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Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Oct 23, 2023 13:25:10 GMT -5
Kofi not wanting a rematch and pretty much not giving a shit was also part of what made the idea unforgivable. If Kofi got killed by the guy and got at least a rematch where he could put a fight, end up falling short, but then like Xavier and Big E console him post-match about how he foguht his ass off and get the crowd to go on in a "Thank you Kofi" chant or something, put him over for at least having the fight in him, and then he moves on? Nice swan song for the fan favorite underdog getting a run he was never meant to have. There was no need to do Kofi as dirty as they did him. And it’s weird, because Kofi had the exact match you’re describing he should have had with Lashley two years later. Yeah he lost, he got his ass kicked, but Kofi at least looked like something while actually making Lashley look tough as well.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Oct 23, 2023 13:33:14 GMT -5
WWE was in a real embarrassing phase for a while of effectively "humbling" their top black faces. And while that by itself is a consequence of WWE effectively being a heel territory nowadays and treating their faces like shit, the humbling of the black faces comes off as particularly mean-spirited. At least Bianca got to win the title back in a big match at Mania after getting embarrassed. Kofi literally just got thrown back to where was on the card like his title reign didn't even matter. And that's not me saying it didn't matter. That's literally how they positioned this dude afterwards!
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Post by Celexa Bliss on Oct 23, 2023 15:32:58 GMT -5
I don't have an issue with the squash in theory. But Kofi never felt like anything more than a midcard Champion. Had they actually put some effort into his title reign, giving him actual PPV main events, then you could justify a squash. But even then, four seconds was ridiculous. Money in the Bank cash-in matches have lasted longer than that.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on Oct 23, 2023 15:42:31 GMT -5
Dogshit ass opinion.
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kidkamikaze10
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Post by kidkamikaze10 on Oct 23, 2023 16:19:29 GMT -5
It deserves to be as unpopular as Triple H/Booker T being the right call.
Because it had a similar effect on a new audience.
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mo
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Post by mo on Oct 23, 2023 17:11:34 GMT -5
And then Kofi went back to the tag title division and Vince told him on national TV that the tag titles looked good on him. They never planned on Kofi being a long term main eventer and the Brock match was a good way of them telling you as such.
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Post by simplydurhamcalling on Oct 23, 2023 17:22:29 GMT -5
It felt stupid at the time and the fact they followed it up with no redemption story (or any story at all) for Kofi solidified it.
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Rudy Gobert Fadeaway
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Post by Rudy Gobert Fadeaway on Oct 23, 2023 17:47:46 GMT -5
Retired shirtless uncle Cain Velasquez getting a World Title match will never get old to me. 2019 was the AI booking era.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Oct 23, 2023 17:55:45 GMT -5
I'll be frank, if I wanted something to feel real or like MMA or boxing...I'd watch MMA or boxing. Well, less boxing because that feels like it's having its own "carnies realize they can draw more by having matches be choreographed" moment pro wrestling had. You can make things feel impactful and emotional without acting like it needs to be like actual sports. It was just bad booking. Diluted the entire Kofi story, just put Brock back on top for a pointless (but marketably logical) Cain Velazquez match for Saudi Arabia and there was, what, one segment of a follow up before it was dropped forever and Kofi was back in his place? It was the Royal Rumble 2015 except it was seconds instead of an hour plus. EDIT: And yes, his reign was mediocre but there have been worse reigns that got more dignified endings, that's not something to put at Kofi's feet. f***ing Jinder Mahal got a better send off of his title reign then Kofi, and Jinder is one of the worst world champions of all time.
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zed
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Post by zed on Oct 24, 2023 23:17:23 GMT -5
Daniel Bryan and Kofi Kingston had a great feud and it ended with a great match at WrestleMania.
I didn't watch the Lesnar vs Kingston match.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Oct 25, 2023 0:42:01 GMT -5
It deserves to be as unpopular as Triple H/Booker T being the right call. Because it had a similar effect on a new audience. It also led to a perception when Becky did it to Bianca later that maybe the WWE were just really racist, which, is probably not a perception WWE were wanting to garner, and probably played no small part in them pushing the living shit out of Bianca when people were calling them out, even if I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that the plan was always that Bianca was going to get revenge, at least.
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Post by Banjo Is Broken on Oct 25, 2023 2:10:46 GMT -5
There was no more time left on the show so they had to make it as quick as possible and Vince shot down the idea of Kofi being abducted by aliens right when the match was about to start.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Oct 25, 2023 7:47:58 GMT -5
The thing about so many terrible WWE booking decisions is that they're stupid and terrible on the surface, and then even worse when you start to peel the layers back Booking any, any,, ANY babyface world champion this way, is stupid. First of all, you put the world belt on this guy, for six months. And you killed him. Are you idiots? What the f*** is wrong with you? Don't you put the belt on guys who are stars, that make you money? Why would anyone cheer for Kofi now? He's been killed, at the highest level. I think squashes suck in actual named wrestler matches in basically every case anyway, I think they're even worse for title matches, even worse for world titles, and then doing it to a babyface? For why, the heat? All you're doing is killing your babyface. You've also told me that your world title matches aren't worth watching, because they might be nine seconds long. This is a catastrophically stupid decision, just from a business perspective, that also makes them look retroactively like f***ing morons for putting the WORLD TITLE on a guy they just wanted to kill off anyway. Peel one more layer back. Then there's the fact that Kofi was an internet darling who the WWE just threw on the altar of jacked UFC gammon so that he could wrestle the other jacked UFC retiree. Once again, destroying a home-grown, fan-beloved, full-time talent in favour of not just one but two part timers, one of whom was absolutely unproven except at lucha, which WWE were never going to let him do. So you've also told us that we should only give a shit when Brock shows up, rather than caring about any title reign by a full-time wrestler. Peel one more layer back, and you have Kofi as being one of the first black world champions in history (was he third? there's still only what, four or five on the list now?) jobbing out to, to quote the man himself, the 'white boy who's jacked', given what we know about the viewpoints and actions of VKM in reality? Yeah I don't like to criticise people for their opinions, they're opinions, but I'm with chazraps on this one.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Oct 26, 2023 19:49:36 GMT -5
The thing about so many terrible WWE booking decisions is that they're stupid and terrible on the surface, and then even worse when you start to peel the layers back Booking any, any,, ANY babyface world champion this way, is stupid. First of all, you put the world belt on this guy, for six months. And you killed him. Are you idiots? What the f*** is wrong with you? Don't you put the belt on guys who are stars, that make you money? Why would anyone cheer for Kofi now? He's been killed, at the highest level. I think squashes suck in actual named wrestler matches in basically every case anyway, I think they're even worse for title matches, even worse for world titles, and then doing it to a babyface? For why, the heat? All you're doing is killing your babyface. You've also told me that your world title matches aren't worth watching, because they might be nine seconds long. This is a catastrophically stupid decision, just from a business perspective, that also makes them look retroactively like f***ing morons for putting the WORLD TITLE on a guy they just wanted to kill off anyway. Peel one more layer back. Then there's the fact that Kofi was an internet darling who the WWE just threw on the altar of jacked UFC gammon so that he could wrestle the other jacked UFC retiree. Once again, destroying a home-grown, fan-beloved, full-time talent in favour of not just one but two part timers, one of whom was absolutely unproven except at lucha, which WWE were never going to let him do. So you've also told us that we should only give a shit when Brock shows up, rather than caring about any title reign by a full-time wrestler. Peel one more layer back, and you have Kofi as being one of the first black world champions in history (was he third? there's still only what, four or five on the list now?) jobbing out to, to quote the man himself, the 'white boy who's jacked', given what we know about the viewpoints and actions of VKM in reality? Yeah I don't like to criticise people for their opinions, they're opinions, but I'm with chazraps on this one. Second, after Rock, if we're talking specifically the WWE title, though there was also Booker T and Mark Henry winning the big gold World title. Right now, we're only at four for the WWE title, with Bobby Lashley and Big E rounding the list off.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Oct 27, 2023 0:21:08 GMT -5
The thing about so many terrible WWE booking decisions is that they're stupid and terrible on the surface, and then even worse when you start to peel the layers back Booking any, any,, ANY babyface world champion this way, is stupid. First of all, you put the world belt on this guy, for six months. And you killed him. Are you idiots? What the f*** is wrong with you? Don't you put the belt on guys who are stars, that make you money? Why would anyone cheer for Kofi now? He's been killed, at the highest level. I think squashes suck in actual named wrestler matches in basically every case anyway, I think they're even worse for title matches, even worse for world titles, and then doing it to a babyface? For why, the heat? All you're doing is killing your babyface. You've also told me that your world title matches aren't worth watching, because they might be nine seconds long. This is a catastrophically stupid decision, just from a business perspective, that also makes them look retroactively like f***ing morons for putting the WORLD TITLE on a guy they just wanted to kill off anyway. . I said it before...the CENA squash worked because it was JOHN CENA. he's been on top for over a decade and was basically bulletproof at that point.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Oct 27, 2023 0:26:44 GMT -5
It deserves to be as unpopular as Triple H/Booker T being the right call. Because it had a similar effect on a new audience. It also led to a perception when Becky did it to Bianca later that maybe the WWE were just really racist, which, is probably not a perception WWE were wanting to garner, and probably played no small part in them pushing the living shit out of Bianca when people were calling them out, even if I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt that the plan was always that Bianca was going to get revenge, at least. I think given Becky's later heel turn and the fact that they pushed Bianca hard before and after, means I give them the benefit of the doubt on that one too. With Kofi it was a sense of "there, you got what you wanted, now back to what we wanted". Which again, I kind of understand, if they'd done ANYTHING to protect him after the match
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Oct 27, 2023 2:16:40 GMT -5
The thing about so many terrible WWE booking decisions is that they're stupid and terrible on the surface, and then even worse when you start to peel the layers back Booking any, any,, ANY babyface world champion this way, is stupid. First of all, you put the world belt on this guy, for six months. And you killed him. Are you idiots? What the f*** is wrong with you? Don't you put the belt on guys who are stars, that make you money? Why would anyone cheer for Kofi now? He's been killed, at the highest level. I think squashes suck in actual named wrestler matches in basically every case anyway, I think they're even worse for title matches, even worse for world titles, and then doing it to a babyface? For why, the heat? All you're doing is killing your babyface. You've also told me that your world title matches aren't worth watching, because they might be nine seconds long. This is a catastrophically stupid decision, just from a business perspective, that also makes them look retroactively like f***ing morons for putting the WORLD TITLE on a guy they just wanted to kill off anyway. . I said it before...the CENA squash worked because it was JOHN CENA. he's been on top for over a decade and was basically bulletproof at that point. That's basically the exact exception that proves the rule, isn't it? And was a decent length match at that
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Nosnorb
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Post by Nosnorb on Oct 27, 2023 6:46:58 GMT -5
I said it before...the CENA squash worked because it was JOHN CENA. he's been on top for over a decade and was basically bulletproof at that point. That's basically the exact exception that proves the rule, isn't it? And was a decent length match at that 16 minutes, and John did get offense in on Beastie Boy including hitting an AA and putting him in the STF.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Oct 27, 2023 7:39:27 GMT -5
That's basically the exact exception that proves the rule, isn't it? And was a decent length match at that 16 minutes, and John did get offense in on Beastie Boy including hitting an AA and putting him in the STF. Exactly. It's also a great one to compare to, say, Vader beating Inoki. Cena never had matches like that. That was a changing of how he was being booked going forward. Doing it to someone of his kayfabe power level is legit shocking, same as what they did to Brock himself with Goldberg a little later. Doing it to Kofi, who was a lifelong midcarder until this specific title reign and its buildup, is just saying. 'We know we let you hold the ball for a while. Learn your place.'
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Oct 27, 2023 7:56:19 GMT -5
The Cena thing seems a bit weird in hindsight in how it might be one of the only times where the shock squash of an actual star was actually effective, yet on the other hand for many there was this cathartic schadenfreude of seeing Cena having to eat shit for once, paying for "his crimes" in going over other talents when they didn't want him to, so it kinda wasn't? Like you're not meant to be egging the monster on.
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