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Post by Feargus McReddit on Aug 11, 2023 7:21:29 GMT -5
They're apparently not just counting sold tickets + comp tickets, though. The number they say on TV is supposedly a count of every human being in the building that day, including the wrestlers, ringside photographers, and anyone else who is being paid to be there. I was expanding upon how claiming the attendance was whatever would not be the same as lying on financial statements. Because the Financials are based on tickets sold. And, like, it’s not like they haven’t made clear that the numbers are done for kayfabe reasons before, especially from the mentioned WrestleMania 32 number, so as long as they aren’t lying about anything else or, off the top of my head, not disclosing payments of NDAs on women who might potentially sue the company if they didn’t get made, then they’ll be making what it should be made from the statements. |
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Post by cjh on Aug 11, 2023 7:36:14 GMT -5
They're apparently not just counting sold tickets + comp tickets, though. The number they say on TV is supposedly a count of every human being in the building that day, including the wrestlers, ringside photographers, and anyone else who is being paid to be there. I was expanding upon how claiming the attendance was whatever would not be the same as lying on financial statements. Because the Financials are based on tickets sold. By lying, I just meant them mentioning what is, basically, a kayfabe number of fans in the highlight section of the financial report when they don't kayfabe anything else in these. They wouldn't send out a press release to shareholders and the media about a heel attacking a babyface and "injuring" him to make it look like a shoot, so I think a phony number should be treated like a storyline, too. |
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Post by jason1980s on Aug 11, 2023 10:07:16 GMT -5
I was expanding upon how claiming the attendance was whatever would not be the same as lying on financial statements. Because the Financials are based on tickets sold. By lying, I just meant them mentioning what is, basically, a kayfabe number of fans in the highlight section of the financial report when they don't kayfabe anything else in these. They wouldn't send out a press release to shareholders and the media about a heel attacking a babyface and "injuring" him to make it look like a shoot, so I think a phony number should be treated like a storyline, too. Didn't they send out a press release about the "sale" of Raw to Vince's billionaire buddy? And that led to issues with stock decline, so they went to Vince buying it back. |
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Post by Magnus the Magnificent on Aug 11, 2023 10:25:42 GMT -5
I've always wondered what the max people allowed in the arena because of fire and other safety regulations were.
Would it even be allowed to pack 93K+ in there?
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Post by Feyrhausen on Aug 11, 2023 10:34:43 GMT -5
By lying, I just meant them mentioning what is, basically, a kayfabe number of fans in the highlight section of the financial report when they don't kayfabe anything else in these. They wouldn't send out a press release to shareholders and the media about a heel attacking a babyface and "injuring" him to make it look like a shoot, so I think a phony number should be treated like a storyline, too. Didn't they send out a press release about the "sale" of Raw to Vince's billionaire buddy? And that led to issues with stock decline, so they went to Vince buying it back. They did, it did, and there were rumblings of investigations and fines. So they dropped it quick. |
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Post by fg on Aug 11, 2023 11:56:51 GMT -5
Didn't they send out a press release about the "sale" of Raw to Vince's billionaire buddy? And that led to issues with stock decline, so they went to Vince buying it back. They did, it did, and there were rumblings of investigations and fines. So they dropped it quick. That’s one of my favorite bad storylines. It is so hilarious watch a bad idea fail so miserably from the start. It is definitely so bad, it’s good. |
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Post by jason1980s on Aug 11, 2023 12:06:54 GMT -5
They did, it did, and there were rumblings of investigations and fines. So they dropped it quick. That’s one of my favorite bad storylines. It is so hilarious watch a bad idea fail so miserably from the start. It is definitely so bad, it’s good. I knew from the very beginning not only was it for storylines only but it would backfire. I LOL'd when there was talk of stock decline (though I felt bad for the stock holders) and possible investigations. Both guys tout themselves as the smartest and the best businessmen and yet they couldn't see that coming. |
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Post by Feyrhausen on Aug 11, 2023 12:56:19 GMT -5
That’s one of my favorite bad storylines. It is so hilarious watch a bad idea fail so miserably from the start. It is definitely so bad, it’s good. I knew from the very beginning not only was it for storylines only but it would backfire. I LOL'd when there was talk of stock decline (though I felt bad for the stock holders) and possible investigations. Both guys tout themselves as the smartest and the best businessmen and yet they couldn't see that coming. It wasnt the storyline that was the problem. For the most part the people who watch WWE and the people who invest in it are very different. The issue was that WWE put out a very official sounding press release about him buying Raw. |
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Post by DichEvans on Aug 11, 2023 13:10:18 GMT -5
A few recent claims that AEW ALL IN out drew WM3 got me doing some research. Meltzer claims 78,000. WWE claims 93,000. But who's right? Personally I can't understand how anyone would believe the 78,000 figure. The football attendance was 80,000. That's without floor seats. Add the floor seats, you're looking at over 80,000. Official media at the time reported 88,000 seats sold, although there's some reports of over 93,000. So what do you think? Not really defending WWE, but will note that most other North American sports leagues massively exaggerate their attendance. The Tampa Bay Rays in the MLB say they average close to 20k/game. Been to many games there, their average is probably closer to 9k. In this sphere, many organizations count "tickets distributed" as their attendance numbers, instead of counting the people who actually go to the game. The practice of giving away tickets to phantom businesses and counting people who did not even show up is very real. This is mainly done for advertising purposes. Easier to sell in arena ad spots while promoting that they will get "20,000 impressions", than telling them they will only get 9,000 impressions. I am sure WWE does that as well. It's a dirty business tactic, but it's a common one |
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Post by Ozman on Aug 11, 2023 17:53:57 GMT -5
I believe the number was closer to 93 than 78.
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Post by cornettesracket on Aug 26, 2023 16:05:00 GMT -5
link
Brandon Thurston has actually done a YouTube video and article trying to solve this mystery of the attendance record. It’s a very good article, but the link at the end he has a link to Dave meltzers mentioning of the attendance of mania 3 and its very interesting the way it was reported, and his stated paid attendance number for years after is something to read.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Aug 26, 2023 16:50:39 GMT -5
A few recent claims that AEW ALL IN out drew WM3 got me doing some research. Meltzer claims 78,000. WWE claims 93,000. But who's right? Personally I can't understand how anyone would believe the 78,000 figure. The football attendance was 80,000. That's without floor seats. Add the floor seats, you're looking at over 80,000. Official media at the time reported 88,000 seats sold, although there's some reports of over 93,000. So what do you think? Not really defending WWE, but will note that most other North American sports leagues massively exaggerate their attendance. The Tampa Bay Rays in the MLB say they average close to 20k/game. Been to many games there, their average is probably closer to 9k. In this sphere, many organizations count "tickets distributed" as their attendance numbers, instead of counting the people who actually go to the game. The practice of giving away tickets to phantom businesses and counting people who did not even show up is very real. This is mainly done for advertising purposes. Easier to sell in arena ad spots while promoting that they will get "20,000 impressions", than telling them they will only get 9,000 impressions. I am sure WWE does that as well. It's a dirty business tactic, but it's a common one MLB counts attendance as tickets sold. The NL used to count people thru the gates & the AL used to count tickets sold. At some point both moved the AL model.* * I may have the leagues reversed, but the result was the same. |
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Aug 26, 2023 18:35:40 GMT -5
Not really defending WWE, but will note that most other North American sports leagues massively exaggerate their attendance. The Tampa Bay Rays in the MLB say they average close to 20k/game. Been to many games there, their average is probably closer to 9k. In this sphere, many organizations count "tickets distributed" as their attendance numbers, instead of counting the people who actually go to the game. The practice of giving away tickets to phantom businesses and counting people who did not even show up is very real. This is mainly done for advertising purposes. Easier to sell in arena ad spots while promoting that they will get "20,000 impressions", than telling them they will only get 9,000 impressions. I am sure WWE does that as well. It's a dirty business tactic, but it's a common one MLB counts attendance as tickets sold. The NL used to count people thru the gates & the AL used to count tickets sold. At some point both moved the AL model.* * I may have the leagues reversed, but the result was the same. The Phoenix Coyotes massively inflate attendance, and they play in a 4000 seat arena now. Years ago TSN snarkily said of them “Come dressed as an empty seat night was a massive success”. When Phoenix reported like 12,000 and maybe they were 3000 in the actual crowd. |
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Post by cjh on Aug 26, 2023 19:08:43 GMT -5
There's now a dispute over the WrestleMania 32 attendance. Meltzer claims in 2023 that the actual attendance was a little over 80,000, a difference of more than 21,000 when compared to WWE's 101,000 figure. However, after the show took place in 2016, he claimed that the real attendance was over 90,000. The link below lists WM 32 at 93,730. prowrestlinghistory.com/supercards/usa/wwf/mania.html#32 |
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Post by Mozenrath on Aug 26, 2023 23:58:09 GMT -5
I knew from the very beginning not only was it for storylines only but it would backfire. I LOL'd when there was talk of stock decline (though I felt bad for the stock holders) and possible investigations. Both guys tout themselves as the smartest and the best businessmen and yet they couldn't see that coming. It wasnt the storyline that was the problem. For the most part the people who watch WWE and the people who invest in it are very different. The issue was that WWE put out a very official sounding press release about him buying Raw. Right, otherwise it'd have been an issue when they had "Ric Flair owns half the company"-type storylines, and as far as I know, that wasn't an issue in the past. It's when you start doing releases like that where it becomes a problem. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2023 1:02:03 GMT -5
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Post by cjh on Aug 27, 2023 9:46:52 GMT -5
Meltzer says the 80,000 figure is the people who entered the building through the turnstiles with a ticket. That would mean paid tickets and free tickets combined. Plus, he is now exclusively stating that figure instead of the 97,000 figure he used in the aftermath of the show. Basically, it's.... WWE - 101,763 Meltzer in 2016 - 97,969 Meltzer today - 80,709 |
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Post by cornettesracket on Aug 27, 2023 12:05:28 GMT -5
Just going through the article from Brandon Thurston and the observer newsletter reports from meltzer and on
April 13th, 1987 he said the paid attendance was 90,873 for WM III.
February 8th, 1988 it was stated by the WON as 90,000 paid when talking about WM IV and the fact the live gate would be higher for that upcoming mania.
January 23rd, 1989 90,817
April 17th ,1989 90, 873
May 8th. 1989 90,817 PAID attendance
December 18th, 1989 90,817 again
February 19th, 1990 90,817 again
April 20th, 1992 90, 873
January 15th 1993 90,817
February 8th 1993 90,817 PAID
February 7th 1994 90,873
The November 14th 1994 issue is from what Brandon Thurston hard work is the first example he found of the 78,000 number being stated as the real number. The question is what changed ?
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Post by Ganon83 on Aug 27, 2023 12:28:29 GMT -5
Just going through the article from Brandon Thurston and the observer newsletter reports from meltzer and on April 13th, 1987 he said the paid attendance was 90,873 for WM III. February 8th, 1988 it was stated by the WON as 90,000 paid when talking about WM IV and the fact the live gate would be higher for that upcoming mania. January 23rd, 1989 90,817 April 17th ,1989 90, 873 May 8th. 1989 90,817 PAID attendance December 18th, 1989 90,817 again February 19th, 1990 90,817 again April 20th, 1992 90, 873 January 15th 1993 90,817 February 8th 1993 90,817 PAID February 7th 1994 90,873 The November 14th 1994 issue is from what Brandon Thurston hard work is the first example he found of the 78,000 number being stated as the real number. The question is what changed ? Dave has said it was years later when Bresloff gave him the real number. This is not exactly Unsolved Mysteries. Lost in all of this "well Dave is lying because he hates WWE" talk is that Dave has outright said before that if the Silverdome could have held 93k, it would have that night. We have two sides to this argument, one is somebody who has been reporting on this stuff for 40 years and the other is a company that has admitted to lying about the attendance of multiple shows multiple times. I know which side I'm going with on this one. |
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Post by cjh on Aug 27, 2023 13:16:34 GMT -5
Just going through the article from Brandon Thurston and the observer newsletter reports from meltzer and on April 13th, 1987 he said the paid attendance was 90,873 for WM III. February 8th, 1988 it was stated by the WON as 90,000 paid when talking about WM IV and the fact the live gate would be higher for that upcoming mania. January 23rd, 1989 90,817 April 17th ,1989 90, 873 May 8th. 1989 90,817 PAID attendance December 18th, 1989 90,817 again February 19th, 1990 90,817 again April 20th, 1992 90, 873 January 15th 1993 90,817 February 8th 1993 90,817 PAID February 7th 1994 90,873 The November 14th 1994 issue is from what Brandon Thurston hard work is the first example he found of the 78,000 number being stated as the real number. The question is what changed ? In the video posted yesterday, Thurston said that based on his own research, he believes WM III had around 80,000 people in the regular seats and about 6,000 people on the field. |
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