad to where your excitement’s totally gone now? It's the main reason I'm not posting much in this thread anymore. If it's about Cody's story then we're in a better position than a few days ago and unlike the Vince era when something like this would happen, we see improvement. I don't agree with the "I'm not giving em credit for doing what needs to be done" stuff when people call someone a bitch just because Cody doesn't pick em even though they've won all their matches these past 8 months while being injured. People on this forum give credit for all sorts of stuff. People giving em credit for this is cool especially given it's an unlikely result even if the road was rocky. It's sort of a case where when everyone was all mad things were good and cool because we were on the same page but the moment they're doing something to where people aren't as mad it's apparently a bad thing people are cool with the result just because others are still upset. |
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khali
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,912
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Post by khali on Feb 9, 2024 12:29:46 GMT -5
“Who gives a f*** if it makes sense narratively” is such an amazing statement. You can use it for anything!
“Why did Russo book that swerve? It makes no sense.”
“Who gives a f*** if it makes sense narratively.”
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Feb 9, 2024 12:29:59 GMT -5
I'm glad they pivoted, I just don't think they deserve much credit for doing so when they should have just done the logical thing in the first place. I'm not going to continue to hold it against them but I'm also not going to praise them for making the stupid decision to begin with.
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Post by Snaptastic on Feb 9, 2024 12:30:04 GMT -5
Look, I’m not trying to imply that narrative structure in wrestling or any genre period isn’t important. No, they shouldn’t have tried to put Rock in the match. Yes, the WWE writers fixed a problem that shouldn’t have been broken to start, I agree. What *I* don’t get is this seething and continued angry tone in the last few pages that the booking mistake happened. Well just like ten years ago, they made an adjustment and presumably it ought to lead to an entertaining weekend coming up. Are you guys so mad to where your excitement’s totally gone now? It's the main reason I'm not posting much in this thread anymore. If it's about Cody's story then we're in a better position than a few days ago and unlike the Vince era when something like this would happen, we see improvement. I don't agree with the "I'm not giving em credit for doing what needs to be done" stuff when people call someone a bitch just because Cody doesn't pick em even though they've won all their matches these past 8 months while being injured. People on this forum give credit for all sorts of stuff. It's sort of a case where when everyone was all mad things were good and cool because we were on the same page but the moment they're doing something to where people aren't as mad it's apparently a bad thing people are cool with the result just because others are still upset. I don't make many friends on this forum. But some of the names that were bitching and whining here in 2011/2012 over Rock being involved, are still bitching and whining now, 12 years later. It was never about the storyline, but rather who was involved. Each to their own I guess, but I'd get bored of hating by now myself. |
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Post by HIM on Feb 9, 2024 12:34:06 GMT -5
It's the main reason I'm not posting much in this thread anymore. If it's about Cody's story then we're in a better position than a few days ago and unlike the Vince era when something like this would happen, we see improvement. I don't agree with the "I'm not giving em credit for doing what needs to be done" stuff when people call someone a bitch just because Cody doesn't pick em even though they've won all their matches these past 8 months while being injured. People on this forum give credit for all sorts of stuff. It's sort of a case where when everyone was all mad things were good and cool because we were on the same page but the moment they're doing something to where people aren't as mad it's apparently a bad thing people are cool with the result just because others are still upset. I don't make many friends on this forum. But some of the names that were bitching and whining here in 2011/2012 over Rock being involved, are still bitching and whining now, 12 years later. It was never about the storyline, but rather who was involved. Each to their own I guess, but I'd get bored of hating by now myself. I'll admit, I knew Rock was disliked but a lot of the comments in these threads make it look like he had sex with people's wives and lived to tell the tale. Sure I was mad but not to the level of others here. I didn't know the Rock hate went that deep. You'd think he was Norman Osborn or Lex Luthor judging how hard people were going at him. |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 9, 2024 12:34:15 GMT -5
It's the main reason I'm not posting much in this thread anymore. If it's about Cody's story then we're in a better position than a few days ago and unlike the Vince era when something like this would happen, we see improvement. I don't agree with the "I'm not giving em credit for doing what needs to be done" stuff when people call someone a bitch just because Cody doesn't pick em even though they've won all their matches these past 8 months while being injured. People on this forum give credit for all sorts of stuff. It's sort of a case where when everyone was all mad things were good and cool because we were on the same page but the moment they're doing something to where people aren't as mad it's apparently a bad thing people are cool with the result just because others are still upset. I don't make many friends on this forum. But some of the names that were bitching and whining here in 2011/2012 over Rock being involved, are still bitching and whining now, 12 years later. It was never about the storyline, but rather who was involved. Each to their own I guess, but I'd get bored of hating by now myself. Go on just tell us what to do with our nuggets, man. |
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 17,782
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Feb 9, 2024 12:35:23 GMT -5
JUst because they actually pivoted like they logically should have, doesn't mean we can't still rake them over the coals for needing to pivot in the first place or being confused at how the story doesn't make sense.
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Post by Snaptastic on Feb 9, 2024 12:35:49 GMT -5
I don't make many friends on this forum. But some of the names that were bitching and whining here in 2011/2012 over Rock being involved, are still bitching and whining now, 12 years later. It was never about the storyline, but rather who was involved. Each to their own I guess, but I'd get bored of hating by now myself. Go on just tell us what to do with our nuggets, man. I would suggest consuming them orally, which I would hope is the accepted method. |
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Post by Snaptastic on Feb 9, 2024 12:36:59 GMT -5
JUst because they actually pivoted like they logically should have, doesn't mean we can't still rake them over the coals for needing to pivot in the first place or being confused at how the story doesn't make sense. You're not raking them over the coals. You're bitching on an online forum. Unless of course you're a shareholder, then rake away at the next meeting. |
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Post by Stu on Feb 9, 2024 12:39:36 GMT -5
I’m just not fond of this mentality.
Fan: Argh, I’m mad. You messed things up.
WWE: Fine, we’ll go back to the original plan.
Fan: Argh, I’m going to keep being mad because you never should have done it in the first place.
That could then lead to:
WWE: Fine, if you’re going to be mad anyway, we’re going back to the new plan.
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 17,782
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Feb 9, 2024 12:41:26 GMT -5
JUst because they actually pivoted like they logically should have, doesn't mean we can't still rake them over the coals for needing to pivot in the first place or being confused at how the story doesn't make sense. You're not raking them over the coals. You're bitching on an online forum. Unless of course you're a shareholder, then rake away at the next meeting. *blink blink* Are we now arguing semantics? Seriously? We are criticizing a dumb decision by higher ups that almost screwed up the easiest story that could be told. I don't even hate The Rock, hell I actually enjoyed him being back against Cena. But shoving his nose into Wrestlemania like he did here wasn't necessary. If you enjoy the story they're telling now, fantastic, I'm not taking that away from you or telling you you can't enjoy it. I'm saying that I MYSELF don't like what they've don't despite actually listening to the fans for once. FFS I hate it here sometimes. |
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khali
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,912
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Post by khali on Feb 9, 2024 12:42:28 GMT -5
JUst because they actually pivoted like they logically should have, doesn't mean we can't still rake them over the coals for needing to pivot in the first place or being confused at how the story doesn't make sense. And like, they fixed in that Cody and Roman is happening. But they’ve also teased some worked shoot Rock/Triple H power struggle out of it, which doesn’t interest me in the slightest. We’re still getting some weird shooty thing out if it that could have been avoided. |
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Post by ChitownKnight on Feb 9, 2024 12:43:27 GMT -5
Good on the Rock for not doubling down, giving Cody the main event and turning heel. I guess they can explain it away by saying the Rock tried pressing his political power over Cody.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Feb 9, 2024 12:43:28 GMT -5
In either case, getting back to the actual topic...
I'm guessing that they're going to have a thing where Rock turns out to be faking or has a change of heart or something and helps Cody by evening the odds when the Mania 39 ending appears to be about to happen again, but I think it'd be more interesting if you did a thing where Cody clearly has Roman beat and Rock just tells Solo and Jimmy not to help him then Cody finishes him off. The family abandoning Roman when he can't get the job done would make for a much more interesting story.
Granted this all being said I would not be shocked whatsoever if Roman retains.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,912
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Post by khali on Feb 9, 2024 12:43:53 GMT -5
JUst because they actually pivoted like they logically should have, doesn't mean we can't still rake them over the coals for needing to pivot in the first place or being confused at how the story doesn't make sense. You're not raking them over the coals. You're bitching on an online forum. Unless of course you're a shareholder, then rake away at the next meeting. We’re all bitching on an online forum. You’re bitching about bitching on an online forum! All bitching is as valid as any other bitching. |
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Post by polarbearpete on Feb 9, 2024 12:45:40 GMT -5
A lot of the interest in the story until last night was “they can’t possibly be this f***ing stupid.” On the off-chance this was the plan from the beginning, playing on your history of screwing the pooch by going “hey, we might screw the pooch again here, aren’t you hoping we don’t do that?” isn’t some storytelling masterstroke. I'd have to think that most people who are going to watch it would've been watching regardless of any of this mess, so the people you'd want to be trying to reach (especially with The Rock involved) would be the lapsed fans... who are lapsed fans for a reason and there's no universe in which loudly demonstrating (even as a work) that you're still the same shitty company with the same shitty booking as before the merger, or Vince leaving, or HHH's NXT makes any sense as a selling point.
Nonsensical misery booking is a large part of why I stopped watching regularly, then entirely, so as I've said a few times since the Rumble it's incredibly disappointing that after hearing all the hype about the company having turned a corner (or several) we're here talking about this right now. It reeks of "same old WWE" even if they really have changed.
Last night felt like anything but “same old WWE”, imo. I don’t think a Vince led WWE tells that same story (or if not a work, pivots in a matter of days). |
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