Mozenrath
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Posts: 121,123
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Post by Mozenrath on May 2, 2024 22:31:34 GMT -5
Okada in TNA is up there, though excursions are sort of unusual cases. Given the wrestler is there to learn, and is not expected to remain with the company, they don't usually get handed the world on a silver platter. Still, it was egregious enough to annoy NJPW, as was their use of SANADA (even if he got it way better than Okada did), and damaged the relationship between the companies for quite some time, along with other perceived disrespect. SANADA wasn't in NJPW when he was in TNA, he was in Wrestle-1. Plus, it was after TNA's & NJPW's relationship had soured. Ah, right, was Muta that they pissed off with that one. Been a bit.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on May 2, 2024 22:34:03 GMT -5
Bret Hart. Came into WCW as a big deal but then fell victim to the politics. He was still a 2 time world champion in WCW. Yeah, he wasn't THE guy in WCW, but still a upper card-main eventer fixture. Bret's time in WCW was certainly not the kiss of death that some make it out to be (the Goldberg incident aside), but you just knew there were times where he could've been definitely booked better.
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Post by IgnahtaSempria on May 2, 2024 23:32:57 GMT -5
I didn't see any of his run in ROH but from the impression I got most of you on here Punishment Martinez is light years away from Damian Priest now. Yeah, at the time, Punishment Martinez was looked at by the fans as proof that WWE would sign anyone who was even vaguely a "name" on the indies. His signing was one of those that made people go "Really? Of all the ROH guys you could have signed, you picked HIM?" But, it all worked out really well for him in the end. On the other end of that spectrum, Mark Jindrak was a dude who was positioned for big things in WWE, only to lose out on those big plans and then basically get lost in the shuffle. Post-WWE, he then landed in CMLL, became Marco Corleone, and ended up becoming CMLL Heavyweight Champion.
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Post by Psicofreak667 on May 3, 2024 0:25:07 GMT -5
Surprised not to see Chris Jericho mentioned yet. He left WCW a midcarder and walked straight into the main event scene in WWF.
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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on May 3, 2024 3:06:16 GMT -5
So many examples are guys who were big in one promotion and then mid card or lower once they got to WWE. Are there any examples of the opposite? Big in WWE, but lesser elsewhere? I’d assume once you make it in WWE you instantly have credibility everywhere else. Trying to come up with one and none are coming to mind Warrior, Chyna, Sunny and Sable were all completely exposed when they worked anywhere but the WWF/E. Other companies tried to use them in top spots, but it was never the same for any of them anywhere else.
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on May 3, 2024 5:32:25 GMT -5
So many examples are guys who were big in one promotion and then mid card or lower once they got to WWE. Are there any examples of the opposite? Big in WWE, but lesser elsewhere? I’d assume once you make it in WWE you instantly have credibility everywhere else. Trying to come up with one and none are coming to mind Heres what I came up with. Mabel: WWE pushed him to the Main Event. he appeared in ECW and jobbed to Spike Dudley in mins. Went to TNA did nothing of note. Eathquake: Kind of. Came into WWE as a monster heel with a program with Hogan. Was pushed a lot. Than did the Tag team which had a tag run. WCW Started of ok as Avalanche with matches against Sting and Savage but than the Shark. Bret Hart: Top guy in WWE. WCW he spend most of his time below the Main event. US title run and zero direction. 99 they gave him the World title and well Goldberg happened. A lot of guys I notice where a big star in WWE at one time but before they even left WWE they had a lower card role. Examples like Iron Sheik jobbed to Sting in WCW on a PPV, but coming off Col Mustafa. That kind of situation.
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Post by nickcave on May 3, 2024 9:40:48 GMT -5
I guess Jeff Jarrett going from being a mid-card guy in WWF to being a multi time world champion in the dying days of WCW counts.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on May 3, 2024 10:18:17 GMT -5
I didn't see any of his run in ROH but from the impression I got most of you on here Punishment Martinez is light years away from Damian Priest now. Yeah, at the time, Punishment Martinez was looked at by the fans as proof that WWE would sign anyone who was even vaguely a "name" on the indies. His signing was one of those that made people go "Really? Of all the ROH guys you could have signed, you picked HIM?" But, it all worked out really well for him in the end. On the other end of that spectrum, Mark Jindrak was a dude who was positioned for big things in WWE, only to lose out on those big plans and then basically get lost in the shuffle. Post-WWE, he then landed in CMLL, became Marco Corleone, and ended up becoming CMLL Heavyweight Champion. I will admit I didn't see much of him in ROH because I wasn't watching at the time (It coincided with them giving a big push to Jay Briscoe, and he hadn't really grown as a person yet) but what I did see was just some big guy with an idiotic name. He shed that baggage FAST in NXT.
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on May 3, 2024 19:40:02 GMT -5
Surprised not to see Chris Jericho mentioned yet. He left WCW a midcarder and walked straight into the main event scene in WWF. Granted, Jericho’s start in WWF wasn’t exactly promising, even if he got to cut a promo on the Rock on his debut. It took a bit for him to win over everyone, but to Jericho’s credit, he did that fairly quick.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 4, 2024 2:47:08 GMT -5
Ricochet in New Japan, PWG, and Lucha Underground compared to WWE
In WWE he's just looked like a complete chump most of the time, doesn't help he seems like an irl dumbass to boot lol
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 4, 2024 2:48:28 GMT -5
Albert was seen as a shitwrecker in New Japan and then went to WWE and became a meme
But did becoming a meme ruin the Lord Tensai Gimmick?
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Post by Jaws the Shark on May 4, 2024 7:32:13 GMT -5
Albert was seen as a shitwrecker in New Japan and then went to WWE and became a meme But did becoming a meme ruin the Lord Tensai Gimmick? The Lord Tensai gimmick ruined the Lord Tensai gimmick. For someone who likes giant wrestlers, Vince McMahon really is shit at booking them.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on May 4, 2024 14:15:38 GMT -5
Albert was seen as a shitwrecker in New Japan and then went to WWE and became a meme But did becoming a meme ruin the Lord Tensai Gimmick? The Lord Tensai gimmick ruined the Lord Tensai gimmick. For someone who likes giant wrestlers, Vince McMahon really is shit at booking them. Part of the problem was they had him come and move really slow and pantomime ninja moves for some reason. I did really like the Mist Claw as a finisher though.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on May 4, 2024 14:50:22 GMT -5
The Lord Tensai gimmick ruined the Lord Tensai gimmick. For someone who likes giant wrestlers, Vince McMahon really is shit at booking them. Part of the problem was they had him come and move really slow and pantomime ninja moves for some reason. I did really like the Mist Claw as a finisher though. It was so weird. Like, even when he was still Albert or A-Train he was actually a pretty mobile big man and the stuff he did looked pretty high intensity, I don't know why you'd get rid of that. I'm bewildered that they tried to portray a man who very clearly wasn't as actually Japanese as well, and not just that, but a horrible Japanese stereotype that belonged in the seventies. Honestly, the whole thing was dire. There's that line in This Is Spinal Tap, "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever", and Lord Tensai was that in action: rather than keep it simple - acknowledge his WWE past and big up the competition in Japan - they tried to be too clever, and ended up doing something really, really mindbendingly stupid.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on May 4, 2024 14:57:33 GMT -5
Part of the problem was they had him come and move really slow and pantomime ninja moves for some reason. I did really like the Mist Claw as a finisher though. It was so weird. Like, even when he was still Albert or A-Train he was actually a pretty mobile big man and the stuff he did looked pretty high intensity, I don't know why you'd get rid of that. I'm bewildered that they tried to portray a man who very clearly wasn't as actually Japanese as well, and not just that, but a horrible Japanese stereotype that belonged in the seventies. Honestly, the whole thing was dire. There's that line in This Is Spinal Tap, "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever", and Lord Tensai was that in action: rather than keep it simple - acknowledge his WWE past and big up the competition in Japan - they tried to be too clever, and ended up doing something really, really mindbendingly stupid. I mean they never tried to say he was Japanese or hide that he was Albert. The statement from the beginning was he was left WWE and went to Japan and became a monster there so he could come back to WWE and dominate. That was what the gimmick was, they said that from the moment he debuted. The problem was he didn't come back and wrestle like Albert or Giant Bernard... he came out and did the weird ninja poses and slow martial arts moves.
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Post by Jaws the Shark on May 4, 2024 15:18:07 GMT -5
It was so weird. Like, even when he was still Albert or A-Train he was actually a pretty mobile big man and the stuff he did looked pretty high intensity, I don't know why you'd get rid of that. I'm bewildered that they tried to portray a man who very clearly wasn't as actually Japanese as well, and not just that, but a horrible Japanese stereotype that belonged in the seventies. Honestly, the whole thing was dire. There's that line in This Is Spinal Tap, "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever", and Lord Tensai was that in action: rather than keep it simple - acknowledge his WWE past and big up the competition in Japan - they tried to be too clever, and ended up doing something really, really mindbendingly stupid. I mean they never tried to say he was Japanese or hide that he was Albert. The statement from the beginning was he was left WWE and went to Japan and became a monster there so he could come back to WWE and dominate. That was what the gimmick was, they said that from the moment he debuted. The problem was he didn't come back and wrestle like Albert or Giant Bernard... he came out and did the weird ninja poses and slow martial arts moves. I probably forgot or blocked a lot of this out, to be honest, I just remember him taking that helmet off and wanting to cry because it was so f***ing daft. But yeah, that's just as bad that the gimmick was that but part of that was that he now dressed up like Fu Manchu.
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Post by fg on May 4, 2024 16:08:25 GMT -5
I mean they never tried to say he was Japanese or hide that he was Albert. The statement from the beginning was he was left WWE and went to Japan and became a monster there so he could come back to WWE and dominate. That was what the gimmick was, they said that from the moment he debuted. The problem was he didn't come back and wrestle like Albert or Giant Bernard... he came out and did the weird ninja poses and slow martial arts moves. I probably forgot or blocked a lot of this out, to be honest, I just remember him taking that helmet off and wanting to cry because it was so f***ing daft. But yeah, that's just as bad that the gimmick was that but part of that was that he now dressed up like Fu Manchu. On the first night of his comeback, Michael Cole said he was a former WWE star. Yet the magazine contradicted this when they showed a picture of him being STFUed on Cena and they said that this was the first time being off his feet.
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Post by XaviersSS2015hair on May 4, 2024 16:33:43 GMT -5
Ricochet in New Japan, PWG, and Lucha Underground compared to WWE In WWE he's just looked like a complete chump most of the time, doesn't help he seems like an irl dumbass to boot lol I agree with you, but honestly Ricochet has accomplished far more in WWE than I expected him to. I didn't even think he'd work there as long as he has. I thought Ricochet would have a similar run to the one Cameron Grimes had. Grimes/Trevor Lee also fits in this category. Somewhat big deal on the Indies and in TNA, total jobber on the WWE main roster.
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魔界5号
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Post by 魔界5号 on May 4, 2024 17:02:04 GMT -5
Almost every guy who was big in Japan but never cracked it in the WWF, Steve Williams probably being the prime example. Promptly got his ass kicked for real which halted any sense of a push in the WWF, lauded former Triple Crown Champion and regular top billing in All Japan.
A few ex WWE guys who went on to success in TNA definitely apply here too. EC3 probably one of the more notable ones as a nobody jobber in the WWE first time around and a later World Champion in TNA.
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Post by jean0987654321 on May 5, 2024 1:39:40 GMT -5
Tanga Loa in WWE (the first time) and TNA was the drizzling shits but his NJPW run was good
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