markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 19,640
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Post by markymark on Aug 13, 2023 13:08:46 GMT -5
Is there any reason uncle Tony can’t just make this the All Out show as oppose to running two PPVs on back to back Sundays and make people pay twice? Did the concept of bundling ever come up? Makes no sense to run the London show and have absolutely no build up towards All Out.
I believe he had no options once WWE beat him to the punch for doing a PPV in the UK first mid 2023 and also the MAX thing not being ready until October.
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Post by glorious83 on Aug 13, 2023 13:16:54 GMT -5
That’s fine and dandy but he could have given All Out some room to breathe and a proper build up by having it in the middle to late September.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Aug 13, 2023 13:21:40 GMT -5
That’s fine and dandy but he could have given All Out some room to breathe and a proper build up by having it in the middle to late September. Not if the stadium was booked months in advance in either direction. Like, Wembley isn’t exactly easy to book around right now in between upcoming concerts and such along with there being so many slots per year and I don’t know about the United Centre but I’m sure there’s some stuff going on with the NHL and NBA seasons kicking off the month after. I’m not justifying anything but none of this stuff is ever as simple as that.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 24,148
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Post by Bo Rida on Aug 13, 2023 13:23:09 GMT -5
No Kenny singles match, basically. When it was rumored Kenny was going to face Takeshita there were already some fans complaining it wasnt "worth" for All In the "biggest PPV ever"
This isn't people here though is it? Has this thread been cleaned up or are people arguing against Twitter or Reddit comments? Sorry don't mean to single you out, you're not the only one. Like others I dont see the hate or doom mongering. Just mild disappointment or underwhelm in certain rumoured matches. Although even if anyone does think only Omega Vs Ospreay would do then I don't agree but fair enough that's their opinion and Will shouldn't have teased it by saying he knew a place.
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Post by glorious83 on Aug 13, 2023 13:27:50 GMT -5
That’s fine and dandy but he could have given All Out some room to breathe and a proper build up by having it in the middle to late September. Not if the stadium was booked months in advance in either direction. Like, Wembley isn’t exactly easy to book around right now in between upcoming concerts and such along with there being so many slots per year and I don’t know about the United Centre but I’m sure there’s some stuff going on with the NHL and NBA seasons kicking off the month after. I’m not justifying anything but none of this stuff is ever as simple as that. Granted I get the whole Wembley situation but you can run other buildings than the United Centre for All Out. You don’t need to pigeon hole yourself into one building for your biggest show of the year. (Not this year but any other year All Out usually is.)
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Post by darbus alan on Aug 13, 2023 13:28:34 GMT -5
All Out probably shouldn't be happening, and All In would've replaced it outright on this years' schedule because it does feel like an afterthought for AEW. But I imagine the United Center was booked a long time in advance, and arenas don't exactly like it when big events like that are cancelled.
I don't think Tony Khan went into this thinking "Holding these huge events in back to back weeks is a great idea!" More just the cards that were dealt.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Aug 13, 2023 13:34:22 GMT -5
No Kenny singles match, basically.
When it was rumored Kenny was going to face Takeshita there were already some fans complaining it wasnt "worth" for All In the "biggest PPV ever"
I haven't seen anybody saying that here. All I've seen is people disappointed that Kenny may not have a singles match at their biggest ever show, which is fair criticism.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Aug 13, 2023 13:37:03 GMT -5
All Out probably shouldn't be happening, and All In would've replaced it outright on this years' schedule because it does feel like an afterthought for AEW. But I imagine the United Center was booked a long time in advance, and arenas don't exactly like it when big events like that are cancelled. I don't think Tony Khan went into this thinking "Holding these huge events in back to back weeks is a great idea!" More just the cards that were dealt. And if you do cancel it and the United Center doesn’t just go “Hey fine, you’re never coming here again”, then you’d have to have a make good so it’d have to happen at another time and you’d have to accommodate for that. The trouble is, as a private company, we don’t know the contexts for the United Center deals in the first place. Could be multi show so that WWE doesn’t try and wiggle in and prevent AEW from booking it later on or could be the only slot they could get and had to eventually build around that.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Aug 13, 2023 13:39:10 GMT -5
Also, still amused people took the “I know a place” as anything but Will setting up the match for next year’s Wrestle Kingdom. If you know anything about the point of the feud between Ospreay and Omega, especially when Kenny challenged Will for the first time, they weren’t going to do a match where the winner is the top Gaijin in New Japan at a non-New Japan show. It wasn’t going to happen.
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Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
every time i come around your city...
Posts: 17,205
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Post by Renslayer on Aug 13, 2023 13:45:28 GMT -5
That’s fine and dandy but he could have given All Out some room to breathe and a proper build up by having it in the middle to late September. Not if the stadium was booked months in advance in either direction. Like, Wembley isn’t exactly easy to book around right now in between upcoming concerts and such along with there being so many slots per year and I don’t know about the United Centre but I’m sure there’s some stuff going on with the NHL and NBA seasons kicking off the month after. I’m not justifying anything but none of this stuff is ever as simple as that. Generally speaking, how far out in advance do companies have to book arenas like the United center?
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Aug 13, 2023 13:52:55 GMT -5
Not if the stadium was booked months in advance in either direction. Like, Wembley isn’t exactly easy to book around right now in between upcoming concerts and such along with there being so many slots per year and I don’t know about the United Centre but I’m sure there’s some stuff going on with the NHL and NBA seasons kicking off the month after. I’m not justifying anything but none of this stuff is ever as simple as that. Generally speaking, how far out in advance do companies have to book arenas like the United center? I don’t know if American arenas are different but I know that most arenas around here, if you’re big enough, need to be booked months or even a year in advance. As an example, the Jonas Brothers tour is coming over here in June 2024 and they’ve started advertising it for the 3Arena right now.
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Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 12,447
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Post by Kalmia on Aug 13, 2023 13:54:53 GMT -5
All Out has always been the same weekend. It's a holiday weekend in the US, I think? I guess that All Out was in the calendar and this was probably the only weekend they could get Wembley. WWE jumping in with MITB probably pushed AEW's plans to later in the summer. None of the other stadiums would be available at this time of the year due to the football season so it was either Wembley, an arena, or wait until next May/June.
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Aug 13, 2023 14:40:53 GMT -5
When it was rumored Kenny was going to face Takeshita there were already some fans complaining it wasnt "worth" for All In the "biggest PPV ever"
I haven't seen anybody saying that here. All I've seen is people disappointed that Kenny may not have a singles match at their biggest ever show, which is fair criticism. A Kenny Omega singles match is something I was looking forward to, and the only reason I would seek this show out on TV. I doubt I'm alone in that.
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KME
Team Rocket
Posts: 979
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Post by KME on Aug 13, 2023 15:11:11 GMT -5
Anyone watching/buying a show to see ONE guy in a singles match with no desire to watch anything else may not be alone but you'd imagine would be in a tiny, tiny minority.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Aug 13, 2023 15:32:27 GMT -5
But ths isn't an exhibition show. Ths isn't "a bunch of workrate matches with indie cameos". The only ROH guys on it so far are a pre-show match meant to feed into the Cole/MJF storyline, and there's literally no New Japan talents. Right now, booked for this show, is the biggest storyline going for the world title, a Sting match building off another hot storyline, several of the top women in the company (and Saraya) fighting for the title, and FTR vs. Bucks 3. All of those are big. Nothing that's been announced for the main card right now is even remotely close to being the kind of stuff you're talking about, and the matches we do have rumoured, aside from being rumoured, have not actually been booked yet with any inciting incident that lets us know the final scale or consequences of what's happening in them. And even the rumoured multi-man matches right now all featuring big talents known to deliver big shit in these chaotic matches are going to deliver a specific portion of AEW action that is generally a f***ing blast and going to make the live crowd pop like mad. This is what I mean when I say this whole sentiment is unbelievably vague. They're not squandering this opportunity. But the point that some of us are making is that we just wanted more confidence that what we now expect the show to be is what the show was going to be. It's taken quite a while to get to a point where we're even seeing actual committed to paper confirmed matches and even many of the ones we think are going to happen aren't yet actually confirmed. It's not exactly a new and alien concept that a big wrestling show is announced and suddenly the community is fantasy booking the thing to the moon and it's also not a new and alien concept that a promotion announces a huge show that turns out to be mind-blowingly disappointing to where the matches are meaningless and the hype was all for nothing. So all I'm saying is that, for AEW's biggest moment in the entire universe of wrestling, I don't want to see people disappointed either by AEW leaving a vacuum of information such that people speculate all kinds of wild never-gonna-happen dream matches or AEW squandering their chance to stamp their brand deep into the leather strap that is the history of such a storied business as this. I don't want people to con themselves into expecting miracles and I don't want AEW to get the vibe wrong, because either way people are going to be underwhelmed, and nobody wants that. It's not all AEW's fault, it happens with all promotions, wrestling fans' imaginations run wild (and I get it, people love the sport, they want to talk about it, think about it, be the fantasy booker), so I think when such an important opportunity as this comes along you need to manage expectations, and I don't think leaving months of unexplained hype just hanging in the air is the way to do that. I'm going to enjoy it anyway, most (hopefully functionally equivalent to all) of us are, maybe you can argue I'm leaning too far towards pessimism to counteract the speculation and hype, but I'm not being a miserable git for no reason at all or accusing AEW of planning to sandbag the show, I'm just saying that on this particular occasion, due to the gravity of it, we could've maybe used a little more of a clue in the midst of all the unsubstantiated, unconfirmed, even unrealistic "what ifs" so that we could be comfortable knowing that this show is going to be of the type and calibre that it could and should be. But this is just an AEW PPV. This is every AEW PPV. The part where my confusion is here is because people keep throwing around a demand or even just expectation of some elevated show beyond that, and so far what we've had built is just what AEW PPVs look like. AEW did nothing different from any other PPV announcement. They made no different promises and intimated no further hints or claims that actually led to people thinking they should expet something huge and transcendent. I kind of do think it's not any AEW's fault here because people getting in their heads a vague notion that this show will be somehow more was all kind of on them. But also the fact the card we have so far hasn't been any sort of meaningless no-hype filler house show card is where my confusion for this also stems. Even the build for this show has just been how AEW builds PPVs. All Out if anything got f***ed raw even if Kenny and Takeshita are put in a tag match to push their All Out show because Wembley is all the promotion is going toward and so far it's honestly got way bigger matches lined up even than the stuff All Out is going to get (Cole/Page, FTR/Bucks). Like, if people aren't happy with the fact it's an AEW PPV that's just in a huge stadium, sure, fine, but I think they need ot consider where they got the idea it might be more and maybe look within. AEW's gotten a lot of blowback here for handling this 'wrong' when I think everything in their messaging, booking, and handling has set this up as being an AEW PPV and nothing more. It's special because of its scale and it accomplishes that scale and success as proof the UK wants AEW.
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Aug 13, 2023 18:41:47 GMT -5
Anyone watching/buying a show to see ONE guy in a singles match with no desire to watch anything else may not be alone but you'd imagine would be in a tiny, tiny minority. Of course, definitely a minority. I mean, I would watch the rest of the show, but Kenny Omega in singles action would be THE reason I'd order the show.
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deezy
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,723
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Post by deezy on Aug 13, 2023 19:05:04 GMT -5
Anyone watching/buying a show to see ONE guy in a singles match with no desire to watch anything else may not be alone but you'd imagine would be in a tiny, tiny minority. Of course, definitely a minority. I mean, I would watch the rest of the show, but Kenny Omega in singles action would be THE reason I'd order the show. I know how you feel. If I order the ppv it's mostly because of Sting and that it might be his last big match. To me most of the card is underwhelming so far.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 19,640
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Post by markymark on Aug 13, 2023 19:59:08 GMT -5
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Post by darbus alan on Aug 13, 2023 20:06:15 GMT -5
I can't wait to see MJF and Adam Cole double clothesline Aussie Open in front of half a million people brother!
Really, I'm looking forward to the BTE where someone inevitably "for entertainment purposes" inflates the attendance numbers to a comedic degree.
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ssdrivin
ALF
Claims to be squishy, has yet to be proven.
Posts: 1,042
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Post by ssdrivin on Aug 13, 2023 20:20:49 GMT -5
But the point that some of us are making is that we just wanted more confidence that what we now expect the show to be is what the show was going to be. It's taken quite a while to get to a point where we're even seeing actual committed to paper confirmed matches and even many of the ones we think are going to happen aren't yet actually confirmed. It's not exactly a new and alien concept that a big wrestling show is announced and suddenly the community is fantasy booking the thing to the moon and it's also not a new and alien concept that a promotion announces a huge show that turns out to be mind-blowingly disappointing to where the matches are meaningless and the hype was all for nothing. So all I'm saying is that, for AEW's biggest moment in the entire universe of wrestling, I don't want to see people disappointed either by AEW leaving a vacuum of information such that people speculate all kinds of wild never-gonna-happen dream matches or AEW squandering their chance to stamp their brand deep into the leather strap that is the history of such a storied business as this. I don't want people to con themselves into expecting miracles and I don't want AEW to get the vibe wrong, because either way people are going to be underwhelmed, and nobody wants that. It's not all AEW's fault, it happens with all promotions, wrestling fans' imaginations run wild (and I get it, people love the sport, they want to talk about it, think about it, be the fantasy booker), so I think when such an important opportunity as this comes along you need to manage expectations, and I don't think leaving months of unexplained hype just hanging in the air is the way to do that. I'm going to enjoy it anyway, most (hopefully functionally equivalent to all) of us are, maybe you can argue I'm leaning too far towards pessimism to counteract the speculation and hype, but I'm not being a miserable git for no reason at all or accusing AEW of planning to sandbag the show, I'm just saying that on this particular occasion, due to the gravity of it, we could've maybe used a little more of a clue in the midst of all the unsubstantiated, unconfirmed, even unrealistic "what ifs" so that we could be comfortable knowing that this show is going to be of the type and calibre that it could and should be. But this is just an AEW PPV. This is every AEW PPV. The part where my confusion is here is because people keep throwing around a demand or even just expectation of some elevated show beyond that, and so far what we've had built is just what AEW PPVs look like. AEW did nothing different from any other PPV announcement. They made no different promises and intimated no further hints or claims that actually led to people thinking they should expet something huge and transcendent. I kind of do think it's not any AEW's fault here because people getting in their heads a vague notion that this show will be somehow more was all kind of on them. But also the fact the card we have so far hasn't been any sort of meaningless no-hype filler house show card is where my confusion for this also stems. Even the build for this show has just been how AEW builds PPVs. All Out if anything got f***ed raw even if Kenny and Takeshita are put in a tag match to push their All Out show because Wembley is all the promotion is going toward and so far it's honestly got way bigger matches lined up even than the stuff All Out is going to get (Cole/Page, FTR/Bucks). Like, if people aren't happy with the fact it's an AEW PPV that's just in a huge stadium, sure, fine, but I think they need ot consider where they got the idea it might be more and maybe look within. AEW's gotten a lot of blowback here for handling this 'wrong' when I think everything in their messaging, booking, and handling has set this up as being an AEW PPV and nothing more. It's special because of its scale and it accomplishes that scale and success as proof the UK wants AEW. But this isn't "any other PPV", it's Wembley Stadium. That's when they set their own bar on the moon, the second those two words came out of Adam Cole's mouth, in that backstage segment. Of course there's an expectation of an "elevated show beyond that", it's an EIGHTY THOUSAND CAPACITY VENUE and a very historically important one at that.
How could that not raise expectations? That's why they called it All In, because they damn well have to be to make that venue make sense, it's by far bigger than anything they've ever done before, that in itself is making a promise. It's multiple times bigger than AEW's ever done, in a venue that's uber-famous inside and outside of the UK for being where huge important stuff happens, that's what it is, what it means, it's the pinnacle of sporting and entertainment history in the UK.
If they'd booked Wembley Arena, or Craven Cottage, or the O2 Arena, that'd be cool, that'd be AEW coming to the UK to put on the same shows they put on elsewhere. But this isn't those places. It's the most ostentatious, attention-grabbing, "I've got balls the size of Neptune" play he could possibly have made. It spells "strap in, folks, this one's a doozy", in neon letters you could see if you were on Neptune.
You can't put that kind of hype on a show, sell more tickets than most WrestleManias ever have, and then not put on a solid gold, diamond-studded show. You just can't. You don't book Wembley freakin' Stadium and then put on a 4 hour Dynamite. If you book that place, especially as an entity that hasn't played a place anywhere close to that big before, you're telling the world that you mean business and you're going to prove it.
Which means people are going to speculate, they're going to expect miracles, they're going to plan all the amazing record-breaking, world-shaking, news-dominating fantasy scenarios in their heads, and it's going to build unrealistic expectations.
So, to manage that, you give people more insight, sooner. You let them know what the show is going to look like with earlier builds, with earlier announcements, you close up the available spots for people to think "omg that's only 3 matches, I bet they're saving one for [crazy scenario that won't happen]". You tell them up front what they need to get excited about happening instead of letting them invent impossibilities and disappointments, you give them something badass to focus on that will happen.
Edit: To back up my point, here's what Adam Cole himself is quoted as saying about that announcement:
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