Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Aug 14, 2023 5:02:45 GMT -5
I don't think any of what rajaah said is 'doom-posting' at all. They state they think the show will be great, they state that they're a huge fan of AEW, they state that all they want is AEW and this event to succeed. They're allowed be disappointed without someone going on a rant about how their feelings shouldn't be taken seriously and dismissing their views as 'insufferable', 'absurd' and 'crazy'. Yeah, really, it feels like people are just kinda projecting expectations of what people on Twitter might be saying as opposed to reading actual discussion points, just so they can be exasperated by people "doomposting" or "never being happy" or whatever.
Nobody's saying it's done, nobody's saying AEW's thrown it all away, nobody's saying the show will be crap. All that's being said is that for an insane opportunity like this there could've been more effort put into showing people exactly why this is going to be an amazing show worthy of a packed out house in the biggest and most important venue in the country, a bit sooner and a bit more clearly, because some aspects of it have felt like they've been unclear and dragged their heels when they needed to be straight up and eager to show off what's coming.
I think that's a perfectly fine concern to have without having to mean that we're getting all IWC about it and calling the whole thing a failure before it's even happened. It doesn't have to be that black and white. We can simultaneously hold the opinion that it's going to be great but also that they might be leaving money on the table or that there are ways they could've handled it a bit more appropriately for the unusual and exceptional circumstances, compared to "just another PPV" (because it definitely isn't "just another PPV", it's by far their biggest one, it's of international importance, and it's their big chance to show they're right up there with anything WWE can do in one of the most meaningful sporting venues on the planet).
It is more important than All Out. I'm sorry if you're high on Punk, or you live in Chicago, or you don't think Wembley Stadium is meaningful in any way. I don't want to piss on your chips, I have no beef with Punk, or Punk's fans, or Chicago, or the United Center, it's just quite clearly not on the same level as an 80k attendance international show that everybody's going to be watching with massive anticipation as a sign of whether AEW's made it to that level or not. Works the other way around too, I went to Clash at the Castle, I expected a decent PPV, but I didn't expect it to be WrestleMania 38 at the AT&T Stadium. There's a time and a place to bring your A game, this is one of those times, and we want to see AEW do the absolute best it can with an exceptional opportunity to do that. Of course we want to see AEW coming out of this bigger, better, stronger, and more respected than ever before.
"I am concerned that this feels a bit last-minute and doesn't feel as special as the circumstances suggest it should, even two weeks out from the event" does not mean "f*** it, AEW's a failure, Tony Khan is just the worst, the roster can't live up to an event this big, and the whole thing is stupid". It just means we're nervous that there's some possibility that this isn't being treated (or at least presented) with the gravitas a show of this magnitude, for this company, on a global stage, probably deserves if it's going to be made the most of.
I still don't think the card's even finished and there are two more weeks of build to go for the show. I haven't seen anything really being SAVED for All Out, but like, Omega's likely making his All In match this Wednesday and more will likely follow that too I feel like the disappointment for what the show possibly could be is jumping a gun a bit. Like if we're a few days out, fair, but the card is still taking shape and people who are still in need of getting booked are still gonna be getting booked. Matches for it are also pretty big, and feuds that have years of stuff to already feed off of going into the matches in some respect. I wouldn't think this card will go without seeing Omega on it, or more big matches. It's likely to be a 10-12 match card and we have what four matches announced so far? There's a lot more to be had here and they're likely to go ahead and do it. I don't really think they're setting themselves up for a failure regardless, will they ever get 80K again? Who knows, it's not happened more than a half dozen times in wrestling history, but I am always a believer about seeing the full card and then seeing the show and atmosphere before I'm like "They've fumbled it"... especially when it comes to AEW's PPV track record I feel like this is being set up to be a very special show, that is much bigger in gravitas than All Out and I don't feel like that's ever been in question. Hope they deliver on the expectation, and continue building a strong card for people to witness.
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clifford
King Koopa
Shingo Takagi stan
Posts: 10,690
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Post by clifford on Aug 14, 2023 5:20:27 GMT -5
Yeah, really, it feels like people are just kinda projecting expectations of what people on Twitter might be saying as opposed to reading actual discussion points, just so they can be exasperated by people "doomposting" or "never being happy" or whatever. Nobody's saying it's done, nobody's saying AEW's thrown it all away, nobody's saying the show will be crap. All that's being said is that for an insane opportunity like this there could've been more effort put into showing people exactly why this is going to be an amazing show worthy of a packed out house in the biggest and most important venue in the country, a bit sooner and a bit more clearly, because some aspects of it have felt like they've been unclear and dragged their heels when they needed to be straight up and eager to show off what's coming. I think that's a perfectly fine concern to have without having to mean that we're getting all IWC about it and calling the whole thing a failure before it's even happened. It doesn't have to be that black and white. We can simultaneously hold the opinion that it's going to be great but also that they might be leaving money on the table or that there are ways they could've handled it a bit more appropriately for the unusual and exceptional circumstances, compared to "just another PPV" (because it definitely isn't "just another PPV", it's by far their biggest one, it's of international importance, and it's their big chance to show they're right up there with anything WWE can do in one of the most meaningful sporting venues on the planet).
It is more important than All Out. I'm sorry if you're high on Punk, or you live in Chicago, or you don't think Wembley Stadium is meaningful in any way. I don't want to piss on your chips, I have no beef with Punk, or Punk's fans, or Chicago, or the United Center, it's just quite clearly not on the same level as an 80k attendance international show that everybody's going to be watching with massive anticipation as a sign of whether AEW's made it to that level or not. Works the other way around too, I went to Clash at the Castle, I expected a decent PPV, but I didn't expect it to be WrestleMania 38 at the AT&T Stadium. There's a time and a place to bring your A game, this is one of those times, and we want to see AEW do the absolute best it can with an exceptional opportunity to do that. Of course we want to see AEW coming out of this bigger, better, stronger, and more respected than ever before. "I am concerned that this feels a bit last-minute and doesn't feel as special as the circumstances suggest it should, even two weeks out from the event" does not mean "f*** it, AEW's a failure, Tony Khan is just the worst, the roster can't live up to an event this big, and the whole thing is stupid". It just means we're nervous that there's some possibility that this isn't being treated (or at least presented) with the gravitas a show of this magnitude, for this company, on a global stage, probably deserves if it's going to be made the most of.
Yeah this sums it up just about perfect for me, thank you for verbalising it so well; this is exactly my feelings on it. I literally said in the last part of my post he was free to think what he wanted, I just needed to get how I felt off my chest. I do think the rhetoric insufferable, absurd, and crazy, and I think I'm allowed to think that myself too. I didn't call Rajaah any of those things, I don't agree with the viewpoints and think they're getting far too outlandish to say that AEW has ruined any chance they have at a big crowd again because they personally don't like a card or don't think it worthy enough for a crowd of 80K, who all themselves, have their own different opinions about what a satisfying card is They're allowed to be disappointed, I think others are also allowed to express that those feelings are exhausting, without having to check out of the thread like they seem to be doing because it's been, as I said, going around in circles for quite awhile now. Sorry if what I said was too harsh or too aggressive, it's not how I wanted to come off, but I hadn't really gotten into much of the arguments here the entire time, and this is probably why lol I suppose I'm just not of the opinion that what I'm seeing on this board and this thread specifically amounts to such a strong reaction. I feel you might be taking all the batshit and insane takes you're seeing on twitter and reddit and other places on the internet and using this thread to address 'em. I'm not trying to discourage you from giving your opinion on it all either, I just feel that the reaction doesn't stack up to the actions, at least in this thread, if you get me. But its all good man, I know you're never deliberately harsh and aggressive to specific posters, a lot of it can get lost over a text-based format.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on Aug 14, 2023 5:22:57 GMT -5
Yeah, really, it feels like people are just kinda projecting expectations of what people on Twitter might be saying as opposed to reading actual discussion points, just so they can be exasperated by people "doomposting" or "never being happy" or whatever. Nobody's saying it's done, nobody's saying AEW's thrown it all away, nobody's saying the show will be crap. All that's being said is that for an insane opportunity like this there could've been more effort put into showing people exactly why this is going to be an amazing show worthy of a packed out house in the biggest and most important venue in the country, a bit sooner and a bit more clearly, because some aspects of it have felt like they've been unclear and dragged their heels when they needed to be straight up and eager to show off what's coming. I think that's a perfectly fine concern to have without having to mean that we're getting all IWC about it and calling the whole thing a failure before it's even happened. It doesn't have to be that black and white. We can simultaneously hold the opinion that it's going to be great but also that they might be leaving money on the table or that there are ways they could've handled it a bit more appropriately for the unusual and exceptional circumstances, compared to "just another PPV" (because it definitely isn't "just another PPV", it's by far their biggest one, it's of international importance, and it's their big chance to show they're right up there with anything WWE can do in one of the most meaningful sporting venues on the planet).
It is more important than All Out. I'm sorry if you're high on Punk, or you live in Chicago, or you don't think Wembley Stadium is meaningful in any way. I don't want to piss on your chips, I have no beef with Punk, or Punk's fans, or Chicago, or the United Center, it's just quite clearly not on the same level as an 80k attendance international show that everybody's going to be watching with massive anticipation as a sign of whether AEW's made it to that level or not. Works the other way around too, I went to Clash at the Castle, I expected a decent PPV, but I didn't expect it to be WrestleMania 38 at the AT&T Stadium. There's a time and a place to bring your A game, this is one of those times, and we want to see AEW do the absolute best it can with an exceptional opportunity to do that. Of course we want to see AEW coming out of this bigger, better, stronger, and more respected than ever before. "I am concerned that this feels a bit last-minute and doesn't feel as special as the circumstances suggest it should, even two weeks out from the event" does not mean "f*** it, AEW's a failure, Tony Khan is just the worst, the roster can't live up to an event this big, and the whole thing is stupid". It just means we're nervous that there's some possibility that this isn't being treated (or at least presented) with the gravitas a show of this magnitude, for this company, on a global stage, probably deserves if it's going to be made the most of.
I still don't think the card's even finished and there are two more weeks of build to go for the show. I haven't seen anything really being SAVED for All Out, but like, Omega's likely making his All In match this Wednesday and more will likely follow that too I feel like the disappointment for what the show possibly could be is jumping a gun a bit. Like if we're a few days out, fair, but the card is still taking shape and people who are still in need of getting booked are still gonna be getting booked. Matches for it are also pretty big, and feuds that have years of stuff to already feed off of going into the matches in some respect. I wouldn't think this card will go without seeing Omega on it, or more big matches. It's likely to be a 10-12 match card and we have what four matches announced so far? There's a lot more to be had here and they're likely to go ahead and do it. I don't really think they're setting themselves up for a failure regardless, will they ever get 80K again? Who knows, it's not happened more than a half dozen times in wrestling history, but I am always a believer about seeing the full card and then seeing the show and atmosphere before I'm like "They've fumbled it"... especially when it comes to AEW's PPV track record I feel like this is being set up to be a very special show, that is much bigger in gravitas than All Out and I don't feel like that's ever been in question. Hope they deliver on the expectation, and continue building a strong card for people to witness. My issue and a lot of people issue is they are taking to long in building. Like all the matches and build shouldn't be happen in under a month and some only getting a couple weeks. This should be as the name says. All in with putting your best card forward and storylines. At this point we should already known most of the main matches are. Not Three main show and a pre show. AEW hasn't been doing a good job in building it in making sense. No reason why you Main Event guys should be having and risking injury a second match in a pre show. It looks stupid. Sure great match but its silly. The road to the 4way womens match made it look like a Tournament that the champion had to qualify because of the graphic, again looks silly. They are not putting the A game in building the matches is what I am saying. Not saying the matches will be bad. Or the final card isn't going to be good. The build up is questionable. Its like they went we sold at the start of making making 75K without a match. We don't need to do much. Lets just start throwning matches together at a month or less before it.
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ssdrivin
ALF
Claims to be squishy, has yet to be proven.
Posts: 1,042
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Post by ssdrivin on Aug 14, 2023 6:27:10 GMT -5
Yeah, really, it feels like people are just kinda projecting expectations of what people on Twitter might be saying as opposed to reading actual discussion points, just so they can be exasperated by people "doomposting" or "never being happy" or whatever.
Nobody's saying it's done, nobody's saying AEW's thrown it all away, nobody's saying the show will be crap. All that's being said is that for an insane opportunity like this there could've been more effort put into showing people exactly why this is going to be an amazing show worthy of a packed out house in the biggest and most important venue in the country, a bit sooner and a bit more clearly, because some aspects of it have felt like they've been unclear and dragged their heels when they needed to be straight up and eager to show off what's coming.
I think that's a perfectly fine concern to have without having to mean that we're getting all IWC about it and calling the whole thing a failure before it's even happened. It doesn't have to be that black and white. We can simultaneously hold the opinion that it's going to be great but also that they might be leaving money on the table or that there are ways they could've handled it a bit more appropriately for the unusual and exceptional circumstances, compared to "just another PPV" (because it definitely isn't "just another PPV", it's by far their biggest one, it's of international importance, and it's their big chance to show they're right up there with anything WWE can do in one of the most meaningful sporting venues on the planet).
It is more important than All Out. I'm sorry if you're high on Punk, or you live in Chicago, or you don't think Wembley Stadium is meaningful in any way. I don't want to piss on your chips, I have no beef with Punk, or Punk's fans, or Chicago, or the United Center, it's just quite clearly not on the same level as an 80k attendance international show that everybody's going to be watching with massive anticipation as a sign of whether AEW's made it to that level or not. Works the other way around too, I went to Clash at the Castle, I expected a decent PPV, but I didn't expect it to be WrestleMania 38 at the AT&T Stadium. There's a time and a place to bring your A game, this is one of those times, and we want to see AEW do the absolute best it can with an exceptional opportunity to do that. Of course we want to see AEW coming out of this bigger, better, stronger, and more respected than ever before.
"I am concerned that this feels a bit last-minute and doesn't feel as special as the circumstances suggest it should, even two weeks out from the event" does not mean "f*** it, AEW's a failure, Tony Khan is just the worst, the roster can't live up to an event this big, and the whole thing is stupid". It just means we're nervous that there's some possibility that this isn't being treated (or at least presented) with the gravitas a show of this magnitude, for this company, on a global stage, probably deserves if it's going to be made the most of.
I still don't think the card's even finished and there are two more weeks of build to go for the show. I haven't seen anything really being SAVED for All Out, but like, Omega's likely making his All In match this Wednesday and more will likely follow that too I feel like the disappointment for what the show possibly could be is jumping a gun a bit. Like if we're a few days out, fair, but the card is still taking shape and people who are still in need of getting booked are still gonna be getting booked. Matches for it are also pretty big, and feuds that have years of stuff to already feed off of going into the matches in some respect. I wouldn't think this card will go without seeing Omega on it, or more big matches. It's likely to be a 10-12 match card and we have what four matches announced so far? There's a lot more to be had here and they're likely to go ahead and do it. I don't really think they're setting themselves up for a failure regardless, will they ever get 80K again? Who knows, it's not happened more than a half dozen times in wrestling history, but I am always a believer about seeing the full card and then seeing the show and atmosphere before I'm like "They've fumbled it"... especially when it comes to AEW's PPV track record I feel like this is being set up to be a very special show, that is much bigger in gravitas than All Out and I don't feel like that's ever been in question. Hope they deliver on the expectation, and continue building a strong card for people to witness. Well, if there's one thing we're in agreement on, it's that this is kind of going around in circles, so I'll say this:
I agree that there's still a ton of potential in this show (ultimately the show is the show and an awesome show can make up for a mediocre build, it's the day itself that counts the most) and as you say there's a whole bunch of matches not yet announced, any of which could be the blockbuster matches that each of us (with our own preferences and favourite guys) are looking for. Or even great surprises that we didn't know we wanted. I definitely don't think that what's been announced so far means that the show sucks or that it's indicative of it being low quality. Only that I'd like to see things shaping up a bit more solidly in real quick order, now that we're getting so close to it.
I would personally like to see an Omega singles match, I'd like to see a Mox singles match too ideally (I quite liked the idea of Mox/OC), anything with Pac in it would be cool (but he's out with an injury again), Riho would be really neat to see, I'm not huge on Jericho right now but I could get into that with the right opponent. All kinds of talent and match-ups I'd be happy with or excited to be there for. But I don't like to speculate because I know it's easy to hype up something in your own head that'll feel like a letdown if/when it doesn't happen, you know? I don't want to have those wild impossible theories going into this, I want to be prepared for what's actually coming. I'm not disappointed in the show, I can't be, it hasn't happened yet, but I'd like a little more confidence that I can buy into it all the way without over-hyping it for myself.
That's why I've said the things that I've said, because I want to be excited about things that will happen, so that I don't have to guess and make stuff up, then be disappointed when I get something "good, but not what I showed up dead set on experiencing". If you show me what I should expect and tell me why I should be invested in it, I'm cool with that, I know what I'm buying into, I can set my level to where you (the company/booker) think I'm going to get at least what you set me up for, and maybe even more. Maybe that's not what people think AEW does, or should do, maybe it's a personal booking style preference, and that's OK, I know people enjoy coming up with ideas for the card and I don't want to stop people doing that, just for me personally I like to have a more concrete frame of reference to build my anticipation on.
I do expect the show to be a blast and I don't expect them to book the show entirely for my personal tastes, so as long as they don't do anything stupid (which I don't think they will), I'll still have a great time. I'm definitely down for seeing Sting, I think the MJF/Cole title match is probably going to be solid, I'm definitely not going into this expecting a miserable pile of boring wet cardboard. I just wanted a bit more of a taste of what I'm meant to be getting hyped for so I can start gearing up to go nuts for it when it comes time to be there.
As for the attendance, I dunno, I wouldn't go as far as to say it'll never happen again or that it's a freak one-off blip in the timeline of AEW that won't be repeated, but it's really impossible to know. I do hope it's the start of something even more for AEW and maybe they can have their WrestleMania with many tens of thousands of fans every year. I'm not going to pin it on them and say "if you don't match this again every year forever then you've failed", because there are things about this which mean there's pent-up demand and something about their first time at such a meaningful venue that might be lessened the next time when it's no longer fresh, but I'd like to think there's potential for it going forward, and I'm glad they're getting a shot at proving they can be on that level.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 244,181
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Aug 14, 2023 6:36:25 GMT -5
I still don't think the card's even finished and there are two more weeks of build to go for the show. I haven't seen anything really being SAVED for All Out, but like, Omega's likely making his All In match this Wednesday and more will likely follow that too I feel like the disappointment for what the show possibly could be is jumping a gun a bit. Like if we're a few days out, fair, but the card is still taking shape and people who are still in need of getting booked are still gonna be getting booked. Matches for it are also pretty big, and feuds that have years of stuff to already feed off of going into the matches in some respect. I wouldn't think this card will go without seeing Omega on it, or more big matches. It's likely to be a 10-12 match card and we have what four matches announced so far? There's a lot more to be had here and they're likely to go ahead and do it. I don't really think they're setting themselves up for a failure regardless, will they ever get 80K again? Who knows, it's not happened more than a half dozen times in wrestling history, but I am always a believer about seeing the full card and then seeing the show and atmosphere before I'm like "They've fumbled it"... especially when it comes to AEW's PPV track record I feel like this is being set up to be a very special show, that is much bigger in gravitas than All Out and I don't feel like that's ever been in question. Hope they deliver on the expectation, and continue building a strong card for people to witness. Well, if there's one thing we're in agreement on, it's that this is kind of going around in circles, so I'll say this:
I agree that there's still a ton of potential in this show (ultimately the show is the show and an awesome show can make up for a mediocre build, it's the day itself that counts the most) and as you say there's a whole bunch of matches not yet announced, any of which could be the blockbuster matches that each of us (with our own preferences and favourite guys) are looking for. Or even great surprises that we didn't know we wanted. I definitely don't think that what's been announced so far means that the show sucks or that it's indicative of it being low quality. Only that I'd like to see things shaping up a bit more solidly in real quick order, now that we're getting so close to it.
I would personally like to see an Omega singles match, I'd like to see a Mox singles match too ideally (I quite liked the idea of Mox/OC), anything with Pac in it would be cool (but he's out with an injury again), Riho would be really neat to see, I'm not huge on Jericho right now but I could get into that with the right opponent. All kinds of talent and match-ups I'd be happy with or excited to be there for. But I don't like to speculate because I know it's easy to hype up something in your own head that'll feel like a letdown if/when it doesn't happen, you know? I don't want to have those wild impossible theories going into this, I want to be prepared for what's actually coming. I'm not disappointed in the show, I can't be, it hasn't happened yet, but I'd like a little more confidence that I can buy into it all the way without over-hyping it for myself.
That's why I've said the things that I've said, because I want to be excited about things that will happen, so that I don't have to guess and make stuff up, then be disappointed when I get something "good, but not what I showed up dead set on experiencing". If you show me what I should expect and tell me why I should be invested in it, I'm cool with that, I know what I'm buying into, I can set my level to where you (the company/booker) think I'm going to get at least what you set me up for, and maybe even more. Maybe that's not what people think AEW does, or should do, maybe it's a personal booking style preference, and that's OK, I know people enjoy coming up with ideas for the card and I don't want to stop people doing that, just for me personally I like to have a more concrete frame of reference to build my anticipation on.
I do expect the show to be a blast and I don't expect them to book the show entirely for my personal tastes, so as long as they don't do anything stupid (which I don't think they will), I'll still have a great time. I'm definitely down for seeing Sting, I think the MJF/Cole title match is probably going to be solid, I'm definitely not going into this expecting a miserable pile of boring wet cardboard. I just wanted a bit more of a taste of what I'm meant to be getting hyped for so I can start gearing up to go nuts for it when it comes time to be there.
As for the attendance, I dunno, I wouldn't go as far as to say it'll never happen again or that it's a freak one-off blip in the timeline of AEW that won't be repeated, but it's really impossible to know. I do hope it's the start of something even more for AEW and maybe they can have their WrestleMania with many tens of thousands of fans every year. I'm not going to pin it on them and say "if you don't match this again every year forever then you've failed", because there are things about this which mean there's pent-up demand and something about their first time at such a meaningful venue that might be lessened the next time when it's no longer fresh, but I'd like to think there's potential for it going forward, and I'm glad they're getting a shot at proving they can be on that level.
If they plan for All In to be a big stadium show each time but in different parts of the world, I do feel like they could maintain close to this number. It all depends on how they restructure PPVs Because apparently the reason All Out wasn't really moved or cancelled is because they already had a contract with the building or something, so there's a chance the next time All In happens, All Out or this event are at a different time of the year That being said, they run a big venue in say Australia, Mexico, Puerto Rico as evidenced by Backlash would draw huge, etc, they could likely do numbers similar again depending on the arena picked. I don't think they're gonna have this in Wembley every single year (Though I expect they're gonna make going back to UK more common)
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ssdrivin
ALF
Claims to be squishy, has yet to be proven.
Posts: 1,042
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Post by ssdrivin on Aug 14, 2023 7:14:26 GMT -5
If they plan for All In to be a big stadium show each time but in different parts of the world, I do feel like they could maintain close to this number. It all depends on how they restructure PPVs Because apparently the reason All Out wasn't really moved or cancelled is because they already had a contract with the building or something, so there's a chance the next time All In happens, All Out or this event are at a different time of the year That being said, they run a big venue in say Australia, Mexico, Puerto Rico as evidenced by Backlash would draw huge, etc, they could likely do numbers similar again depending on the arena picked. I don't think they're gonna have this in Wembley every single year (Though I expect they're gonna make going back to UK more common) Oh, yeah, I don't doubt they would've done things differently if they could've, this time around. Like a few here have said, chances are they were a victim of circumstance and unfortunate timings of things to work around, probably after an initial plan wasn't possible any longer. I'd bet my lunch that they'd never book All In and All Out that close together on purpose.
It probably would keep it fresh to move around from country to country for the big deal show, yeah, I think it'd be a differentiator too, nobody really does that. Maybe there's good reasons, I dunno, I'm not a logistics or paperwork kinda guy, but it'd be a cool twist to have it be an international event like that. Just... maybe leave out the black cabs and phone boxes, or kangaroos and boomerangs, and all that kind of stuff. Celebrate the locality, by all means, but hacky national stereotypes are really boring at this point. We get it, British people love the Queen, Australians are upside-down, Canadians keep talking about a singular item of hard-wearing footwear, Mexicans are... well, i don't think I need to elaborate further.
As a Brit, obviously I'd like it if they kept coming back here, though I don't need to hog one specific PPV to call our own, just don't forget to come back from time to time. I don't expect they would, because Tony has connections here, but it'd suck if we only got this one big show and then they don't come back again for another 5 years.
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Post by Cieto on Aug 14, 2023 7:34:13 GMT -5
As the card stands now, im very happy with the build/matches put together for it so far. Main thing for me is most of them have actually been built-up on the weekly episodes and haven't just been thrown together for the sake of a huge stadium show.
I dont necessarily care to even showcase UK talent outside of ones signed to AEW, or even make this some sort of forbidden door 2.5. As long as it represents the peak of what I watch weekly, that all I ask.
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deezy
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,723
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Post by deezy on Aug 14, 2023 7:54:54 GMT -5
I don't think any of what rajaah said is 'doom-posting' at all. They state they think the show will be great, they state that they're a huge fan of AEW, they state that all they want is AEW and this event to succeed. They're allowed be disappointed without someone going on a rant about how their feelings shouldn't be taken seriously and dismissing their views as 'insufferable', 'absurd' and 'crazy'. Yeah, really, it feels like people are just kinda projecting expectations of what people on Twitter might be saying as opposed to reading actual discussion points, just so they can be exasperated by people "doomposting" or "never being happy" or whatever.
Nobody's saying it's done, nobody's saying AEW's thrown it all away, nobody's saying the show will be crap. All that's being said is that for an insane opportunity like this there could've been more effort put into showing people exactly why this is going to be an amazing show worthy of a packed out house in the biggest and most important venue in the country, a bit sooner and a bit more clearly, because some aspects of it have felt like they've been unclear and dragged their heels when they needed to be straight up and eager to show off what's coming.
I think that's a perfectly fine concern to have without having to mean that we're getting all IWC about it and calling the whole thing a failure before it's even happened. It doesn't have to be that black and white. We can simultaneously hold the opinion that it's going to be great but also that they might be leaving money on the table or that there are ways they could've handled it a bit more appropriately for the unusual and exceptional circumstances, compared to "just another PPV" (because it definitely isn't "just another PPV", it's by far their biggest one, it's of international importance, and it's their big chance to show they're right up there with anything WWE can do in one of the most meaningful sporting venues on the planet).
It is more important than All Out. I'm sorry if you're high on Punk, or you live in Chicago, or you don't think Wembley Stadium is meaningful in any way. I don't want to piss on your chips, I have no beef with Punk, or Punk's fans, or Chicago, or the United Center, it's just quite clearly not on the same level as an 80k attendance international show that everybody's going to be watching with massive anticipation as a sign of whether AEW's made it to that level or not. Works the other way around too, I went to Clash at the Castle, I expected a decent PPV, but I didn't expect it to be WrestleMania 38 at the AT&T Stadium. There's a time and a place to bring your A game, this is one of those times, and we want to see AEW do the absolute best it can with an exceptional opportunity to do that. Of course we want to see AEW coming out of this bigger, better, stronger, and more respected than ever before.
"I am concerned that this feels a bit last-minute and doesn't feel as special as the circumstances suggest it should, even two weeks out from the event" does not mean "f*** it, AEW's a failure, Tony Khan is just the worst, the roster can't live up to an event this big, and the whole thing is stupid". It just means we're nervous that there's some possibility that this isn't being treated (or at least presented) with the gravitas a show of this magnitude, for this company, on a global stage, probably deserves if it's going to be made the most of.
Perfectly said ! I haven't seen any "doom posting" here or anyone's opinion or post that deserved to be ridiculed after just reading the first line and not the rest of it. I agree with others that say this isn't just another ppv and shouldn't be treated as such. This is such an awesome opportunity and they have to take advantage of this ( not saying they're not,just speaking in general ). The build hasn't match the magnitude that this show deserves. That's just my opinion, I will more than likely order this ppv, mostly because of Sting and the spectacle but the rest of the card so far doesn't have me too hyped. Cole- MJF I'm definitely looking forward to though.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Aug 14, 2023 10:20:41 GMT -5
Why is there often this weird air of hostility you're met with if you dare to not be fully onboard with an AEW card/match/wrestler?
Go to any Wrestlemania thread. Look at the posts 2 weeks before the show, a month before the show, 3 months before the show. People spend the whole time debating over the rumored and eventually official matches and whether they're happy with them or not and no one gets called insufferable or accused of hand-wringing or whatever language is being used here to talk down to anyone questioning this card. Hell, some of the same people complaining about the complaining here are the same people who are way more negative in those threads but I guess somehow that's different?
Frankly, most people are going relatively easy. If WWE's biggest star had a match on Raw and beat someone cleanly then a month later for their biggest show ever that was suddenly the match I just know people would be appalled at that booking. People are talking about whether Kenny will have a singles or tag match but Punk/Joe is the biggest head scratcher to me. Why did they give it away on TV with a clean finish if it was going to be one of the marquee matches on this show weeks later? That match had 2 key selling points (their first match in nearly 20 years + Punk had never beaten Joe in any of their 03-05 matches) and neither of them are applicable now because they had to wrestle on Collision for some reason.
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Post by polarbearpete on Aug 14, 2023 10:40:52 GMT -5
Why is there often this weird air of hostility you're met with if you dare to not be fully onboard with an AEW card/match/wrestler? Go to any Wrestlemania thread. Look at the posts 2 weeks before the show, a month before the show, 3 months before the show. People spend the whole time debating over the rumored and eventually official matches and whether they're happy with them or not and no one gets called insufferable or accused of hand-wringing or whatever language is being used here to talk down to anyone questioning this card. Hell, some of the same people complaining about the complaining here are the same people who are way more negative in those threads but I guess somehow that's different? Frankly, most people are going relatively easy. If WWE's biggest star had a match on Raw and beat someone cleanly then a month later for their biggest show ever that was suddenly the match I just know people would be appalled at that booking. People are talking about whether Kenny will have a singles or tag match but Punk/Joe is the biggest head scratcher to me. Why did they give it away on TV with a clean finish if it was going to be one of the marquee matches on this show weeks later? That match had 2 key selling points (their first match in nearly 20 years + Punk had never beaten Joe in any of their 03-05 matches) and neither of them are applicable now because they had to wrestle on Collision for some reason. Yeah the hostility you’re talking about is very reminiscent of early AEW threads when people were seemingly afraid to let any criticism be posted without telling others they were crazy or baiting or concern trolling. All I see in this thread is fairly mild, well-reasoned takes on why some people think they have dropped the ball or at least disappointed some with the build and match card so far.
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Post by brettappedout (BLM) on Aug 14, 2023 10:44:08 GMT -5
Not to get in the way of everyone going back and forth lol I was just wondering if this is going to be the official show thread or not.
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ssdrivin
ALF
Claims to be squishy, has yet to be proven.
Posts: 1,042
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Post by ssdrivin on Aug 14, 2023 10:54:14 GMT -5
Not to get in the way of everyone going back and forth lol I was just wondering if this is going to be the official show thread or not. I guess it kind of is, for now at least, since there isn't a proper one.
Probably not a bad idea to make a clean one though, if the mods are cool with that.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Aug 14, 2023 10:55:17 GMT -5
Not to get in the way of everyone going back and forth lol I was just wondering if this is going to be the official show thread or not. I think when there’s more of a card, I’ll try and set up a show thread so maybe by Wednesday? Just so people don’t have to Wade through pages and pages of discussion to get to the actual show.
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Post by ace on Aug 14, 2023 11:30:58 GMT -5
Why is there often this weird air of hostility you're met with if you dare to not be fully onboard with an AEW card/match/wrestler? Because of the cult
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Aug 14, 2023 11:37:03 GMT -5
Why is there often this weird air of hostility you're met with if you dare to not be fully onboard with an AEW card/match/wrestler? Because of the cult Nope, not doing this. If we’re going to try and boil points (which people have said time and time again that they get on both sides, they just disagree), then it’s going to be really hard to keep discussions open here.
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ssdrivin
ALF
Claims to be squishy, has yet to be proven.
Posts: 1,042
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Post by ssdrivin on Aug 14, 2023 11:38:21 GMT -5
Just got an update from Ticketmaster, doors open at 3:30pm and the show starts at 5pm (the event page originally said 6pm).
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Fade
Patti Mayonnaise
Posts: 38,414
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Post by Fade on Aug 14, 2023 11:50:43 GMT -5
Shouldn't take much to top WM 32 quality wise, at least. All this talk actually made me try to watch 32 last night and woooof, I couldn’t.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Aug 14, 2023 12:03:07 GMT -5
All this talk actually made me try to watch 32 last night and woooof, I couldn’t. The ladder match opener is good (and I watched in a bar, only guy in there marking for Zack Ryder winning). That’s the only thing people need to watch.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Aug 14, 2023 12:35:33 GMT -5
All this talk actually made me try to watch 32 last night and woooof, I couldn’t. The ladder match opener is good (and I watched in a bar, only guy in there marking for Zack Ryder winning). That’s the only thing people need to watch. The triple threat women's title match is excellent
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Post by rajaah on Aug 14, 2023 12:47:48 GMT -5
I'm also in the camp of feeling disappointed that they haven't made this an event worthy of what they've accomplished (in spite of themselves). Makes me think there's a good chance they'll never ever pull a crowd like this again after dropping the ball here. I'm sure the show will be a great watch and have all the workrate and everything but it needs to be throwing everything at the wall. With 200 or so people on the roster I don't buy that they have to "hold back" to have something for All Out later. They could easily put on two supercards in a row. Hell they've got the Punk vs MJF (or Cole) unification match in their pocket and that could easily sell All Out by itself. This show really needed to have Punk vs Omega in the main event and top billing. No ifs ands or buts about it. MJF/Cole as the co-main, Bucks vs FTR, Orange vs Moxley, Eddie vs Claudio. Hangman/Ibushi/Miro vs Takeshita/Yuta/PAC to get those guys on the card, Jericho vs Ospreay, Saraya vs Shida (yeah I'd go singles). Add a proper build and I think THAT card is worthy of 90k people in the building (and would achieve that). Also have a feeling they're gonna end this show with Adam Cole winning the title and turning heel in the process. Ending the show with a big heel win (as opposed to a raucous celebration) is not the way to go, leave that for Dynamite or All Out. Obviously I have a bunch of worries and concerns for this, but I've been following AEW since day one and have seen almost all of their shows (have missed literally one PPV, 3 Dynamites, and 3 Rampages since they started) and right now it feels an awful lot like watching someone you follow finally "make it" and then just sort of fumble in the endzone. Nothing has even happened yet, so talking about "They may never draw a crowd like this again due to dropping the ball like this" is absurd, this thread's become the epitome of exhausting to look at with all the hand wringing and panic over WHAT HASN'T EVEN HAPPENED YET. Like what the f*** are we even talking about anymore? It's a disappointment to you? I guess? You're speaking for 80,000 people who, for all you know, are quite happy with what the card looks like so far, and is very excited for the experience. You're literally doomposting, this is the definition of what that is, posting a bunch of crazy what if's and saying they've already failed before a card is already fully assembled and a show has even happened. We've reached like the peak here, it makes any discussion that's been had in this thread lately almost impossible. AEW finally reaches the pinnacle of the sport with this event when it comes to attendance alone, one of the biggest events in the history of pro wrestling, and we STILL have people just slamming "NO FUN ALLOWED" signs on the lawn. Feel free to think that, by the way, you're free to not be impressed by the card or whatever. I'm just at the point where I think it's absolutely insufferable as someone who has watched the thread arguments evolve from "They haven't announced the card yet, it's so over" to "They've announced the card, I think it's lackluster, it's so over", sorry for this turning into a bit of a rant but I know I'm not alone in feeling this way, I'm beginning to think there are some people who simply can't let a goal post sit where it is when it comes to this company as a whole, there always has to be something wrong or something that's gonna hurt the company, instead of just letting something, anything, actually play out. I understand where you're coming from because I'm also defensive of the company (it is unfortunately necessary with all of the vapid criticism they get), but I'm not speaking for 80,000 people. Literally started it with "I'm in the camp of..." which means I'm agreeing with people who feel like this is a bit of a wasted opportunity, not speaking for everyone. Wrestlemania has conditioned fans to expect "Wrestlemania-type" builds for things like this, and we don't have that here. Feels like a ball-drop even though nothing has happened yet because the hype factor just hasn't been what we expected this whole time. I was more hyped the day tickets went on sale than I am two weeks out. I think the biggest issue is that there's this largely-unsaid sense that the idea the fans have for the show isn't the same idea Tony Khan has. The sense that to him it's just another Forbidden Door type special event, to us it's "their Wrestlemania 3" and a worldwide coming out party and so forth.
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