When does GUNTHER reach misery booking territory?

[fw91]

He's exceeded 300 days as ic champ and I don't see him losing it too soon. We've seen complaints about misery booking with Bianca and Roman (to be fair Roman's run has gone on for 3 years) But Gunther gets a pass. Is it because he has always been held in high regard by the iwc? Is the ic title better suited for a long reign then a world champ? And even if he does have a pass, when will he reach the point of misery booking?

[Friday Night SmackOwn]

the fact that in his matches, the opponent comes out looking good even in defeat and that Gunther's wins are just relatively clean without extra bullshit seems to help his case.

[06vwgti]

WHen he wins like a coward like Roman does for 3 years, so far he hasn't

[Friday Night SmackOwn]

Apr 12, 2023 23:15:31 GMT -5 06vwgti said:

WHen he wins like a coward like Roman does for 3 years, so far he hasn't

and if he has won with help from Ludwig & Giovanni, it's probably just been all of one or two times. Not a recurring thing like Romey-Rome.

["Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik]

I feel like if he faces Sheamus again, he has to lose. Otherwise it's fine. But you can't beat the same dude over and over without it getting frustrating.

[fw91]

Apr 12, 2023 23:15:31 GMT -5 06vwgti said:

WHen he wins like a coward like Roman does for 3 years, so far he hasn't

But Bianca doesn't win like a coward. Or do the "rules" apply differently to faces?

[coleslaw]

The only misery booking involved with Gunther is being booked as his opponent and having every blood vessel in your chest burst

[06vwgti]

Apr 12, 2023 23:17:01 GMT -5 fw91 said:

Apr 12, 2023 23:15:31 GMT -5 06vwgti said:

WHen he wins like a coward like Roman does for 3 years, so far he hasn't

But Bianca doesn't win like a coward. Or do the "rules" apply differently to faces?

Bianca is a heel masquerading as a face

[gritizen]

I think his lack of PPV matches/feuds contributes to it. He's only had two title defenses on PPV and his only real feud has been with Sheamus. Everything else is random title matches on Smackdown.

Also, yeah him being the IC champ helps him steer away from misery booking. It still a secondary championship, no matter how hard they try to make it prestigious. It will never be the primary focus of the divison. You can lose to Gunther and still move on to better things. Roman or Bianca, losing to them means you're going down the ladder and moving on to something less important.

[theironyuppie]

I think it's the greater variety of his matches that makes the difference. Roman matches (as good as they are) come down to lengthy ref bumps and Bloodline interference, and Bianca matches have a pretty obvious formula by now. It's harder to feel it's misery booking if you're not seeing the same thing over and over.

[A Little Doo Doo]

I love the reign (he's actually my favorite IC champ ever), but I hope he drops it to Sheamus at MITB.

[schma]

Apr 12, 2023 23:17:01 GMT -5 fw91 said:

Apr 12, 2023 23:15:31 GMT -5 06vwgti said:

WHen he wins like a coward like Roman does for 3 years, so far he hasn't

But Bianca doesn't win like a coward. Or do the "rules" apply differently to faces?

There's not really a hard and fast set of rules and the issues with Bianca's and Roman's reigns are different. Bianca never sells the threat of her opponents and dominates the majority of her matches. However, her reign is also suffering because of the shallowness of the division. A long reign suffers for the women because there are not a lot of people to begin with and few of them are presented as main event level. Hell, she took out a faction solo in one title defence and barely broke a sweat.

With Roman, it's been 3 years and all of his matches go the same way. Ref bump, face pins him but no one is there to count it, ucey interference, lol Roman wins, no one calls him out for constantly cheating, he gets treated as a world beater.

Gunther on the other hand is a fairly fresh person as far as TV time. He also has a lot of legit great matches. Last year he had what many consider the match of the year and my understanding is that the triple threat at mania was awesome as well.

With Roman, the bloodline is also all over smackdown in a way that imperium is most definitely not.

[stoptheclocks]

I don't think there's any great mystery to it. If you're a fan of Gunther, then it's not misery booking to see him win.

It's always a lot more subjective than people are willing to admit.

[Final Countdown Jones]

Apr 13, 2023 1:33:18 GMT -5 stoptheclocks said:

I don't think there's any great mystery to it. If you're a fan of Gunther, then it's not misery booking to see him win.

It's always a lot more subjective than people are willing to admit.

Sure, but I think conversely, all this talk of 'passes' and 'why do you like this thing and not this other thing' gets treated like subjectivity has some kind of inherent hypocrisy or double standard. People can find someone's run miserable even if they're a fan of them because the material isn't good, and people can outline why a reign is one they enjoy because it has things that aren't even necessarily inherent to that person's reign, but are just things they value as being things a good title reign has. I think if you polled people broadly, with no context or specifics of any given reign, on what they want to see in a long title reign, a lot of the stuff being brought up in this thread about making opponents look good, clean wins, and varied matches, are all going to be highly suggested things.

[Lizuka #BLM]

At least dude has minions who can take losses for him every once in awhile, that in its own right helps a lot.

That said I can't see any reason unless it's to drop the belt to Sheamus at Money in the Bank for him to have retained at Mania. He's over, he's positioned as a major threat, he didn't need to take the pin, he's beaten everyone there really is of interest for him to beat at the moment, it feels like he just retained because everything must be a record.

[Legion]

Gunther has no where to go.

Gunther/Roman isnt happening.

So he stays top of the midcard, a threat in waiting. With a belt.

[UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm]

I’d really like to see nakamura come back and take the title and hold it for a long ass time too but to answer the question, not any time soon

gunther should have that title until the Cody/roman thing is nearing a resolution

[ThankGodForSidJustice]

I would say being newer, not being as much of a focal point, and yes being a big smark favorite are all factors as far as his reign not being bitched about as much. Also his reign simply hasn't come nowhere near the ridiculousness of Roman's both in length and purpose.

Gunther's reign has gotten a little long in the tooth but I can see a point in still keeping it on him. Keep building up this newish big heel as being an unbeatable machine so then it puts over whoever beats him big time. With Roman there's literally no reason he should still be champion. There's nothing left to do with him story wise and they keep having to repeat "dissension in the Bloodline" nonsense. He's only champion because.......I have no freaking clue. With that said I think they should have Gunther drop it fairly soon as then it will also start risking getting tedious as well.

[J is Justice]

He's kind of reached it for me. I'm just sick of these endless title reigns.

[King Devitt and the Woke Mob]

Apr 13, 2023 1:33:18 GMT -5 stoptheclocks said:

I don't think there's any great mystery to it. If you're a fan of Gunther, then it's not misery booking to see him win.

It's always a lot more subjective than people are willing to admit.

It's less being a "fan of ______ " and more "fan of how ______ is booked" in addition.

If Bianca had the same type of reign as Gunther where:
She had varied and interesting feuds
Put on banger matches where she made her opponents look like a million bucks.
Look like she fought her ass off for that win.
Sold her opponents as threats, or serious contenders....

We'd be having this exact same conversation about Bianca Belair in another thread.

If Roman Mahal did those things above, his reign would be a lot more tolerable.

It's a question of how it is, not who it is.