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Post by ThatDudeThatExsists on Aug 8, 2023 21:06:29 GMT -5
A few recent claims that AEW ALL IN out drew WM3 got me doing some research.
Meltzer claims 78,000.
WWE claims 93,000.
But who's right?
Personally I can't understand how anyone would believe the 78,000 figure. The football attendance was 80,000. That's without floor seats. Add the floor seats, you're looking at over 80,000.
Official media at the time reported 88,000 seats sold, although there's some reports of over 93,000.
So what do you think?
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
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Post by cjh on Aug 8, 2023 21:33:55 GMT -5
I wouldn't rule out the legitimate number being around 80,000 or so. The previous legit records (Led Zeppelin and The Who) were both around 75,000 before that, and those are non-football attendances with people on the field also. The 78,000 number came from Zane Bresloff, who handled promotion of the event for the WWF. I'd be more inclined to believe him than the public "record setting announced number." And not that it's scientific in any way, but just looking at photos, there's a lot of open space without seating. (Not unfilled seats... just areas where they didn't set up chairs on the field).
My guess is the 78,000 from Bresloff was the legit paid number, but they probably had around 83,000 or so actual people in the building when comps, guests, etc. are all considered.
But we'll never know the real answer. All that matters is it was a big crowd and the event is etched in the memory of all wrestling fans. The Observer said Bresloff's 78,000 number was the total attendance with 75,000 of them paid. |
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Post by ThatDudeThatExsists on Aug 8, 2023 21:40:11 GMT -5
I wouldn't rule out the legitimate number being around 80,000 or so. The previous legit records (Led Zeppelin and The Who) were both around 75,000 before that, and those are non-football attendances with people on the field also. The 78,000 number came from Zane Bresloff, who handled promotion of the event for the WWF. I'd be more inclined to believe him than the public "record setting announced number." And not that it's scientific in any way, but just looking at photos, there's a lot of open space without seating. (Not unfilled seats... just areas where they didn't set up chairs on the field).
My guess is the 78,000 from Bresloff was the legit paid number, but they probably had around 83,000 or so actual people in the building when comps, guests, etc. are all considered.
But we'll never know the real answer. All that matters is it was a big crowd and the event is etched in the memory of all wrestling fans. The Observer said Bresloff's 78,000 number was the total attendance with 75,000 of them paid. Which is one of my biggest issues. There's just no way that didn't pack more than that. |
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Post by ThatDudeThatExsists on Aug 8, 2023 21:56:15 GMT -5
The Observer said Bresloff's 78,000 number was the total attendance with 75,000 of them paid. Ah. Wouldn't surprise me if it were accurate. Some of the wrestling crowds that have been larger than 78,000 during the time since have actually looked more visually impressive than WM3 did, so it wouldn't shock me if that were true. Maybe it was 93,000. But to me, there's just way more reason to believe the local promoter of the event giving a real number than the public "record setting" one.
Some photo comparisons, for fun....
WrestleMania 28 (81,000 announced):
WrestleMania 35 (82,000 announced):
WrestleMania III (93,000 announced):
WrestleMania 32 (101,000 announced):
WM 3 didn't have the big entrance way. So way more room for seats. |
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Post by jason1980s on Aug 8, 2023 22:41:21 GMT -5
If WWE could have cited outdoing WM III at those more recent Wrestlemania's, they would have. If they outdrew III, absolutely they would announce it. But those attendance figures are lower than III (except 32).
I don't doubt the 93,173 even if some were free tickets. III's crowd looks amazing. We will probably never know the "real" number unless Vince says it in his dying days like "rosebud." Fink probably knew it and took it to the grave, if it wasn't 93,173.
It's really too bad technology doesn't exist to count each person, like zero in on each and count.
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Post by buckethead on Aug 9, 2023 1:25:33 GMT -5
If WWE could have cited outdoing WM III at those more recent Wrestlemania's, they would have. If they outdrew III, absolutely they would announce it. But those attendance figures are lower than III (except 32). I don't doubt the 93,173 even if some were free tickets. III's crowd looks amazing. We will probably never know the "real" number unless Vince says it in his dying days like "rosebud." Fink probably knew it and took it to the grave, if it wasn't 93,173. It's really too bad technology doesn't exist to count each person, like zero in on each and count. I don't doubt it either. No real reason to. If the stadium was half full and they made that 93k claim,yeah it would be a problem. It's clearly packed to the rafters..and was historic. That's all that matters to me. I'll never forget the excitement surrounding the event. It's really the only time the whole world was paying attention to wrestling. Even my grandma..who didn't give a rat's patootie about wrestling...had to drive to our place to watch because she wanted to see Hogan slam Andre. |
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
Nachos and Fraggle Rock are TIMELESS.
Posts: 8,428
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Post by Nosnorb on Aug 9, 2023 2:42:20 GMT -5
A few recent claims that AEW ALL IN out drew WM3 got me doing some research. Meltzer claims 78,000. WWE claims 93,000. But who's right? Personally I can't understand how anyone would believe the 78,000 figure. The football attendance was 80,000. That's without floor seats. Add the floor seats, you're looking at over 80,000. Official media at the time reported 88,000 seats sold, although there's some reports of over 93,000. So what do you think? You missed out the claims from Hogan of all those millions of Hulkamaniacs who witnessed him slam the 700 pound Andre the Giant, Brother! |
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Post by Feyrhausen on Aug 9, 2023 3:53:17 GMT -5
If WWE could have cited outdoing WM III at those more recent Wrestlemania's, they would have. If they outdrew III, absolutely they would announce it. But those attendance figures are lower than III (except 32). I don't doubt the 93,173 even if some were free tickets. III's crowd looks amazing. We will probably never know the "real" number unless Vince says it in his dying days like "rosebud." Fink probably knew it and took it to the grave, if it wasn't 93,173. It's really too bad technology doesn't exist to count each person, like zero in on each and count. But if they announced a more recent show doing a bigger number than 3 then they would have to admit they have been lying all these years about the true Mania 3 attendance. Stick with the lie. And they cant lie about modern Mania numbers because they are now public so they are required to make the true numbers available. |
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Post by ThatDudeThatExsists on Aug 9, 2023 4:26:56 GMT -5
If WWE could have cited outdoing WM III at those more recent Wrestlemania's, they would have. If they outdrew III, absolutely they would announce it. But those attendance figures are lower than III (except 32). I don't doubt the 93,173 even if some were free tickets. III's crowd looks amazing. We will probably never know the "real" number unless Vince says it in his dying days like "rosebud." Fink probably knew it and took it to the grave, if it wasn't 93,173. It's really too bad technology doesn't exist to count each person, like zero in on each and count. But if they announced a more recent show doing a bigger number than 3 then they would have to admit they have been lying all these years about the true Mania 3 attendance. Stick with the lie. And they cant lie about modern Mania numbers because they are now public so they are required to make the true numbers available. I mean, there's numerous sources, including the official website of the Silver dome, that give 93,173. Some official sources actually give a BIGGER number. I just can't buy 78,000. I could buy 85,000, but 78,000? No way. |
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Post by Feyrhausen on Aug 9, 2023 4:54:17 GMT -5
But if they announced a more recent show doing a bigger number than 3 then they would have to admit they have been lying all these years about the true Mania 3 attendance. Stick with the lie. And they cant lie about modern Mania numbers because they are now public so they are required to make the true numbers available. I mean, there's numerous sources, including the official website of the Silver dome, that give 93,173. Some official sources actually give a BIGGER number. I just can't buy 78,000. I could buy 85,000, but 78,000? No way. I am not making an argument over what the Mania 3 number was. I am only refuting the argument that WWE would give a more recent Mania credit for beating 3s number. Unless the attendance for a recent Mania is higher than the 93,000 then WWE would have to admit to lying all these years. And WWE cannot inflate numbers like they used to as they are public and have to publish actual numbers. |
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Post by ThatDudeThatExsists on Aug 9, 2023 4:58:56 GMT -5
I mean, there's numerous sources, including the official website of the Silver dome, that give 93,173. Some official sources actually give a BIGGER number. I just can't buy 78,000. I could buy 85,000, but 78,000? No way. I am not making an argument over what the Mania 3 number was. I am only refuting the argument that WWE would give a more recent Mania credit for beating 3s number. Unless the attendance for a recent Mania is higher than the 93,000 then WWE would have to admit to lying all these years. And WWE cannot inflate numbers like they used to as they are public and have to publish actual numbers. They already did give credit. WM 32 had 101,000+. I'm not even saying that the 93,000 number is the correct one. But I'm saying that 78,000 is even more unbelievable to me. |
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Post by Mrs. Potato Dick on Aug 9, 2023 8:10:42 GMT -5
When I heard the 78,000, I thought it might have been 78k PAID and the rest were papered.
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Post by polarbearpete on Aug 9, 2023 8:15:56 GMT -5
If WWE could have cited outdoing WM III at those more recent Wrestlemania's, they would have. If they outdrew III, absolutely they would announce it. But those attendance figures are lower than III (except 32). I don't doubt the 93,173 even if some were free tickets. III's crowd looks amazing. We will probably never know the "real" number unless Vince says it in his dying days like "rosebud." Fink probably knew it and took it to the grave, if it wasn't 93,173. It's really too bad technology doesn't exist to count each person, like zero in on each and count. But if they announced a more recent show doing a bigger number than 3 then they would have to admit they have been lying all these years about the true Mania 3 attendance. Stick with the lie. And they cant lie about modern Mania numbers because they are now public so they are required to make the true numbers available. They lie about the current attendances all the time. They can’t lie about financials but they can make up fictitious attendance numbers on TV and in media. |
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,903
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Post by cjh on Aug 9, 2023 8:21:19 GMT -5
But if they announced a more recent show doing a bigger number than 3 then they would have to admit they have been lying all these years about the true Mania 3 attendance. Stick with the lie. And they cant lie about modern Mania numbers because they are now public so they are required to make the true numbers available. They lie about the current attendances all the time. They can’t lie about financials but they can make up fictitious attendance numbers on TV and in media. They give the announced WrestleMania number in the highlights section of their Q2 earnings report each year. |
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Post by firsttimelongtime on Aug 9, 2023 9:53:01 GMT -5
What motivation would Zane Bresloff have to lie about the number? He was the promoter. If anything, wouldn’t he want to boast a bigger number?
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BRV
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wants him some Taco Flavored Kisses.
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Post by BRV on Aug 9, 2023 9:58:30 GMT -5
The Pontiac Silverdome's capacity in 1987 was roughly 80,000. To get to 93,173, that would mean they had to sell out the seating bowl and add about 13,000 seats to the floor, which looks like exactly what happened. To convince me of the 78,000 number, there would have to be large swaths of empty seats on both the floor and seating bowl. Someone please point out all those empty seats to me. |
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Sicho100
Hank Scorpio
Easily Confused.
Posts: 5,996 
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Post by Sicho100 on Aug 9, 2023 10:39:13 GMT -5
What motivation would Zane Bresloff have to lie about the number? He was the promoter. If anything, wouldn’t he want to boast a bigger number? WWE also ended up giving Meltzer access to their internal books for a story he did. The books confirmed the 78,000 number. The arena even had to gimmick a number for the literal Pope, because the Pope outdrew WM 3, but still didn’t reach 93,000. And, guys, let’s stop with the “This picture must be more than 78,000” argument. You can’t tell the difference between 78,000 or 93,000 in a picture. None of us can. If WWE had announced the attendance as 65,000, that’s how many people you would think were in that picture, because all you’re really saying is, “There are a lot of people in this picture.” |
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Post by cornettesracket on Aug 9, 2023 10:51:28 GMT -5
If WWE could have cited outdoing WM III at those more recent Wrestlemania's, they would have. If they outdrew III, absolutely they would announce it. But those attendance figures are lower than III (except 32). I don't doubt the 93,173 even if some were free tickets. III's crowd looks amazing. We will probably never know the "real" number unless Vince says it in his dying days like "rosebud." Fink probably knew it and took it to the grave, if it wasn't 93,173. It's really too bad technology doesn't exist to count each person, like zero in on each and count. The paid attendance is something that is always an issue but my biggest issue is that there was less than the official capacity seated capacity of the stadium which was used by the NFL in the stadium that night. |
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Post by jason1980s on Aug 9, 2023 10:55:40 GMT -5
But if they announced a more recent show doing a bigger number than 3 then they would have to admit they have been lying all these years about the true Mania 3 attendance. Stick with the lie. Good point, I didn't think about that. I don't doubt it either. No real reason to. If the stadium was half full and they made that 93k claim,yeah it would be a problem. It's clearly packed to the rafters..and was historic. That's all that matters to me. I'll never forget the excitement surrounding the event. It's really the only time the whole world was paying attention to wrestling. I feel like most mania's over the last 20 years are not so much die hard current WWE fans but maybe a mix of regular viewers and also fans who may not view the product regularly, if at all, but have to cross a mania off their bucket list. The importance of III, I believe is so far ahead of any of the mania's over the past 20 years or more. The matches brought fans in, not the fact that you have to see a mania once in your lifetime. I know WWE HAS to run stadium shows now because you can't go "back" or "down" but I feel like there's not as much importance in the historical aspect if EVERY mania (sans 2020) is a stadium show. III and X-7 really stand out amongst them all. |
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Post by Feyrhausen on Aug 9, 2023 11:06:47 GMT -5
I am not making an argument over what the Mania 3 number was. I am only refuting the argument that WWE would give a more recent Mania credit for beating 3s number. Unless the attendance for a recent Mania is higher than the 93,000 then WWE would have to admit to lying all these years. And WWE cannot inflate numbers like they used to as they are public and have to publish actual numbers. They already did give credit. WM 32 had 101,000+. I'm not even saying that the 93,000 number is the correct one. But I'm saying that 78,000 is even more unbelievable to me. Thats fine then. I dont know any attendance numbers for any recent Manias. I was only responding to the post that tried to make a point that if WWE was willing to lie about 3s attendance why wouldnt they lie to make a newer Mania top that. And my point is that they cant lie now like they used to as they are public and subject to scrutiny. |
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