Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,878
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Post by Dub H on Sept 6, 2023 12:19:03 GMT -5
Not only were they facing a PPV and NBA games, Punk literally had 3 or 4 Angles booked around himself.
They did the literal same mistake of putting all on punk and when he went away ,needing to rebuild everything.The whole show was based around Punk so you gonnas need to sell the show all around again, but to less people this time.
Hey at least Punk fanboys can claim "See?!".
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Post by firsttimelongtime on Sept 6, 2023 12:41:21 GMT -5
Hey at least Punk fanboys can claim "See?!". Who is doing this? |
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jm
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,137
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Post by jm on Sept 6, 2023 12:50:23 GMT -5
Hey at least Punk fanboys can claim "See?!". Who is doing this? "But it doesn’t take away from the fact that Punk still meant a ton to business. At the time of his firing he was one of four wrestlers who consistently drew television ratings. Just look at the quarter numbers from this week and compare them to every other Collision. The viewing audience was cut by 50% from Q1 to Q8. That is unheard of for all AEW television, let alone Collision. It’s the same viewing pattern AEW gets for Dynamite where people turn it off as the show progresses with some slight peaks. Punk constantly held onto viewers throughout the show and would peak with the main event." Literally your last post in this thread. |
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Post by firsttimelongtime on Sept 6, 2023 12:54:31 GMT -5
"But it doesn’t take away from the fact that Punk still meant a ton to business. At the time of his firing he was one of four wrestlers who consistently drew television ratings. Just look at the quarter numbers from this week and compare them to every other Collision. The viewing audience was cut by 50% from Q1 to Q8. That is unheard of for all AEW television, let alone Collision. It’s the same viewing pattern AEW gets for Dynamite where people turn it off as the show progresses with some slight peaks. Punk constantly held onto viewers throughout the show and would peak with the main event." Literally your last post in this thread. I am taking literal statistics and applying it to a comment in a ratings thread. What's so bad about that? If you want to prove me wrong find me the stats which do so. Did I use those stats to say Punk should still be employed? No. I specifically said he should be fired. Because he should have been. Any type of reading comprehension leads people to realize my point that even though firing Punk was the right thing to do, it still is going to be an uphill battle for AEW to overcome. AND I HOPE THEY DO IT. So again - tell me where I am saying "see?" |
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on Sept 6, 2023 13:16:19 GMT -5
"But it doesn’t take away from the fact that Punk still meant a ton to business. At the time of his firing he was one of four wrestlers who consistently drew television ratings. Just look at the quarter numbers from this week and compare them to every other Collision. The viewing audience was cut by 50% from Q1 to Q8. That is unheard of for all AEW television, let alone Collision. It’s the same viewing pattern AEW gets for Dynamite where people turn it off as the show progresses with some slight peaks. Punk constantly held onto viewers throughout the show and would peak with the main event." Literally your last post in this thread. I am taking literal statistics and applying it to a comment in a ratings thread. What's so bad about that? If you want to prove me wrong find me the stats which do so. Did I use those stats to say Punk should still be employed? No. I specifically said he should be fired. Because he should have been. Any type of reading comprehension leads people to realize my point that even though firing Punk was the right thing to do, it still is going to be an uphill battle for AEW to overcome. AND I HOPE THEY DO IT. So again - tell me where I am saying "see?" This is an incredibly disingenuous "facts and logic" argument. AEW was doing good business and growing long before Punk arrived, and it will continue doing good business and growing with the trajectory it's on long after Punk is gone. There is no "uphill battle for AEW to overcome." That's entirely manufactured concern trolling. On the television front, I'm not a television executive, but I sincerely don't think WBD really gives two f***s about 75,000-150,000 estimated live Nielsen viewers on Saturday night either way, which is the maximum "draw" that Punk was, based upon your "literal statistics" (although, those statistics are decidedly not literal, and can be subjectively analyzed a million different ways). As a company, AEW's appeal is the fact that it can produce low-cost, strike-immune, new content on a weekly basis and has a very high floor of loyal viewers and can draw the type of advertising revenue associated with original content. Dynamite is, will be, and has always been, the driver of any contract renewal discussions between WBD and AEW and it is, to this day, a Top 5 show on Wednesday nights that is exceeding expectations. Rampage and Collision are just cherries on top of the overall package. One single guy means nothing to the overall negotiations. Punk was just a highly toxic cog that was poisoning the machine it was a part of. I would be stunned to find out that WBD executives cared, even remotely, about Punk being fired, especially if he is going to be replaced with Bryan Danielson or Edge. You constantly make this false equivalency that "Punk = $1,000,000,000; no Punk =/= $1,000,000,000" and that's just obviously not true. |
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UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm
Grimlock
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Posts: 13,977 
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Post by UN PLOMBIER NIGHTMARE #blm on Sept 6, 2023 13:20:29 GMT -5
i expected a lot lower with how well payback started, you had a 5/5 match right off the bat
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone.
Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,580
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Post by Bo Rida on Sept 6, 2023 13:23:11 GMT -5
Not only were they facing a PPV and NBA games, Punk literally had 3 or 4 Angles booked around himself. They did the literal same mistake of putting all on punk and when he went away ,needing to rebuild everything.The whole show was based around Punk so you gonnas need to sell the show all around again, but to less people this time. Hey at least Punk fanboys can claim "See?!". That would be like somebody starting to build a house, setting fire to it halfway through and blaming the firefighters for not being able to save it. Even away from Punk I think the foundations were shaky. A focus on a small number of wrestlers, mostly heels or faces that split the audience to varying degrees. An overly serious approach for a 2hr show that follows 3hrs earlier in the week. For some that's great, many here love bcg for instance so it resonates with them but it's not going to become habitual for everyone else, it's going to be card and competition dependent. I also think many (not all) of those that claim to want such a show don't actually back that up with actions. Similar way as many that say they want better for women's sport/wrestling but never actually support it financially. If critism boils down to aew should be more like WWE then it's hardly surprising many will then watch WWE when they're head to head. Will be interesting to see what happens as the soft brand split ends. |
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Post by firsttimelongtime on Sept 6, 2023 13:29:06 GMT -5
I am taking literal statistics and applying it to a comment in a ratings thread. What's so bad about that? If you want to prove me wrong find me the stats which do so. Did I use those stats to say Punk should still be employed? No. I specifically said he should be fired. Because he should have been. Any type of reading comprehension leads people to realize my point that even though firing Punk was the right thing to do, it still is going to be an uphill battle for AEW to overcome. AND I HOPE THEY DO IT. So again - tell me where I am saying "see?" This is incredibly an incredibly disingenuous "facts and logic" argument. AEW was doing good business and growing long before Punk arrived, and it will continue doing and good business with the trajectory its on long after Punk is gone. There is no "uphill battle for AEW to overcome." That's entirely manufactured concern trolling. On the television front, I'm not a television executive, but I sincerely don't think WBD really gives two f***s about 75,000-150,000 estimated live Nielsen viewers on Saturday night either way, which is the maximum "draw" that Punk was, based upon your "literal statistics" (although, those statistics are decidedly not literal, and can be subjectively analyzed a million different ways). As a company, AEW's appeal is the fact that it can produce low-cost, strike-immune, new content on a weekly basis and has a very high floor of loyal viewers and can draw the type of advertising revenue associated with original content. Dynamite is, will be, and has always been, the driver of any contract renewal discussions between WBD and AEW and it is, to this day, a Top 5 show on Wednesday nights that is exceeding expectations. Rampage and Collision are just cherries on top of the overall package. One single guy means nothing to the overall negotiations. Punk was just a highly toxic cog that was poisoning the machine it was a part of. I would be stunned to find out that WBD executives cared, even remotely, about Punk being fired, especially if he is going to be replaced with Bryan Danielson or Edge. You constantly make this false equivalency that "Punk = $1,000,000,000; no Punk =/= $1,000,000," and that's just obviously not true. How do you know it's not true? I don't know if it is or isn't. I will happily accept being told I was wrong if the billion dollar deal still comes. You're practicing speculation just like I am. I also never said AEW wasn't successful before Punk. It was. But it is also a fact that Punk is the biggest draw in the history of the company. He headlined both of the highest selling PPVs in company history. He was their biggest merch seller BY FAR. He consistently had a positive effect on television viewership. I'm willing to hear an argument about someone else as a bigger draw, but I don't know how to get to that outcome by using something other than "vibes." That is something to overcome. And to think the company's biggest star (on aggregate) being removed doesn't effect TV negotiations is uneven. Meltzer says all the time that Ronda alone could claim a huge shar of credit for the Smackdown Fox deal. These things matter. If you think I am really making deliberately offensive or provocative posts to upset people on this board, then zoom out. I am not being a troll. I am just talking about Punk and his effect on business in an even manner. That's it. |
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Post by kingoftheindies on Sept 6, 2023 13:33:15 GMT -5
American Football reigns surpreme. Going against college football for the next few months is gonna be BAD
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Sept 6, 2023 13:38:08 GMT -5
Not only were they facing a PPV and NBA games, Punk literally had 3 or 4 Angles booked around himself. They did the literal same mistake of putting all on punk and when he went away ,needing to rebuild everything.The whole show was based around Punk so you gonnas need to sell the show all around again, but to less people this time. Hey at least Punk fanboys can claim "See?!". Yeah not only did Punk screw things up in reality his departure also messed up stuff in the world of the TV show. The mains story on Collision for 2 months was Punk and his fake title which now has no conclusion. On TV he basically dog walked the roster for 2 years, was by far the kayfabe top guy and didn't put anyone over on the way out. He was only pinned 3 times and each time either the person cheated or he had an out via injury then he'd get a rematch weeks later and win clean. In kayfabe power levels he was above MJF/Moxley/Elite and everyone else and didn't stick around long enough to gift that rub back to anyone. Now the guy he just beat clean twice in a month is going for the world title. It was obviously too much of a frenzy on the night to consider changing booking decisions but if Tony had a time machine it would be far better TV wise if Joe had beat Punk at All In so Punk didn't leave the company still looking like the most powerful guy. |
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,381 
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Post by markymark on Sept 6, 2023 13:42:43 GMT -5
Not only were they facing a PPV and NBA games, Punk literally had 3 or 4 Angles booked around himself. They did the literal same mistake of putting all on punk and when he went away ,needing to rebuild everything.The whole show was based around Punk so you gonnas need to sell the show all around again, but to less people this time. Hey at least Punk fanboys can claim "See?!". That would be like somebody starting to build a house, setting fire to it halfway through and blaming the firefighters for not being able to save it. Even away from Punk I think the foundations were shaky. A focus on a small number of wrestlers, mostly heels or faces that split the audience to varying degrees. An overly serious approach for a 2hr show that follows 3hrs earlier in the week. For some that's great, many here love bcg for instance so it resonates with them but it's not going to become habitual for everyone else, it's going to be card and competition dependent. I also think many (not all) of those that claim to want such a show don't actually back that up with actions. Similar way as many that say they want better for women's sport/wrestling but never actually support it financially. If critism boils down to aew should be more like WWE then it's hardly surprising many will then watch WWE when they're head to head. Will be interesting to see what happens as the soft brand split ends.
The old Collision format was what was making Collision different from Dynamite and Rampage, the issues were Punk holding grudges with the people that were Pro Elite that rendered the Collision roster to be very thin that they had to bring ROH people to fill in.
Once Danielson takes over hopefully he brings back the old format because at least the quarter hours were stable and viewership never dipped that badly vs competition like WWE PLEs, UFC A shows, Boxing.
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Post by boogie on Sept 6, 2023 13:44:23 GMT -5
When they do ratings for Dynamite, do they count Canadian viewership in the numbers? I am curious because here in Canada TSN stopped showing Collision. This is a big BOOOO to TSN. When the Collision shows were coming from Canadian cities we got to wtch them live on TSN. As soon as they started coming from the US, TSN moved the show to it's horrible app. Among people I know, there are at least 10 of us that would love to watch Collision but we won't use the app. I wonder how much viewership AEW is losing not having Collision available in Canada?
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on Sept 6, 2023 13:45:07 GMT -5
This is incredibly an incredibly disingenuous "facts and logic" argument. AEW was doing good business and growing long before Punk arrived, and it will continue doing and good business with the trajectory its on long after Punk is gone. There is no "uphill battle for AEW to overcome." That's entirely manufactured concern trolling. On the television front, I'm not a television executive, but I sincerely don't think WBD really gives two f***s about 75,000-150,000 estimated live Nielsen viewers on Saturday night either way, which is the maximum "draw" that Punk was, based upon your "literal statistics" (although, those statistics are decidedly not literal, and can be subjectively analyzed a million different ways). As a company, AEW's appeal is the fact that it can produce low-cost, strike-immune, new content on a weekly basis and has a very high floor of loyal viewers and can draw the type of advertising revenue associated with original content. Dynamite is, will be, and has always been, the driver of any contract renewal discussions between WBD and AEW and it is, to this day, a Top 5 show on Wednesday nights that is exceeding expectations. Rampage and Collision are just cherries on top of the overall package. One single guy means nothing to the overall negotiations. Punk was just a highly toxic cog that was poisoning the machine it was a part of. I would be stunned to find out that WBD executives cared, even remotely, about Punk being fired, especially if he is going to be replaced with Bryan Danielson or Edge. You constantly make this false equivalency that "Punk = $1,000,000,000; no Punk =/= $1,000,000," and that's just obviously not true. How do you know it's not true? I don't know if it is or isn't. I will happily accept being told I was wrong if the billion dollar deal still comes. You're practicing speculation just like I am. I also never said AEW wasn't successful before Punk. It was. But it is also a fact that Punk is the biggest draw in the history of the company. He headlined both of the highest selling PPVs in company history. He was their biggest merch seller BY FAR. He consistently had a positive effect on television viewership. I'm willing to hear an argument about someone else as a bigger draw, but I don't know how to get to that outcome by using something other than "vibes." That is something to overcome. And to think the company's biggest star (on aggregate) being removed doesn't effect TV negotiations is uneven. Meltzer says all the time that Ronda alone could claim a huge shar of credit for the Smackdown Fox deal. These things matter. If you think I am really making deliberately offensive or provocative posts to upset people on this board, then zoom out. I am not being a troll. I am just talking about Punk and his effect on business in an even manner. That's it. The "billion dollar TV deal" may or may not still come. A "billion dollars" was always just a buzzword to grab tabloid headlines. AEW is probably still tracking towards something like a 4 year deal at $250 million per year, which will be the "billion dollar TV deal." I will admit that I am speculating, because I'm not in the boardroom, but I am very confident in saying that the fact that the TV deal is apparently being discussed at those numbers had very little to do with CM Punk, and if a new deal is not struck at that number, that will also have very little to do with CM Punk. By your own metrics, at this very moment, CM Punk could not even be considered AEW's "biggest star." That would be MJF and Adam Cole. But, the popularity of wrestlers is incredibly transient. Wrestling (both WWE and AEW) is an especially attractive television product as one of the last vestiges of live, weekly, appointment viewing in this era of cord-cutting. And that's only been amplified by the fact that it's strikeproof weekly TV content that never goes out of season, given what has been happening lately. FOX or some other television network is going to heap money on WWE at the first possible opportunity when that contract runs, even if Ronda Rousey is long gone. |
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Post by Cyno on Sept 6, 2023 13:46:12 GMT -5
Collision is going to have to go through a rebuilding period so they can figure out the style and direction of the show now. The good news is that now that Punk is no longer unilaterally saying who can be on the show and who can't, so you can have a much bigger selection of people showing up. While the soft brand split is over, I just don't want to see Collision become Dynamite: Saturday Edition. So I hope some of the regularly featured talent like Miro, Hobbs, Starks, and BCG continue to get the focus.
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Post by Cyno on Sept 6, 2023 13:47:22 GMT -5
When they do ratings for Dynamite, do they count Canadian viewership in the numbers? I am curious because here in Canada TSN stopped showing Collision. This is a big BOOOO to TSN. When the Collision shows were coming from Canadian cities we got to wtch them live on TSN. As soon as they started coming from the US, TSN moved the show to it's horrible app. Among people I know, there are at least 10 of us that would love to watch Collision but we won't use the app. I wonder how much viewership AEW is losing not having Collision available in Canada? Nielsen ratings are strictly for the US. It's why the big American networks hate it when a Canadian team makes it to a major sports championship: because the home market for that team isn't factored into the ratings at all and is usually a far lower number than usual. |
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on Sept 6, 2023 13:47:42 GMT -5
When they do ratings for Dynamite, do they count Canadian viewership in the numbers? I am curious because here in Canada TSN stopped showing Collision. This is a big BOOOO to TSN. When the Collision shows were coming from Canadian cities we got to wtch them live on TSN. As soon as they started coming from the US, TSN moved the show to it's horrible app. Among people I know, there are at least 10 of us that would love to watch Collision but we won't use the app. I wonder how much viewership AEW is losing not having Collision available in Canada? No, they don't. Nielsen television ratings are honestly about the most antiquated metric of trying to gauge a professional wrestling company's popularity in 2023. Obviously, they matter, but they're not the be all-end all they once were. AEW also has value in, say, being able to provide a shitton of streaming content for Max's library. Having branded partnerships with lucrative sponsors like DraftKings. Pulling in a large number of non-live viewers, either via DVR or WBD's various apps. So on and so forth. |
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
Fry's dog Seymour
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Posts: 24,415
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Sept 6, 2023 13:56:59 GMT -5
When they do ratings for Dynamite, do they count Canadian viewership in the numbers? I am curious because here in Canada TSN stopped showing Collision. This is a big BOOOO to TSN. When the Collision shows were coming from Canadian cities we got to wtch them live on TSN. As soon as they started coming from the US, TSN moved the show to it's horrible app. Among people I know, there are at least 10 of us that would love to watch Collision but we won't use the app. I wonder how much viewership AEW is losing not having Collision available in Canada? No, they don't. Nielsen television ratings are honestly about the most antiquated metric of trying to gauge a professional wrestling company's popularity in 2023. Obviously, they matter, but they're not the be all-end all they once were. AEW also has value in, say, being able to provide a shitton of streaming content for Max's library. Having branded partnerships with lucrative sponsors like DraftKings. Pulling in a large number of non-live viewers, either via DVR or WBD's various apps. So on and so forth. Wrestling fans have, for almost 30 years, been conditioned to measure success based entirely on Nielsen Data. Thanks, Vince & Eric. Anywho, AEW is fine (and not in the snarky ‘Bullet Club is FINE!’ way haha)…more than fine, actually, for a “pissant” “T-shirt company.” |
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XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,564
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Post by XIII on Sept 6, 2023 13:58:28 GMT -5
Literally just about everyone in this forum said that it would be low against WWE PPVs and college football.
I’m sure that Tony Khan and WBD knew this going in. 🤷🏻♂️
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2023 14:20:02 GMT -5
Not really. It's a shitty timeslot. And it's only going to get shittier over the next 3 months with college football raging on. Just in time for people to argue in bad faith that Collision started to falter after Punk's firing. Can't wait. I am curious how the live+DVR numbers stack up to Dynamite's. That's the metric that could really reveal how Collision is faring with the AEW fanbase, but that kind of data is becoming increasingly difficult to access. CM Punk should have been fired. No question about it. But it doesn’t take away from the fact that Punk still meant a ton to business. At the time of his firing he was one of four wrestlers who consistently drew television ratings. Just look at the quarter numbers from this week and compare them to every other Collision. The viewing audience was cut by 50% from Q1 to Q8. That is unheard of for all AEW television, let alone Collision. It’s the same viewing pattern AEW gets for Dynamite where people turn it off as the show progresses with some slight peaks. Punk constantly held onto viewers throughout the show and would peak with the main event. Not to mention the previous PPVs they went against were far higher profile than Payback. AEW is in a fight for the health of Collision as a TV product. They’ll need it to succeed for the 1 bil TV contract. I hope they can figure it out. Yeah there was a big drop off following the firing/announcement |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2023 14:22:09 GMT -5
No, they don't. Nielsen television ratings are honestly about the most antiquated metric of trying to gauge a professional wrestling company's popularity in 2023. Obviously, they matter, but they're not the be all-end all they once were. AEW also has value in, say, being able to provide a shitton of streaming content for Max's library. Having branded partnerships with lucrative sponsors like DraftKings. Pulling in a large number of non-live viewers, either via DVR or WBD's various apps. So on and so forth. Wrestling fans have, for almost 30 years, been conditioned to measure success based entirely on Nielsen Data. Thanks, Vince & Eric. Anywho, AEW is fine (and not in the snarky ‘Bullet Club is FINE!’ way haha)…more than fine, actually, for a “pissant” “T-shirt company.” One issue is the fact that they will always be "fine" and perceived as such due to the unlimited cash flow instead of judged accurately for the mistakes since inception. Everything is consistently brushed off because they are not going to fold under Khan's pocket book...It's frustrating to see as a fan of the "alternative" and obviously as we have seen it's hard for any real change to occur. |
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