Adam Cole/MJF Bromance Discussion Thread

[Dub H]

Jul 20, 2023 15:02:22 GMT -5 Bo Rida said:

Poor FTR, they're meant to the ones with old school approach but Cole and particularly MJF are getting the biggest pops with the most basic wrestling 101 stuff.

I wonder if MJF will actually bring that up in a promo.

Nobody is more old school than FTR right now.

They are buddying up and defending the biggest toxic main eventer in the company. Nothing more old school than thaat.

[KME]

Jul 20, 2023 15:55:29 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

To reiterate, I think the key here is that even if we do end up with face Cole vs. heel MJF for the title at one of the upcoming PPVs (and, let's face it, a bit more of this build and that will be a big money match, I don't see them passing it up for too long) they have to make sure they get there without it just boiling down to Max playing Cole for a patsy all along. Whatever brings them to the match needs to be something where, again, one of Max's character flaws just keeps him from being fully happy, and he does something in the heat of the moment that he passes off as "oh, yeah, I was gonna do that all along!", but we should be able to tell that he's actually gutted about it (something that MJF the actor is fully capable of expressing, I think). Having him react so strongly to Cole touching the belt was a sign of that; this man isn't always some evil schemer, he's also just incredibly insecure and has major trust issues that can cause him to fly off the handle and ruin a good thing, and Cole got a glimpse of that.

Thinking about it, when he's played the crowd before it was first pretending he was Cody's buddy (though it was pretty obvious he was still heel in all of that), then it was playing the crowd before beating Moxley. In both cases that was him manipulating and lying about his intentions as a means of getting himself up the ranks, first by using an EVP to get his foot into the upper card, and then by riding the crowd's reaction to the world title, itself. But now he's at the top of the mountain, and maybe he began this thinking he'd play the crowd again before sticking the knife in Cole, but maybe he's also realizing that it actually is lonely at the top, and maybe this time, if he does sink the dagger in the back, it won't be anything that pulls him any higher, because where else is there for him to go? He might still end up attacking Cole, might cut a promo swearing that was his plan all along, but something will have spurred it on not because he's just a dick, but because he's damaged and hasn't worked through his issues yet.

Basically, the friendship has to have turned into something genuine, Max can still screw it all up, but this has to be the one where it takes him some place new. Losing this friendship (or at least temporarily suspending it, can always reunite later, right?) can be the impetus to really make him dive deeper into being "the Devil" and to give in to that self-loathing that's always been right beneath the surface with this character, rather than always being able to uphold the spoiled rich kid facade. Send him to his lowest, and you ironically open the door to giving him an actual redemption arc once someone (Eddie Kingston in NYC, pls and thnx) knocks him off the throne.

Jul 20, 2023 13:12:32 GMT -5 KME said:

Loved everything they did again last night, I usually hate most dancing in wrestling and mash up themes and yet absolutely adored both last night, everything they do just makes me smile. It doesn't have a long shelf life perhaps but there are ways around just having one turn on the other and having Max go back to being a guy without any friends. They keep showing Roddy out in the cold every week so I think there's a chance he costs them their tag title match, either inadvertently or otherwise, which would give them a little longer to still be friends, doubling down that both guys were being genuine and it wasn't just about winning the tag titles, could also buy Tony some time to figure out what to do if he decides to move away from his original plan. That'd be what I would do...that or just have them actually win.

Quite incredible that they had a phenomenal half an hour draw and have been involved in some of the most fun, compelling TV in AEW almost every week since and yet the result is nobody really wants to see the rematch yet 🤣

Ooh, I think you might've nailed it; Roddy doesn't trust Max, still cares about Cole, does something (probably) inadvertently that costs them the titles, Max is justifiably furious, Cole wants to defend his longtime friend...and he inadvertently ends up breaking Max's heart, because he sees Cole's and Strong's friendship and can't help but think "I thought we were friends, but he doesn't care about ME the same way he does Roddy. He must hate me, he's been faking this whole thing; after all I'm terrible, aren't I? @#$% him for making me think like this!"

Then a later potential MJF beatdown of Cole isn't him smirking and acting like he had the great plan all along; a potential MJF beatdown of Cole is instead an act of sadness, heartbreak, and self-loathing. Can even have Cole later point it out in some way, that the good friend is in there, that Max just has to be willing to accept other people...while still vowing to beat the shit out of him, of course.

Again, I'm saying all this because I don't see any way they just don't book MJF vs. Cole for the title at some point; it basically has to happen, and the more heat going into the match the hotter ticket it'll be. I'm just looking at a way you can book it without things immediately reverting to status quo, and in a way that opens the door to MJF finally growing past his worst demons somewhere in the near future. Just keeping him and Cole together for good likely doesn't fully work; feels like one of those moments where you have to break the audience's heart at some point, even if the intention down the road is to mend it.

That point about MJF's reaction to Cole with the title is the one for me, saw a few people interpret it that it simply showed MJF's true colours and therefore he'll turn like he always planned to but I think that's only half true. I think they can play it, and perhaps it was intended this way, that MJF genuinely sees Cole as his friend now and thinks Cole is the one using him and just wants his title as opposed to it being his mask slipping and his dark side coming out when it's actually just his insecurity coming to the surface.

Definitely agree with booking the match something like the way you say, I think if either turns it should feel like they reluctantly did so, but the Roddy element to it just feels so key to me, I think they can split them due to something he does and have Cole end up as number one contender anyway without an explicit turn and build intrigue into what will happen in the latter stages of the build and during the match with two guys who never actually wanted to lose their friendship. MJF is way too popular and has been a couple of times now in under a year to just have him go back to a dick heel (as good as he is at that, like legit best in the world at it) plus has so much ability to grow his character, yes there'd be mega heat for him turning on Cole but I think there'd be just as many sighs of disappointment. I'd be really gutted if they went with one of them just turning on each other to say "gotcha!" while there's a jealous friend of Cole's lurking in the background giving them an obvious out, at least initially.

[Instant Classic]

Jul 20, 2023 14:34:30 GMT -5 The Legendary Ring Troll {BLM} said:

Jul 19, 2023 21:14:49 GMT -5 Instant Classic said:

This was the first segment they had that wasn’t that funny being at a restaurant.

I felt it was kind of off, too, and after going back and rewatching it, I’m confident it’s because of Adam Cole. The “maybe if I breathe through my mouth” part and the “I want the pineapple” were VERY BTEish, reminded me of Matt Jackson a lot. That’s not to say that’s a bad thing, I like BTE, but it was out of place here.

The first two segments they had in the gym and playing video games was really funny. This one was more so forced comedy imo.

[Mr Mario Mario]

I’ll agree this weeks segment came across as being a tad forced yeah just in my opinion

MJFs reaction when the mash up music played was gold though

My daughter absolutely loved the dance-off and made us recreate it afterwards and she is softening up on MJF these days. Poor thing, I know my heart is going to be broken by the sudden yet inevitable betrayal but she won’t see it coming

Also Roddy is defo turning which is why I think MJF will revert to his default which is a shame because smarmy/fake sounding MJF is much more entertaining than try hard edge lord MJF

[markymark]

Jul 20, 2023 17:01:40 GMT -5 Mr Mario Mario said:

I’ll agree this weeks segment came across as being a tad forced yeah just in my opinion

MJFs reaction when the mash up music played was gold though

My daughter absolutely loved the dance-off and made us recreate it afterwards and she is softening up on MJF these days. Poor thing, I know my heart is going to be broken by the sudden yet inevitable betrayal but she won’t see it coming

Also Roddy is defo turning which is why I think MJF will revert to his default which is a shame because smarmy/fake sounding MJF is much more entertaining than try hard edge lord MJF

KME brought a good point that if MJF turns heel again he should say that he really wanted to be friends with Cole, its better than the old "lol I was just pretending to be friends with you".

[The Ichi]

Honestly I feel like if they don't turn MJF full face here, they never can. One more "lol got'em" is going to give him boy who cried wolf aura permanently.

[jm]

If TK goes and splits them up in a few weeks, it'll be promotional malpractice and honestly my opinion of him as a booker will take a big hit.

[HMARK Center]

Jul 20, 2023 18:23:33 GMT -5 The Ichi said:

Honestly I feel like if they don't turn MJF full face here, they never can. One more "lol got'em" is going to give him boy who cried wolf aura permanently.

That's basically my point; you can keep him heel here, but it has to be different than what we've seen before. It can't be the culmination of some scheme, you're totally right it can't be a "lol, got 'em" like he hatched against Cody and then against Mox; it has to be straight up him sinking to his lowest point and doing it because he's miserable, insecure, hurt, scared of letting people get close, etc. You let him spend the last leg of his title reign in this incredibly dark place, where he becomes a much more menacing character because he's pretty much broken.

In other words, you can keep him heel for the eventual title match, but he can't be the exact same MJF we're used to seeing during that period. After that, since the point will be that he was sincere in his desire to be Cole's friend but just let his hangups keep him from that, he can be built towards a potential face turn, since he'll have hit rock bottom and needs to build himself back up.

[Kalmia]

Obviously the initial plan was to split the team to get another world title match out of it, but the two work together so well and are getting so over that plans really need to change.

Give them the tag belts. Then you've even got a reason as to why Cole isn't going after the world title right now. He's a champ! He's having fun with his friend! Otherwise Cole not going for the world title again is kinda dumb.

[Jindrak Mark]

I don't envy the call Tony has to make here.

A lot of people will be pissed if he does the usual MJF turn in the coming weeks. It feels like the dynamic with Cole has just started. It would be like Roman Reigns turning on Sami Zayn in September 2022. You're leaving so much potential great stuff on the table by going to the breakup so quickly. If it's doing good numbers then let it keep heating up until fever pitch before you do the big angle.

On the other hand they have their biggest show ever in just a month and he might not want the world champion in a comedic/tag thing on a historic show like that. He might want him in a heated world title match and this close to the show he might see MJF turning on Cole as the easiest way to get that.

At this point I'd probably just say f*** it and have them win the tag titles at All In after FTR turn heel and cheat to beat them next week. Sure it might be weird not having a world title match on your biggest show but the tickets have already been sold, people like the current MJF/Cole act and it's not like the first Wrestlemania didn't have the world champ in a tag match.

[Deleted]

I'd keep him 'babyface' by just having him keep on doing what he's doing with Cole, people are cheering him and he's playing up to the crowd, he's effectively babyface already so there's no need to do some on-the-nose total personality turnaround with him. Let him be a heel who is stoked to have finally found a true friend and it's got him acting like a babyface in spite of himself. Keep the act going and ride the wave. You can flip MJF heel again in the long-term easily if that's what you want to do, or even flip Adam heel on MJF, but there's no need to rush in to doing that.

[Dragonfly]

One of my favorite stories WCW ever did was the friendship of Sting and Lex. Sting, the world's most trusting dope, told everyone that would listen that Lex wouldn't stab him in the back. And for once, he was right. Lex might have been a unlikeable jackass, but he was always there for Sting. By the time the NWO rolled around, Lex had officially proven himself.

This feels like a modern retelling of that story. Yes, MJF and Cole are very different characters. But the idea is the same. Cole, like Surfer Sting before him, believes his buddy is a decent guy despite his history. Roddy is the skeptical WCW locker room.

I loved it 1996, and I still love it in 2023.

[King Devitt: What Plants Crave]

Jul 20, 2023 18:40:48 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

Jul 20, 2023 18:23:33 GMT -5 The Ichi said:

Honestly I feel like if they don't turn MJF full face here, they never can. One more "lol got'em" is going to give him boy who cried wolf aura permanently.

That's basically my point; you can keep him heel here, but it has to be different than what we've seen before. It can't be the culmination of some scheme, you're totally right it can't be a "lol, got 'em" like he hatched against Cody and then against Mox; it has to be straight up him sinking to his lowest point and being doing it because he's miserable, insecure, hurt, scared of letting people get close, etc. You let him spend the last leg of his title reign in this incredibly dark place, where he becomes a much more menacing character because he's pretty much broken.

In other words, you can keep him heel for the eventual title match, but he can't be the exact same MJF we're used to seeing during that period. After that, since the point will be that he was sincere in his desire to be Cole's friend but just let his hangups keep him from that, he can be built towards a potential face turn, since he'll have hit rock bottom and needs to build himself back up.

This would make for a very compelling character, and one that Max could knock out of the park with his acting chops.

Tony Khan if you're reading this...if you HAVE to turn MJF back heel again, DO THIS.

[clifford]

The tug of war with title belt post-match makes me think we're getting the obvious MJF 'GOT 'IM' turn if they don't win the tag titles, but I really hope I'm wrong.

[Dang!]

Jul 20, 2023 23:27:21 GMT -5 Dragonfly said:

One of my favorite stories WCW ever did was the friendship of Sting and Lex. Sting, the world's most trusting dope, told everyone that would listen that Lex wouldn't stab him in the back. And for once, he was right. Lex might have been a unlikeable jackass, but he was always there for Sting. By the time the NWO rolled around, Lex had officially proven himself.

This feels like a modern retelling of that story. Yes, MJF and Cole are very different characters. But the idea is the same. Cole, like Surfer Sting before him, believes his buddy is a decent guy despite his history. Roddy is the skeptical WCW locker room.

I loved it 1996, and I still love it in 2023.

Luger and Sting's friendship was a great bit of continuity in WCW.

[Bo Rida]

I still think a triple-threat is the way to go, their oponent can try to drive a wedge between them and there's loads of directions the match can go. Crucially it includes the option of them competing but remaining friends.

[HMARK Center]

Of course, if they go with “MJF drives Coke away due to his own insecurities”, they could also just have him breathe super heavily into a camera, put in a bandana and sunglasses, and start growling that Cole “had LUST IN HIS EYES for the Triple B!” while showing out of context clips like his post match reaction this past Wednesday.

[markymark]

[Mid-Carder]

Jul 21, 2023 4:49:58 GMT -5 Bo Rida said:

I still think a triple-threat is the way to go, their oponent can try to drive a wedge between them and there's loads of directions the match can go. Crucially it includes the option of them competing but remaining friends.

Thinking about this I think this is the best option to string this out a bit longer, particularly with MJF still being champion. They could even keep Max as a tweener if they don't want to completely turn him face

[spagett]

Jul 20, 2023 18:23:33 GMT -5 The Ichi said:

Honestly I feel like if they don't turn MJF full face here, they never can. One more "lol got'em" is going to give him boy who cried wolf aura permanently.

The crowd are desperate to cheer for MJF, you can just hear it.

He really should turn babyface properly now, like you said it's time. Plus it feels like plenty of guys win the World Title as a babyface and gradually turn heel but I can't remember too many guys winning a world title as a heel and turning babyface. It would be pretty different.