|
Post by James Fabiano on May 1, 2024 10:39:48 GMT -5
Zack Ryder in WWE...Matt Cardona everywhere else?
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on May 1, 2024 10:59:20 GMT -5
For awhile, that was nearly the fate of Alex Shelley in TNA compared to his run in ROH - he showed up sometimes in ROH around late 2003, but by mid 2004 he's there full time as the leader of Generation Next, and primed to go on a run for the World Title (which was why it doubly shocked people when Aries beat Samoa Joe, instead).
At the same time he was getting into TNA and at first they had Goldilocks as his manager while they had Abyss as their muscle; she'd call Shelley her "Baby Bear", and the name nearly stuck in a way that could've hurt him moving forward - good for heel heat, but you know how stuff like that goes if left unchecked.
Eventually, though, Scott D'Amore becoming the head booker for awhile in TNA meant Shelley was going to get a better chance to show his stuff, so by 2005 he was getting highlighted more and eventually got paired up with Kevin Nash for the Paparazzi Productions stuff, all of which builds to the Motor City Machine Guns getting together and thus making his TNA run a success.
|
|
|
Post by Stu on May 1, 2024 11:10:09 GMT -5
Shouldn't this be more about "Riches to rags?" It makes sense for people to start out low and work their way up as they learn and improve.
|
|
|
Post by karl100589 on May 1, 2024 11:32:40 GMT -5
DDP was a multi-time WCW champion. His WWE run was less than stellar. Same for Vader. From absolute monster in WCW to "just a fat piece of shit" in WWE. Vader never reached the highs of WCW, but he was for a good time positioned as a main event threat. The big things that hurt him was Shawn’s politics, Kuwait and a fresher monster (Kane) taking his place.
|
|
El Pollo Guerrera
Grimlock
His name has chicken in it, and he is good at makin' .gifs, so that's cool.
Status: Runner
Posts: 14,740
Member is Online
|
Post by El Pollo Guerrera on May 1, 2024 11:56:42 GMT -5
This can be said for a lot of the ECW guys when they went to WWE or WCW in the late 90s into the end. Mike Awesome World Champion in ECW to that 70s guy fat chick thriller. Taz went from the suplex machine badass to midcarder by mid 00 to anouncer. Justin Credible ECW World Champion to a jobber to the stars midcard stable with Xpac Lance Storm had a good run in ECW and WCW, started ok in WWE than went to jobber to the stars with the boring gimmick. Tommy Dreamer Top guy in ECW to lower card guy in WWE. The Sandman see Tommy Dreamer Super Crazy amazing in ECW to WWE given a racist gimmick as Mexicools and than a jobber to the stars. Jerry Lynn pushed to the top in ECW to WWE had light weight title run but was only on B and C shows. Hardly ever saw him on Raw or Smackdown. Raven: See above post Dean Malenko: Short but good run in ECW, was pushed hard in WCW for the Crusiwerweight divison. WWE low card and only remember for really stalking Lita and getting beat up by her and the Hardys in a hotel. Rob Van Dam and the Dudleys must be the only ECW guys who kept their momentum. Tajiri, slow start in the WWF/E but picked up a lot when he got a chance to shine.
|
|
XIII
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,565
Member is Online
|
Post by XIII on May 1, 2024 12:13:35 GMT -5
Big Poppa Pump from WCW menace to teaming/feuding with Test then back to riches in TNA where he cut the greatest promo of all time: STEINER MATH.
|
|
|
Post by dirtyoldman on May 1, 2024 12:36:36 GMT -5
Rob Van Dam and the Dudleys must be the only ECW guys who kept their momentum. Tajiri, slow start in the WWF/E but picked up a lot when he got a chance to shine. Good call
|
|
|
Post by James Fabiano on May 1, 2024 13:13:59 GMT -5
Same for Vader. From absolute monster in WCW to "just a fat piece of shit" in WWE. Vader never reached the highs of WCW, but he was for a good time positioned as a main event threat. The big things that hurt him was Shawn’s politics, Kuwait and a fresher monster (Kane) taking his place. Being at the heights of WCW probably didn't help too. I am sure that prejudice has been well documented in this thread. EDIT: I see it has been touched upon, a little. But not only is WWF/E being the "big time" part of it, it's Vince refusing, usually, to recognize anyone else's big time. As I've said I'm sure tons of time, if you were someone else's creation or someone else's star, unless you get enough of a WWF/E style makeover, chances are you'll be treated as a second-class citizen. Maybe lower. And the "makeover" doesn't always guarantee a push there...sup, Red Rooster? This mentality tanked the Invasion angle, we all know that. Affected what would be major signings for WWE in the years after. And it still happens today, but mainly with, oddly enough, WWE's own developmental brand. If you were on top of NXT, chances are it won't happen on the main roster. Wasn't Vince's idea or creation. (that could change now, obviously)
|
|
|
Post by James Fabiano on May 1, 2024 13:21:55 GMT -5
Mean Mark Callous becomes the Freaking Undertaker. Stunning Steve Austin loses his momentum in WCW, and after a cup of coffee in ECW and a bad first year in WWF, becomes the equally Freaking Stone Cold Steve Austin. Diamond Studd becomes Razor Ramon
ECW has a ton of these Aldo Montoya becomes Justin Credible Leif Cassidy becomes Al Snow (w/Head) Midcard Shane Douglas becomes The Franchise WWF manager Johnny Polo becomes Raven Bodydonna Skip goes back to being No Gimmicks Needed, Chris Candido WCW midcarder Chris Benoit becomes The Crippler (leading to him getting a somewhat better push second time around in WCW, and let's not go too far from that) Fake Undertaker goes back to being Brian Lee, gets big push in TWO heel stables For a brief time, Terry Gordy through ECW booking looked like his old self after his personal tragedies
|
|
|
Post by James Fabiano on May 1, 2024 13:27:59 GMT -5
Then you have when they're intended to be rags to riches story, and it doesn't work.
Three words: HORSEMAN PAUL ROMA.
|
|
chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 84,914
Member is Online
|
Post by chrom on May 1, 2024 13:29:55 GMT -5
Vader never reached the highs of WCW, but he was for a good time positioned as a main event threat. The big things that hurt him was Shawn’s politics, Kuwait and a fresher monster (Kane) taking his place. Being at the heights of WCW probably didn't help too. I am sure that prejudice has been well documented in this thread. EDIT: I see it has been touched upon, a little. But not only is WWF/E being the "big time" part of it, it's Vince refusing, usually, to recognize anyone else's big time. As I've said I'm sure tons of time, if you were someone else's creation or someone else's star, unless you get enough of a WWF/E style makeover, chances are you'll be treated as a second-class citizen. Maybe lower. And the "makeover" doesn't always guarantee a push there...sup, Red Rooster? This mentality tanked the Invasion angle, we all know that. Affected what would be major signings for WWE in the years after. And it still happens today, but mainly with, oddly enough, WWE's own developmental brand. If you were on top of NXT, chances are it won't happen on the main roster. Wasn't Vince's idea or creation. (that could change now, obviously) When he first started his global expansion, one of the first things he did was act and portray that WWF was the only wrestling promotion in the entire world. Given he had the advantage of being viewed by most of the country, most viewers believed him. Anyone who came in from say Crockett, Mid-South or World Class was treated like an unknown
|
|
|
Post by James Fabiano on May 1, 2024 13:30:26 GMT -5
Being at the heights of WCW probably didn't help too. I am sure that prejudice has been well documented in this thread. EDIT: I see it has been touched upon, a little. But not only is WWF/E being the "big time" part of it, it's Vince refusing, usually, to recognize anyone else's big time. As I've said I'm sure tons of time, if you were someone else's creation or someone else's star, unless you get enough of a WWF/E style makeover, chances are you'll be treated as a second-class citizen. Maybe lower. And the "makeover" doesn't always guarantee a push there...sup, Red Rooster? This mentality tanked the Invasion angle, we all know that. Affected what would be major signings for WWE in the years after. And it still happens today, but mainly with, oddly enough, WWE's own developmental brand. If you were on top of NXT, chances are it won't happen on the main roster. Wasn't Vince's idea or creation. (that could change now, obviously) When he first started his global expansion, one of the first things he did was act and portray that WWF was the only wrestling promotion in the entire world. Given he had the advantage of being viewed by most of the country, most viewers believed him. Anyone who came in from say Crockett, Mid-South or World Class was treated like an unknown Fans yes. But that also held true for the people INSIDE THE COMPANY.
|
|
Jake, The Jake, Jake
Dennis Stamp
Will never EVER get a personal title. Ever. Nope. Never. Not a chance. No way, no how.
Posts: 3,726
|
Post by Jake, The Jake, Jake on May 1, 2024 13:33:22 GMT -5
Shouldn't this be more about "Riches to rags?" It makes sense for people to start out low and work their way up as they learn and improve. Iron Sheik in wcw
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on May 1, 2024 13:38:20 GMT -5
Taya Valkyrie in both WWE and AEW. Felt like she was a big nothingburger in WWE and while she initially got a decent push in AEW, she was a victim to the limited women's division time and roster bloat.
|
|
|
Post by James Fabiano on May 1, 2024 14:15:51 GMT -5
Taka Michinoku.....from his role in Michinoku Pro to choppy choppy your pee pee.
|
|
wildojinx
Wade Wilson
Posts: 26,864
Member is Online
|
Post by wildojinx on May 1, 2024 17:29:08 GMT -5
[ Something I’ve been very interested in lately is seeing all the territory guys that were mid card or lower that WWE was never interested in or never signed. A ton of guys who seemingly were doing well for themselves in their own territory disappeared alongside it Yeah, guys like Buzz Tyler, Eric Embry, Gary Young, Rip Oliver (though he briefly worked WWF as a jobber), Manny Fernandez (though the whole stolen valor thing may have caused them to not want the bad publicity), etc, were all decent sized territory stars who faded into obscurity aside from hardcore fans when their territories faded.
|
|
|
Post by James Fabiano on May 1, 2024 17:55:45 GMT -5
"Stolen valor"?
|
|
|
Post by PHD-FENDERBAUM on May 1, 2024 17:59:52 GMT -5
Taya Valkyrie in both WWE and AEW. Felt like she was a big nothingburger in WWE and while she initially got a decent push in AEW, she was a victim to the limited women's division time and roster bloat. You can apply this to alot of the LU talent post and of course pre LU.
|
|
|
Post by Feyrhausen on May 1, 2024 18:33:25 GMT -5
So many examples are guys who were big in one promotion and then mid card or lower once they got to WWE. Are there any examples of the opposite? Big in WWE, but lesser elsewhere? I’d assume once you make it in WWE you instantly have credibility everywhere else. Trying to come up with one and none are coming to mind Bret Hart. Came into WCW as a big deal but then fell victim to the politics.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,123
|
Post by Mozenrath on May 1, 2024 18:42:20 GMT -5
Manny Fernandez is essentially an infamous bullshit artist who constantly makes shit up, and stolen valor is when someone presents themselves as having a military history (especially seeing combat) that did not happen. Sergeant Slaughter is sort of a grey area in that respect, with him not being a serviceman, but I am unclear on if Robert Remus has attempted to present himself as a veteran, or if it has always been the character of Sgt. Slaughter and the character alone where there's the fictitious military career.
|
|