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Post by centeroftheuniverse on Nov 9, 2024 14:40:41 GMT -5
I wasn't meaning I expect her to leave soon, not at all, although I've said many times, I've always expected her to be done by 30, which is still like 4 and a half years, that was my just thinking and a side story that she's perhaps not quite as upbeat as she was earlier in the year, and if so, that would be somewhat understandable, but I was mainly meaning more from a WWE perspective in purposely booking her weak as a test with the losing record, losing streak, constantly beaten down, always looking at the lights etc. which is very rare for someone who is generally seen as a future star, to see how they react given their clear and obvious non wrestling background and known future aspirations and ambitions. Some can get over later, be better than expected and their booking subsequently change over the years, like an LA Knight, Trish or someone, but the Bianca's, Rhea's, Bron's, Charlotte's etc. people who were always likely to do well, be highly thought of, be pushed, and booked strongly from the off, you don't see m/any of them being 8-13 9 months into their rookie year, and I can't see Roxanne, Trick, Oba etc. like that either when they are called up. There's a lot of signs that she is very highly thought of - 4th in the rumble before officially being called up, multiple early PLEs, on a lot of promotional material now, part of fanatics (albeit as a late replacement), gets her fair share of new merch, and is at least prominent on TV, but her booking this past 6 or 7 months, and not just the 'MITB curse' hasn't exactly screamed 25 year old blue chip prospect who could be the future of the division and I was just wondering if it may be on purpose to see how she reacts to adversity. Probably still me looking into it too much and from their POV it's just typical MITB where they think she can afford to lose a lot (although Preist somehow managed to go 22-5 and 6-1 on TV during his time with the case...), but I was just throwing a theory out there (no pun intended).
Hmm, Rhea actually got booked pretty weakly from around August 2021-February 2022, including a 50-second pinfall loss to Zelina, even if it was presented as Nikki A.S.H's fault.
But at least she was a former champion at the time, and I can't remember it, but it would likely be a roll up and be presented and portrayed as a huge upset and to give Zelina a bit of momentum and a feather in her cap, whereas at the moment, any Tiffany win would feel like a massive upset and you just expect her to take L after L, and it's not a surprise at all when she loses. There's always a time when people will take more of a back seat and not be in the spotlight as much to give others a chance, well most people anyway, but this change of booking has come when Tiffany hasn't even 'made it' and past accomplishments can brush things off easier and be used to give others a boost. I don't really think anyone gets anything from pinning Tiffany at the moment. |
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Nov 9, 2024 15:07:41 GMT -5
I wasn't meaning I expect her to leave soon, not at all, although I've said many times, I've always expected her to be done by 30, which is still like 4 and a half years, that was my just thinking and a side story that she's perhaps not quite as upbeat as she was earlier in the year, and if so, that would be somewhat understandable, but I was mainly meaning more from a WWE perspective in purposely booking her weak as a test with the losing record, losing streak, constantly beaten down, always looking at the lights etc. which is very rare for someone who is generally seen as a future star, to see how they react given their clear and obvious non wrestling background and known future aspirations and ambitions. Some can get over later, be better than expected and their booking subsequently change over the years, like an LA Knight, Trish or someone, but the Bianca's, Rhea's, Bron's, Charlotte's etc. people who were always likely to do well, be highly thought of, be pushed, and booked strongly from the off, you don't see m/any of them being 8-13 9 months into their rookie year, and I can't see Roxanne, Trick, Oba etc. like that either when they are called up. There's a lot of signs that she is very highly thought of - 4th in the rumble before officially being called up, multiple early PLEs, on a lot of promotional material now, part of fanatics (albeit as a late replacement), gets her fair share of new merch, and is at least prominent on TV, but her booking this past 6 or 7 months, and not just the 'MITB curse' hasn't exactly screamed 25 year old blue chip prospect who could be the future of the division and I was just wondering if it may be on purpose to see how she reacts to adversity. Probably still me looking into it too much and from their POV it's just typical MITB where they think she can afford to lose a lot (although Preist somehow managed to go 22-5 and 6-1 on TV during his time with the case...), but I was just throwing a theory out there (no pun intended). Hmm, Rhea actually got booked pretty weakly from around August 2021-February 2022, including a 50-second pinfall loss to Zelina, even if it was presented as Nikki A.S.H's fault.
Even after turning heel and joining Judgement Day she wasn't booked that strong either, going 50/50 with Liv. Oddly enough it wasn't until she got injured that they strapped the rocket to her and started giving her Goddess booking. |
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Nov 9, 2024 15:13:03 GMT -5
Once Triple H got complete control over creative was when she started being booked super OOP.
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Post by centeroftheuniverse on Nov 9, 2024 15:29:54 GMT -5
So it was a roll up, and afterwards
Wow, wow
That's got to be considered a gigantic upset gentlemen
What just happened here, seriously
And Rhea beats her the week after.
I do think that's the main thing with this sudden change of booking. Nobody gets anything from beating Tiffany now. If Candice beat Tiffany by her moonsault in 2 weeks nobody would be surprised or bat an eyelid and it wouldn't even feel like a big win, whereas if she did the same to Jade it would feel a monumental upset. Presentation and portrayal means a lot, and Tiffany has lost that intrigue.
Like when Naomi beat Tiffany just before Backlash, her first loss on Smackdown, it did feel like a bit of a surprise, I think many suspected a DQ or an NC, whereas when Naomi beat her a few weeks ago and it didn't feel a big deal at all, and it's bad to lose that intrigue and aura in such a short period of time when she hasn't even 'made it' yet.
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Post by clc on Nov 9, 2024 15:50:01 GMT -5
Like, I can only think they want her to cash in on a babyface to keep her as a heel (in spite of the fact that the MITB cash ins almost always get a big babyface pop). And I still think we're waiting on Charlotte Flair's return for that. As much as online hates her for winning a lot (go figure, because that's exactly what everyone wants for their faves judging by the content of this thread and all the other stan threads here), she's gonna get a big babyface reaction when she does come back because she's always been presented like a big star, she's been away nearly a full year hurt, and the online hate has rarely carried over to the live crowds anyway except for when she was feuding with Becky Lynch. Well that’s another problem. If you want to do Charlotte vs. Tiffany, fine cool. But then you should be working even HARDER to make Tiff look credible. Not really. The MITB has been used to take the belt of Charlotte more than anyone. She loses via cash in to Carmella, Bayely, and Nikki ASH. Liv and IYO were also pretty weak when they cashed in. The only strongly booked women to use the brief case was Alexa Bliss. Even her post cash-in run wasn't too strong.
The brief case is just a way to take the belt of someone and protect them in the loss. I think it's likely Tifferson cashes in on someone more protected, like a Charlotte. Then goes on to be a weak/cowardly champion.
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A Little Doo Doo
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Post by A Little Doo Doo on Nov 9, 2024 16:52:32 GMT -5
"Nobody asked for your wannabe opinion!"
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Gawk Rivers
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Post by Gawk Rivers on Nov 9, 2024 16:57:20 GMT -5
Tifferson
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A Little Doo Doo
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Post by A Little Doo Doo on Nov 9, 2024 16:59:25 GMT -5
I hate that I'm unironically enjoying Nia Jax right now |
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Post by theironyuppie on Nov 9, 2024 22:19:19 GMT -5
Hmm, Rhea actually got booked pretty weakly from around August 2021-February 2022, including a 50-second pinfall loss to Zelina, even if it was presented as Nikki A.S.H's fault.
Even after turning heel and joining Judgement Day she wasn't booked that strong either, going 50/50 with Liv. Oddly enough it wasn't until she got injured that they strapped the rocket to her and started giving her Goddess booking.
Right. Plus the injury ended up preventing what was almost certainly going to be a clean loss to Bianca at MITB 2022 as the priority at the time was Bianca/Becky. But then a few factors ended up converging. Vince left for the first time, Rhea got to play her character closer to how she envisioned it (the 'Papi' thing originated in her social media, and she chose to wear the 'I'm Your Papi' shirt in her return segment), she appeared on TV every week while not being able to take bumps (she returned in July but wasn't cleared to wrestle until mid-October), started getting big moments like slamming Luke Gallows or confronting Beth Phoenix on top of starting to win Dom to the heel side, and fans got really behind her. She still lost some matches in late 2022 like Wargames and a Raw triple-threat with Bayley/Asuka, but those losses became very protected.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Nov 9, 2024 22:39:08 GMT -5
Even after turning heel and joining Judgement Day she wasn't booked that strong either, going 50/50 with Liv. Oddly enough it wasn't until she got injured that they strapped the rocket to her and started giving her Goddess booking. Right. Plus the injury ended up preventing what was almost certainly going to be a clean loss to Bianca at MITB 2022 as the priority at the time was Bianca/Becky. But then a few factors ended up converging. Vince left for the first time, Rhea got to play her character closer to how she envisioned it (the 'Papi' thing originated in her social media, and she chose to wear the 'I'm Your Papi' shirt in her return segment), she appeared on TV every week while not being able to take bumps (she returned in July but wasn't cleared to wrestle until mid-October), started getting big moments like slamming Luke Gallows or confronting Beth Phoenix on top of starting to win Dom to the heel side, and fans got really behind her. She still lost some matches in late 2022 like Wargames and a Raw triple-threat with Bayley/Asuka, but those losses became very protected.
And neither of those she was pinned so those don't matter. It's interesting to think how different the women's division would be if Vince doesn't step down. Rhea, Liv, and Iyo have all risen to main event status over the last few years. Do they still do? Does he go with different women? Bianca was pushed hard under both regimes so nothing would change much with her I'm sure he would want to push his usual favorites like Charlotte, Becky, and Alexa in the top spots as much as he could. However all three of them have missed a lot of time the last year for a variety of reasons (injuries, pregnancy, contract disputes) that he would kind of have to try to elevate people |
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Post by EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese on Nov 9, 2024 22:45:42 GMT -5
Right. Plus the injury ended up preventing what was almost certainly going to be a clean loss to Bianca at MITB 2022 as the priority at the time was Bianca/Becky. But then a few factors ended up converging. Vince left for the first time, Rhea got to play her character closer to how she envisioned it (the 'Papi' thing originated in her social media, and she chose to wear the 'I'm Your Papi' shirt in her return segment), she appeared on TV every week while not being able to take bumps (she returned in July but wasn't cleared to wrestle until mid-October), started getting big moments like slamming Luke Gallows or confronting Beth Phoenix on top of starting to win Dom to the heel side, and fans got really behind her. She still lost some matches in late 2022 like Wargames and a Raw triple-threat with Bayley/Asuka, but those losses became very protected.
And neither of those she was pinned so those don't matter. It's interesting to think how different the women's division would be if Vince doesn't step down. Rhea, Liv, and Iyo have all risen to main event status over the last few years. Do they still do? Does he go with different women? Bianca was pushed hard under both regimes so nothing would change much with her I'm sure he would want to push his usual favorites like Charlotte, Becky, and Alexa in the top spots as much as he could. However all three of them have missed a lot of time the last year for a variety of reasons (injuries, pregnancy, contract disputes) that he would kind of have to try to elevate people Probably would’ve hitched the wagons to Lacey Evans or some shit. |
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Nov 9, 2024 22:55:42 GMT -5
And neither of those she was pinned so those don't matter. It's interesting to think how different the women's division would be if Vince doesn't step down. Rhea, Liv, and Iyo have all risen to main event status over the last few years. Do they still do? Does he go with different women? Bianca was pushed hard under both regimes so nothing would change much with her I'm sure he would want to push his usual favorites like Charlotte, Becky, and Alexa in the top spots as much as he could. However all three of them have missed a lot of time the last year for a variety of reasons (injuries, pregnancy, contract disputes) that he would kind of have to try to elevate people Probably would’ve hitched the wagons to Lacey Evans or some shit. Maybe. They never really got that behind her though in all the years she was there though. Which is baffling as she was someone you would think Vince would've pushed to the moon. Mandy Rose was another one NXT run aside and that was likely more Shawn as I don't think Vince ever paid much attention to what was going on down there. |
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Post by EoE: Workin On My Night Cheese on Nov 10, 2024 5:16:12 GMT -5
As a frame of reference, I pulled up Carmella's stats as the Money In The Bank holder (officially the second run, because the first run was null and void within days as they had to redo the whole-ass match on SmackDown just to get her to actually get the damn briefcase herself), as that's the only other women's MITB run that has gone this long. She went 4-13-0 from her first TV match as the briefcase holder in August 2017 to her last match before her cash-in in April 2018, where in 10 of those losses she was the one taking the losing fall (the other three being a six woman tag in January 2018 with the Riott Squad where Tamina took the fall, the 2018 Royal Rumble and the battle royal on the WM34 preshow), so very similar to what Stratton is going through at the moment even though she wasn't the same blue-chip prospect that Stratton is (and it's also a completely different booker).
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Nov 10, 2024 11:31:44 GMT -5
I think most people acknowledge that WWE tends to book MITB holders like this a lot.
They just don’t like it. And with Triple H wanting to STRETCH everything out for ages, it feels repetitive now as well.
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gl83
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Post by gl83 on Nov 10, 2024 12:19:54 GMT -5
As a frame of reference, I pulled up Carmella's stats as the Money In The Bank holder (officially the second run, because the first run was null and void within days as they had to redo the whole-ass match on SmackDown just to get her to actually get the damn briefcase herself), as that's the only other women's MITB run that has gone this long. She went 4-13-0 from her first TV match as the briefcase holder in August 2017 to her last match before her cash-in in April 2018, where in 10 of those losses she was the one taking the losing fall (the other three being a six woman tag in January 2018 with the Riott Squad where Tamina took the fall, the 2018 Royal Rumble and the battle royal on the WM34 preshow), so very similar to what Stratton is going through at the moment even though she wasn't the same blue-chip prospect that Stratton is (and it's also a completely different booker). To be fair, Carmella was booked as a loser before winning MITB, so there wasn’t much of a shift there. Compare that to Tiffany, who went from undefeated streak earlier this year to can’t even buy a win after winning MITB is like booking whiplash. |
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Nov 10, 2024 12:36:31 GMT -5
Also let’s be honest, Tiffany is just better in ring than Carmella as well.
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Post by PHD-FENDERBAUM on Nov 10, 2024 12:37:59 GMT -5
Right. Plus the injury ended up preventing what was almost certainly going to be a clean loss to Bianca at MITB 2022 as the priority at the time was Bianca/Becky. But then a few factors ended up converging. Vince left for the first time, Rhea got to play her character closer to how she envisioned it (the 'Papi' thing originated in her social media, and she chose to wear the 'I'm Your Papi' shirt in her return segment), she appeared on TV every week while not being able to take bumps (she returned in July but wasn't cleared to wrestle until mid-October), started getting big moments like slamming Luke Gallows or confronting Beth Phoenix on top of starting to win Dom to the heel side, and fans got really behind her. She still lost some matches in late 2022 like Wargames and a Raw triple-threat with Bayley/Asuka, but those losses became very protected.
And neither of those she was pinned so those don't matter. It's interesting to think how different the women's division would be if Vince doesn't step down. Rhea, Liv, and Iyo have all risen to main event status over the last few years. Do they still do? Does he go with different women? Bianca was pushed hard under both regimes so nothing would change much with her I'm sure he would want to push his usual favorites like Charlotte, Becky, and Alexa in the top spots as much as he could. However all three of them have missed a lot of time the last year for a variety of reasons (injuries, pregnancy, contract disputes) that he would kind of have to try to elevate people If Vince was never outted IYO is not in WWE today she was going back to STARDOM before HHH took over. And that scenario would have been hella interesting considering how much the Joshi landscape changed in the following years |
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Post by theironyuppie on Nov 10, 2024 23:05:59 GMT -5
Probably would’ve hitched the wagons to Lacey Evans or some shit. Maybe. They never really got that behind her though in all the years she was there though. Which is baffling as she was someone you would think Vince would've pushed to the moon. Mandy Rose was another one NXT run aside and that was likely more Shawn as I don't think Vince ever paid much attention to what was going on down there.
Lacey got the worst of both worlds in that there were always rumours she was going to be pushed super hard, but her actual booking didn't really back it up, especially later on when there was confusion about what her alignment was or even what show she was on.
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Post by froggyfrog on Nov 11, 2024 15:21:08 GMT -5
And neither of those she was pinned so those don't matter. It's interesting to think how different the women's division would be if Vince doesn't step down. Rhea, Liv, and Iyo have all risen to main event status over the last few years. Do they still do? Does he go with different women? Bianca was pushed hard under both regimes so nothing would change much with her I'm sure he would want to push his usual favorites like Charlotte, Becky, and Alexa in the top spots as much as he could. However all three of them have missed a lot of time the last year for a variety of reasons (injuries, pregnancy, contract disputes) that he would kind of have to try to elevate people If Vince was never outted IYO is not in WWE today she was going back to STARDOM before HHH took over. And that scenario would have been hella interesting considering how much the Joshi landscape changed in the following years Curious what’s the source on that? Interesting to think about to say the least |
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Post by PHD-FENDERBAUM on Nov 11, 2024 15:33:58 GMT -5
If Vince was never outted IYO is not in WWE today she was going back to STARDOM before HHH took over. And that scenario would have been hella interesting considering how much the Joshi landscape changed in the following years Curious what’s the source on that? Interesting to think about to say the least Source is IYO herself. www.si.com/wrestling/iyo-sky-wwe-dakota-kai-early-criticism-damage-ctrl-exclusive |
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