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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Apr 19, 2023 22:27:33 GMT -5
No the problem here is that WWE doesn't deserve a single cent of it, and they held the entire concept of wrestlers streaming hostage for several years just to reach this deal where they were getting money from it. That's the problem here. WWE shouldn't be getting any cut from anyone's money for any of this. Well guess what? It looks like the split may actually be even better than expected (50/45/5) for talent. Like mentioned before, most splits are 50/50 now with Twitch partners and affiliates. If WWE somehow managed to get their talent a better split than that, then people shouldn't be bitching about WWE "holding Twitch stuff hostage". Especially with Twitch being as hardline as they are towards their partners and affiliates normally. I'm going to put this in bold text to emphasize how big of a deal this actually is: If WWE wasn't involved now, but still let wrestlers stream, they (the wrestlers) would only be taking home 50% of each sub. WWE working with Twitch now has made it so the wrestlers are actually making MORE through Twitch.This is a very big deal, and while WWE was awful for banning them from streaming for awhile, that no longer seems to be the case, and its okay to give WWE some credit where credit is due. I mean everyone reporting on this right now is sasying different stuff, but but I will say that if somehow WWE got twitch to agree to higher payouts for their wrestlers, that is very good, but that they also didn't need to cut streaming out for two and a half years. For any wrestler who was streaming, they lost two and a half years of that revenue; if they can take even a 70/30 split of that money it would still take years of extra streaming as a WWE wrestler to make back the money they lost out on from not being able to stream. This potentially being WWE doing something good for once doesn't offset the degree to which they overreached well before the year and a half where they said "Oh okay we'll do some bargaining on your behalf and see what we can make happen". I don't think the ethical issue just goes away because now yay money |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Apr 19, 2023 22:41:30 GMT -5
Also I have to wonder how this news works against the backdrop of the news from a couple years ago that WWE also counts any money you make through non-WWE sources against the money they pay you, with word that Xavier's G4 hosting work was subsidizing his WWE talent contract. Even if they negotiated a better deal for wrestlers, do they actually see that money, or does that just save WWE money they won't have to pay themselves because now you, the twitch viewer supporting your favorite wrestlers, are kindly subsidizing the billion dollar company so they don't need to pay the people who bleed for them.
Because I never heard shit about that little nugget going away.
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Post by IgnahtaSempria on Apr 20, 2023 0:06:51 GMT -5
Now, I'm not a business guy, but this whole thing is confusing me a little on one thing: what exactly is WWE doing that justifies them getting a cut? Like, the streamer/streaming site relationship is pretty obvious: streaming site gives streamer platform to work, streamer gives site content. Equal relationship (or at least, it should be). But adding WWE management into this relationship puts a little extra wrinkle in the situation.
What is WWE adding to this relationship? What is WWE doing that earns them 5% of Twitch's revenue on their wrestlers? Is it advertising? Are they investing in the platform? Or are they literally just getting paid by Twitch without contribute anything?
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on Apr 20, 2023 1:47:10 GMT -5
No the problem here is that WWE doesn't deserve a single cent of it, and they held the entire concept of wrestlers streaming hostage for several years just to reach this deal where they were getting money from it. That's the problem here. WWE shouldn't be getting any cut from anyone's money for any of this. Well guess what? It looks like the split may actually be even better than expected (50/45/5) for talent. Like mentioned before, most splits are 50/50 now with Twitch partners and affiliates. If WWE somehow managed to get their talent a better split than that, then people shouldn't be bitching about WWE "holding Twitch stuff hostage". Especially with Twitch being as hardline as they are towards their partners and affiliates normally. I'm going to put this in bold text to emphasize how big of a deal this actually is: If WWE wasn't involved now, but still let wrestlers stream, they (the wrestlers) would only be taking home 50% of each sub. WWE working with Twitch now has made it so the wrestlers are actually making MORE through Twitch.This is a very big deal, and while WWE was awful for banning them from streaming for awhile, that no longer seems to be the case, and its okay to give WWE some credit where credit is due. Yeah huge credit. It would be hard for each wrestler to cut an individual deal like that but they all benefit when it's negotiated together. Maybe it's something the wrestlers could learn from, a sort of collective bargaining they could do in a unified way. |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Apr 20, 2023 2:30:19 GMT -5
Like just to lay this out here, say that twitch gives WWE wrestlers a 70% cut of subscriptions. twitch, a money loser even with its operating costs heavily subsidized by its parent company owning the servers and infrastructure it uses, that has proven time and again it has no desire to pay for top talent, agreed to give WWE a rate they don't give the highest earning streams on their site anymore. A 70/25/5 split to wrestlers, twitch, and WWE respectively. We'll give that hypothetical.
WWE wrestlers could not stream for two and a half years. Thirty months. Let's lowball the numbers hard just so they're easy to understand, but these numbers will scale up regardless. Say a wrestler streaming before WWE pulled the plug on this pulled in $20k a month in subs. They took half of that, so they got ten thousand dollars a month. They were not allowed to stream for thirty months, so that is $300,000 of income that WWE forbade wrestlers from making on their own time with what were literally only garbage justifications people tried to cook up in their defense. 300,000. Now they can stream! And they've got a sweet 70% take now thanks to WWE cutting a deal on their behalf that is so amazing twitch agreed to give them the sweetheartest of deals. They now take $14,000 a month from their 20 grand subscription income. That means this deal will pay off for the wrestlers and make up for the time they lost in seventy five months! If a wrestler spends the next six and a half years under WWE contract and continues streaming, they will make back the money from the lost months and finally be past the break-even point on that deal, able now to benefit directly and with new, more money from their deal.
If it's, say, 55% instead, well, it'll take them 25 years of being a WWE-contracted wrestler, at which point statistically speaking, they won't be. Great news for people starting in WWE who get to do this. Absolutely terrible news for the people who had the company they aren't actually employed by deny them the ability to work an unrelated job in their free time and make further income for two and a half years. Even before getting into the question of if twitch money will be paid out against what WWE was going to pay them.
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Ryushinku
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Post by Ryushinku on Apr 20, 2023 5:51:00 GMT -5
This is a better situation than they had before. Good.
I hope it improves further.
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Post by polarbearpete on Apr 21, 2023 8:53:53 GMT -5
Now, I'm not a business guy, but this whole thing is confusing me a little on one thing: what exactly is WWE doing that justifies them getting a cut? Like, the streamer/streaming site relationship is pretty obvious: streaming site gives streamer platform to work, streamer gives site content. Equal relationship (or at least, it should be). But adding WWE management into this relationship puts a little extra wrinkle in the situation. What is WWE adding to this relationship? What is WWE doing that earns them 5% of Twitch's revenue on their wrestlers? Is it advertising? Are they investing in the platform? Or are they literally just getting paid by Twitch without contribute anything? They’re allowing talent to use their WWE names on the Twitch channels. And according to Meltzer they brokered a deal to get talent more than 50% of the revenue (so higher than the usual 50/50 split). |
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Post by polarbearpete on Apr 21, 2023 8:59:18 GMT -5
Like just to lay this out here, say that twitch gives WWE wrestlers a 70% cut of subscriptions. twitch, a money loser even with its operating costs heavily subsidized by its parent company owning the servers and infrastructure it uses, that has proven time and again it has no desire to pay for top talent, agreed to give WWE a rate they don't give the highest earning streams on their site anymore. A 70/25/5 split to wrestlers, twitch, and WWE respectively. We'll give that hypothetical. WWE wrestlers could not stream for two and a half years. Thirty months. Let's lowball the numbers hard just so they're easy to understand, but these numbers will scale up regardless. Say a wrestler streaming before WWE pulled the plug on this pulled in $20k a month in subs. They took half of that, so they got ten thousand dollars a month. They were not allowed to stream for thirty months, so that is $300,000 of income that WWE forbade wrestlers from making on their own time with what were literally only garbage justifications people tried to cook up in their defense. 300,000. Now they can stream! And they've got a sweet 70% take now thanks to WWE cutting a deal on their behalf that is so amazing twitch agreed to give them the sweetheartest of deals. They now take $14,000 a month from their 20 grand subscription income. That means this deal will pay off for the wrestlers and make up for the time they lost in seventy five months! If a wrestler spends the next six and a half years under WWE contract and continues streaming, they will make back the money from the lost months and finally be past the break-even point on that deal, able now to benefit directly and with new, more money from their deal. If it's, say, 55% instead, well, it'll take them 25 years of being a WWE-contracted wrestler, at which point statistically speaking, they won't be. Great news for people starting in WWE who get to do this. Absolutely terrible news for the people who had the company they aren't actually employed by deny them the ability to work an unrelated job in their free time and make further income for two and a half years. Even before getting into the question of if twitch money will be paid out against what WWE was going to pay them. I don’t think anyone’s arguing they’re better off now than if they’d been allowed to do it the whole time. Just that moving forward this is great for them. Both can be true. |
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Post by BradMKE on Apr 21, 2023 9:37:41 GMT -5
Twitch is getting desperate with competitors like Kick trying to snatch their bigger streamers. Not surprising they'd give big WWE names their "premier" partner rates.
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Post by mistery on Apr 21, 2023 10:20:15 GMT -5
Twitch is getting desperate with competitors like Kick trying to snatch their bigger streamers. Not surprising they'd give big WWE names their "premier" partner rates. Twitch has generally been moving away from the "premier" rate thing. And Kick's biggest streamer they took from Twitch supposedly is Adin Ross who is uh...an absolutely horrible person. So I doubt Twitch is losing much sleep over it. |
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