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Post by lockedontarget on Mar 15, 2024 3:19:11 GMT -5
The shows have been better, the presentation literally just got upgraded and changed two weeks ago, and they are not TNA and "Signing all these former WWE talents", Okada and Ospreay never even were in WWE. Of course they will however, sign WWE talents, as WWE will sign AEW talents, but that doesn't fit your narrative argument you're trying to create here with false equivalencies to their supposed "failure" as you will also ignore all the talents who were never in WWE that they've been able to organically create. Wrestling is a fluid business and AEW started with almost no WWE talents because almost none existed on the market, contracts end, for both parties, and talents leave, and now guys who started in AEW and were in WWE four years ago, some have switched, and some have happily gone elsewhere that aren't WWE or AEW. You wanna know why people are downright exhausted with ratings threads in the AEW Board lately? These posts are why. You aren't actually giving any constructive criticism about the product, you're guising it behind a victory lap so you can essentially boast about why a company you likely never wanted to succeed in the first place isn't delivering the ratings 42,000 boxes around the US dictate they should be. This is only conflated by users who very obviously and blatantly come into the AEW Board to only dunk on the product and or the ratings, and curiously, never comment on anything else positive, and then leave again... really comes across like your comments are genuine and you really want what's best for the product and wrestling as a whole when that's your blatant post pattern, it's not frustrating at all for frequent attenders or fans of AEW or this board at all... I mean, I am giving constructive criticism? Saying how AEW have to change their creative and writing, that's constructive criticism, right? If the show was better, people would be tuning in in droves like they were before, attendance and ratings wouldn't be in a downward spiral. It easy to just say "the show is better," but it's not bringing in the same viewers there were years ago. Why is that? And no, it has NOTHING to do with Neilsen boxes because WWE have been averaging similar ratings for the last few years now. Quality and mainstream success aren’t really the same thing. Unless you want to argue that Nickelback is one of the best bands of all time and Candy Crush is peak video games, I really am not a fan of the “if the show was better the ratings would be better”. Quality is only one small part of why art and media might perform well. The show IS good. That doesn’t guarantee an increase in ratings.
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Post by stoptheclocks on Mar 15, 2024 3:43:49 GMT -5
Well…WWE sure is hot, huh? And I only say that kinda jokingly. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that when WWE’s brand is the hottest it’s been in years, the ex big WWE star pops a milli but then folks just aren’t that interested to stick around. The product is cold. You can pull the nose up with strong booking and actual stories but it is going to take a while. Like, 3-4 months at least. Not to mention they get a lot of leeway. Aforementioned lack of ratings threads Booker T saying he had a confrontation with Punk at an NXT taping. If it was AEW I'd be looking at page 77 by now. Currently? Nada. You genuinely can't have been on the WWE board if you think they are immune from criticism on any subject. There used to be huge discussions on ratings and where they are going wrong every week. If anything, one of the reasons they don't get the same traction now is because their ratings have been steadily improving (all the quarterly YoY comparisons on Wrestlenomics for Raw, Smackdown and NXT are showing increases and have been for a couple of years now). And 'here's what [x] can do better' is always going to get more engagement than 'here's what [x] are doing well'. Ultimately people are interested in AEW's growth as a relatively new company and what their ceiling might be. They were when all the arrows were pointing up too. Whatever people think of how the ratings are calculated, they are good enough for the people spending billions on TV and advertising. And certainly a more statistically valid sample than gauging reactions from here or Twitter. They also seem to sync pretty well with ticket sales, which is one of the only other publicly available data points about AEW's business. But, and it can only be said so many times, none of this should affect your enjoyment of the show. Or even your enjoyment of this board. It's one - clearly labelled - thread per week you just don't have to click on.
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Post by stoptheclocks on Mar 15, 2024 3:54:25 GMT -5
On this show itself - I'm a little surprised as I'd always considered Sasha/Mercedes as a bit overhyped when it comes to being someone who would be an actual draw. She's obviously fantastic and a star within wrestling, but they gave her the full CM Punk treatment with this debut and she held up her end of the bargain with a great number.
The main event... I just don't really get it. Last week's was a foregone conclusion of a result, this week's was two people who barely feature on Dynamite. And it doesn't really feel like the intention is for any of Kyle Fletcher/Riho/Willow to have a rocket strapped to them to where they could legitimately be main event level stars in the near future.
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Post by daaave on Mar 15, 2024 4:19:04 GMT -5
Dynamite main events are usually not the biggest match of the card. First hour is where the best and most important stuff is. You assume that's by design due to data they have.
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Post by eJm on Mar 15, 2024 5:07:41 GMT -5
Just popping in to say that they placed #3 in the night in the demos when they were #11 this time last year and that’s the real thing WBD actually cares about.
Probably brought up already but these things are never fun and the arguments are always needless so I’m going to leave and never come back.
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
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Post by lucas_lee on Mar 15, 2024 6:24:11 GMT -5
I mean I get the drop because Willow vs. Riho is just kind of demonstrably on paper the most filling filler to ever fill. Nothing against either of them but neither's exactly a hugely relevant player that's a major presence week to week. Best I could find this is only Willow's seventh Dynamite appearance in the past year and only the third time she's ever won a singles match on it. People have to be built up if the audience is going to care about them. It's the consequence of not building any women besides Toni and leaving them to have stories on Collision/Rampage. If you don't watch those shows you'd have no idea Williow is riding with Stoke.
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Post by mikehhh1 on Mar 15, 2024 6:25:13 GMT -5
why are people pretending she drew 1 million on her own... the big bang theory always give 900k plus its the 2nd number to look at
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mrbananagrabber
King Koopa
Paul Heyman's unofficial joke writer
Posts: 11,793
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Mar 15, 2024 6:43:23 GMT -5
why are people pretending she drew 1 million on her own... the big bang theory always give 900k plus its the 2nd number to look at Even going by that, it’s still a high number. People clearly tuned in to see if she would debut. She did then they ended up bailing by the second hour. That’s its own discussion why they didn’t stick around but a lot of people clearly wanted to see if she would show.
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Post by mikehhh1 on Mar 15, 2024 6:44:55 GMT -5
they got 980k lead in 2 weeks ago. and over million in jan.
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Post by polarbearpete on Mar 15, 2024 6:54:04 GMT -5
Really? Why are people here getting butthurt about the low ratings or taking to heart when people give criticism about the show or something. Dynamite was a awesome show, after the show was over, I went on to do other things, not really caring what other people thought of it or what the ratings will be tomorrow. I just don’t care. I enjoye the show. Why is there a big argument about “Neilson boxe matters! Or don’t matter” or whatever. It just looks really silly. When do people ever have a strong argument about “neilson boxes” in normal conversation? lol. If you enjoy the show then you enjoyed the show, just move on? People have talked about Nielson boxes being an issue for a very long time, it's just something that always falls into the ratings discourse topics because of how people treat them as gospel, especially when not all people in the thread are giving simple criticisms but saying false equivalency's like "AEW is now TNA". And most people will simply move on and enjoy the product, these threads nor the ratings change I or most peoples thoughts on what AEW is doing or how it's doing it, but it is noticeable when we get comments by people who never ever come into these threads to enjoy AEW, comment on it in any positive way, and then seemingly wait for the ratings threads to throw out some narratives and disguise them as "criticism" about the company, leave, and wait for that cycle again. And that is, more often than not, how these threads can spiral after a few pages when a number doesn't look pretty enough, it's why I can't wait for a new big Warner deal and hope it happens soon, because it'll be nice to see ratings and simply go "Well AEW's good for 5-10 years no matter what" much like how WWE's ratings threads went when they got their deals. If you know the content of the thread and you don’t like the discourse, then you don’t have to read the ratings threads. It’s a fair thing to talk about, and it’s been something that’s been dissected for the last 30 years.
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Kalmia
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Post by Kalmia on Mar 15, 2024 7:19:38 GMT -5
If anyone thinks that AEW getting a good deal is going to stop the ratings discourse, I have bad news for you.
AEW could get paid $10 billion a year and have glowing press releases released every week but if the ratings don't hit some abritrary number, then the discourse will go on and on.
And if AEW do hit that number, a new number will be picked.
It's not so much the case here, but there are just a group of people that will always find some metric that proves that AEW is in the mud (or whatever dumb phrase gets used)
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Post by eJm on Mar 15, 2024 7:40:46 GMT -5
If anyone thinks that AEW getting a good deal is going to stop the ratings discourse, I have bad news for you. AEW could get paid $10 billion a year and have glowing press releases released every week but if the ratings don't hit some abritrary number, then the discourse will go on and on. And if AEW do hit that number, a new number will be picked. It's not so much the case here, but there are just a group of people that will always find some metric that proves that AEW is in the mud (or whatever dumb phrase gets used) I know I said I wouldn’t come back here but that’s the most annoying thing about this discourse on both sides. By all accounts, from everything we know, AEW is doing good. It could be great, sure, but I remember constant stories in the late 2000s/mid 2010s of USA wondering why the numbers were dipping on Raw and asking for the McMahons to show up or for more guest hosts or for them to give away a literal million dollars on air. That hasn’t happened as much with Turner, if at all. If anything, AEW’s let WBD involved with programming choices, the layout of shows, the staging etc which is both a good strategy of building good will and a great way of getting yourself a better deal in the long term. I also really don’t think 700,00 - 800,000 a week would stop other companies from bidding if WBD for some weird reason decides to not renew when there are shows like Only Sunny in Philadelphia that has gone on for years on FX and Rob McElhenney would literally kill Ryan Reynolds and take full control of Wrexham FC for around the same numbers Dynamite gets. If someone can answer me why 1m a week is important while their broadcasting partners are happy and they’re getting companies like SEGA and brands like Game of Thrones and associations with Shark Week to do things on shows, I’m happy to hear it because all over the place I’m seeing it and nobody’s given a good reason.
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dbsot
Bubba Ho-Tep
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Post by dbsot on Mar 15, 2024 7:41:56 GMT -5
If anyone thinks that AEW getting a good deal is going to stop the ratings discourse, I have bad news for you. AEW could get paid $10 billion a year and have glowing press releases released every week but if the ratings don't hit some abritrary number, then the discourse will go on and on. And if AEW do hit that number, a new number will be picked. It's not so much the case here, but there are just a group of people that will always find some metric that proves that AEW is in the mud (or whatever dumb phrase gets used) The discourse is mostly comparing AEW to WWE shows. I wonder if that changes next year when Raw is on Netflix and Smackdown drops to Raw's current ratings on USA. Sadly, this debate will probably turn into a discussion about social media numbers and views.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 15, 2024 8:03:02 GMT -5
People have talked about Nielson boxes being an issue for a very long time, it's just something that always falls into the ratings discourse topics because of how people treat them as gospel, especially when not all people in the thread are giving simple criticisms but saying false equivalency's like "AEW is now TNA". And most people will simply move on and enjoy the product, these threads nor the ratings change I or most peoples thoughts on what AEW is doing or how it's doing it, but it is noticeable when we get comments by people who never ever come into these threads to enjoy AEW, comment on it in any positive way, and then seemingly wait for the ratings threads to throw out some narratives and disguise them as "criticism" about the company, leave, and wait for that cycle again. And that is, more often than not, how these threads can spiral after a few pages when a number doesn't look pretty enough, it's why I can't wait for a new big Warner deal and hope it happens soon, because it'll be nice to see ratings and simply go "Well AEW's good for 5-10 years no matter what" much like how WWE's ratings threads went when they got their deals. If you know the content of the thread and you don’t like the discourse, then you don’t have to read the ratings threads. It’s a fair thing to talk about, and it’s been something that’s been dissected for the last 30 years. Never said it wasn't fair, just think that the strawman arguments or false equivalencies go over the top any time "number bad" for AEW or not up to the bar some people want I actually enjoy studying numbers but when it becomes a make or break for some people each week to post their hot takes on the product and how wrong they're doing things or how much a talent doesn't deserve the spot they got it's a bit exhausting I think it's fair to point out the patterns in these threads as others have before and after me as well. And it's especially glaring when AEW's number is better and we get not even two pages of dialogue, it's not all "fair discussion" when we're getting to that point of difference when a number is higher or lower imo
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
Writer, Lover of all things Wrestling. Analytical, Critical, Lovable (hopefully). Lets all have fun!
Posts: 235,051
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Mar 15, 2024 8:07:14 GMT -5
If anyone thinks that AEW getting a good deal is going to stop the ratings discourse, I have bad news for you. AEW could get paid $10 billion a year and have glowing press releases released every week but if the ratings don't hit some abritrary number, then the discourse will go on and on. And if AEW do hit that number, a new number will be picked. It's not so much the case here, but there are just a group of people that will always find some metric that proves that AEW is in the mud (or whatever dumb phrase gets used) It's why I comment here for wrestling topics and really here alone I commented I thought the CEO Chant was cool and how everyone catching on quick to the chant was neat on Twitter to the ALL ELITE graphic for Mercedes and got dozens of comments going "WELL IT'S IN THE SONG IDIOT, THEY GOT CHEERLEADED TO IT, WHAT A F***IG CHILD YOU ARE IF YOU NEED THIS EXPLAINED TO YOU", deleted it, and reinforced why I almost never comment on wrestling outside of here, because it's completely f***ing pointless. Nobody hates wrestling more than the actual proclaimed fans of wrestling. And I know the discourse won't stop with a new deal, but boy will it be MUCH easier to tune out.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Mar 15, 2024 8:09:52 GMT -5
I said it in the thread last week. They just gotta stay the course and keep doing what they’re doing. They’ve got the talent, they’ve got a vision of what they want to be (and don’t forget, they tried being more like the market leader and it didn’t work) and the network is happy with them.
I’m not going to suggest what they could do better in terms of creative, because I’m absolutely the wrong person to ask. My perspective is warped by years of stats analysis and “Fixing Problem A exacerbates Problem B” lizard brain. But they seem to be doing fine there too?
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Post by polarbearpete on Mar 15, 2024 8:43:49 GMT -5
If anyone thinks that AEW getting a good deal is going to stop the ratings discourse, I have bad news for you. AEW could get paid $10 billion a year and have glowing press releases released every week but if the ratings don't hit some abritrary number, then the discourse will go on and on. And if AEW do hit that number, a new number will be picked. It's not so much the case here, but there are just a group of people that will always find some metric that proves that AEW is in the mud (or whatever dumb phrase gets used) I do think that, apart from greatly increasing or decreasing ratings trends, once they do get a big new deal from WBD that the discourse on ratings will subside at least here.
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Post by stoptheclocks on Mar 15, 2024 9:11:58 GMT -5
Just popping in to say that they placed #3 in the night in the demos when they were #11 this time last year and that’s the real thing WBD actually cares about. Probably brought up already but these things are never fun and the arguments are always needless so I’m going to leave and never come back. I wouldn't claim to know what WBD think, not least because they're a giant organisation where many people think many different things. But I'd be very surprised if the thing they 'actually care about' is how this week's ranking arbitrarily compares to one week from last year. FWIW (and I don't think it's worth a lot) that show had 50k more viewers and was up against March Madness.
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
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Post by lucas_lee on Mar 15, 2024 9:15:09 GMT -5
The way I look at these threads are: just because people discuss ratings, it shouldn't take away your enjoyment of the show. If it does don't come into these threads you're doing yourself no favors. People have been discussing ratings since the MNW and it probably won't stop until everyone is streaming platform exclusive.
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Post by eJm on Mar 15, 2024 9:17:52 GMT -5
The way I look at these threads are: just because people discuss ratings, it shouldn't take away your enjoyment of the show. If it does don't come into these threads you're doing yourself no favors. People have been discussing ratings since the MNW and it probably won't stop until everyone is streaming platform exclusive. And then the discussion will be “How inflated would the numbers streaming platforms give?”
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