JMA
Hank Scorpio
Down With Capitalism!
Posts: 6,880
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Post by JMA on Jan 2, 2007 16:46:14 GMT -5
Edge is probably the best heel around right now. I actually hate it when he succeeds and NOT just because I'm a Matt Hardy fan (though that is part of the reason). There's something about him that makes you want to see him in pain. A good example is his match (with Foley and Lita) against Dreamer, Funk, and Beulah. When he speared and pinned Beulah I wanted to see him get annihilated. How DARE this WWE star win at an ECW PPV. It was a great moment.
And the interesting thing is that I can accept both of these views as true. I can accept him as a great heel and also my annoyance at seeing him win.
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Boomaga
Team Rocket
Evolve or Die.
Posts: 800
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Post by Boomaga on Jan 2, 2007 16:54:39 GMT -5
If I don't want to watch you, period, you're a bad heel. I don't want to watch Johnny Nitro. Maybe when he learns moves, then I'll want to, but a spinaroonie legdrop... not so much. Learns moves? What, like he can't do any decent moves? His moveset is fine. Plenty big, too. Punching three times doesn't count as three different moves. Sorry, for Johnny's size and possible potential, I find his moveset EXTREMELY lacking. Standing shooting star press aside.
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Post by Nuke is Good on Jan 2, 2007 16:56:12 GMT -5
Heel I would change the channel upon appearance: Miz, I dunno why but something about him doesn't make me want him to get his ass kicked but I dont want him on my television
Heel I would want to get his ass kicked: Edge, because I am a Matt Hardy Fan and he comes off as an asshole on screen
Heel that just pisses people off: JBL did the best job on pissing people off, his promos and taking the title off Eddie helped him get some Heat.
King Booker is a bit different though, because I was always a fan nof him so I cant find him very heelish. Though I did like JBL's heel run.
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Post by Ultimate Reality on Jan 2, 2007 16:59:03 GMT -5
If the heel is a good wrestler, or is at least portrayed as a legitimate threat to his/her opponents, then I can enjoy the character. If being irritating is their entire gimmick, and you know that they have little to no business even stepping foot in a wrestling ring, then I tend to lose interest.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2007 16:59:45 GMT -5
Learns moves? What, like he can't do any decent moves? His moveset is fine. Plenty big, too. Punching three times doesn't count as three different moves. Sorry, for Johnny's size and possible potential, I find his moveset EXTREMELY lacking. Since when was a punch his only move? I can name quite these, off the top of my head: Punch Forearm Clothesline Toe Kick Enzuiguri Side Knee Backbreaker Side Russian Leg Sweep Dancing Leg Drop Dropkick Vertical Suplex Standing Shooting Star Press (landed successfully, on a few occasions) Superkick Choke Superplex European Uppercut Reverse Powerbomb Facebuster Surfboard Stretch(using knee) Corkscrew Moonsault Yeah, that's some moveset consisting of nothing but punches, alright... EDIT: And I remembered some more, too.
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Post by MGH on Jan 2, 2007 17:00:55 GMT -5
I like watching Nitro myself. No, he isn't the most crisp YET, but he isn't garbage by any means. That cage match is the one I'm most looking forward to at NYR.
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Post by leemir on Jan 2, 2007 17:04:57 GMT -5
I can't stand Chris Masters everything about him is boring & he just sucks, not because he's a good heel or anything.
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mo
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,988
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Post by mo on Jan 2, 2007 17:07:08 GMT -5
I for one am a Johnny Nitro fan
maybe not a big fan, I probably don't mark for him, but he really has stepped up
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Boomaga
Team Rocket
Evolve or Die.
Posts: 800
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Post by Boomaga on Jan 2, 2007 17:09:50 GMT -5
So is that the set of moves he's got in SVR 2007? Cuz Bret Hart's been doing this spin kick he's never done in real life in those games for years.
Anywho, my argument is that I like the character of Johnny Nitro, and I think he would make a great manager. He's got a great look, great attitude and honestly, I should love him... but he just doesn't back it up in the ring in my opinion. Especially with the level of competition he's at, IC title contenders like Jeff Hardy, Shelton Benjamin and even Carlito (who I'm appreciating more than I used to), all of which I believe could wrestle circles around Nitro.
Nitro's the perfect size to be a great flyer or a great technician, and I really don't see him as either, I see him as a brawler with a handful of side moves. And I've seen that before, all too many times, and that's why Nitro bores me in the ring. I want to like him, but I can't.
We can agree to disagree. I look at Nitro and I see a guy who could one day be world champion and I see a guy who never deserved to be IC Champion in the same guy. I think tightening up that in-ring arsenal is just what he needs to win me and many others over.
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The Line
Patti Mayonnaise
Real Name: Bumkiss. Stanley Bumkiss.
Peanut Butter & JAAAAAMMMM!
Posts: 36,698
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Post by The Line on Jan 2, 2007 17:13:36 GMT -5
Agreed. There's a difference in the ol' Horsemen, I dislike you and will pay to see your get your comeuppance... and the Miz/KFed/ whoever, I dislike you and will run to the fridge and get a soda and then see what's on History Channel for a lil bit. the truth. There are heels that you wish get beat. Those are good heels. Heels you sish would just leave and die, now those aren't so good.
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Post by kitsunestar on Jan 2, 2007 17:14:20 GMT -5
*waits for this to just devolve into "Anyone who can't cut it in RoH is trash"*
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Rocky Angle
Unicron
Robo-Vampire- best movie ever.
Posts: 2,522
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Post by Rocky Angle on Jan 2, 2007 17:14:47 GMT -5
So is that the set of moves he's got in SVR 2007? Cuz Bret Hart's been doing this spin kick he's never done in real life in those games for years. Dude, I can remember seeing Nitro do all of those moves, and most of them he has done recently and regularly too. His SVR 2007 moves are probably something completely different! Fair enough if you don't like him in the ring, but saying he only does punches is just not true.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2007 17:15:13 GMT -5
So is that the set of moves he's got in SVR 2007? Cuz Bret Hart's been doing this spin kick he's never done in real life in those games for years. Anywho, my argument is that I like the character of Johnny Nitro, and I think he would make a great manager. He's got a great look, great attitude and honestly, I should love him... but he just doesn't back it up in the ring in my opinion. Especially with the level of competition he's at, IC title contenders like Jeff Hardy, Shelton Benjamin and even Carlito (who I'm appreciating more than I used to), all of which I believe could wrestle circles around Nitro. Nitro's the perfect size to be a great flyer or a great technician, and I really don't see him as either, I see him as a brawler with a handful of side moves. And I've seen that before, all too many times, and that's why Nitro bores me in the ring. I want to like him, but I can't. We can agree to disagree. I look at Nitro and I see a guy who could one day be world champion and I see a guy who never deserved to be IC Champion in the same guy. I think tightening up that in-ring arsenal is just what he needs to win me and many others over. Er, the moveset I listed was NOT just something I stole from Smackdown vs Raw 07. No, those were moves I've seen him use in the ring. But about the titles, I think he could've afforded to wait a little longer before becoming IC champ, so he could get his moveset to what it is now.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2007 17:15:29 GMT -5
Nitro's the perfect size to be a great flyer or a great technician, and I really don't see him as either, I see him as a brawler with a handful of side moves. And I've seen that before, all too many times, and that's why Nitro bores me in the ring. I want to like him, but I can't. I don't know I have to disagree as well. He kind of does it all as far as I'm concerned, between him, Shelton Benjamin and Carlito, it's Johnny Nitro who went out and had roughly a 20 minute match on Raw against Jeff Hardy, having spent the majority of that match working Hardy's legs, at a time where I feel it's been a long time since anyone's had a match of that style, it's not often anymore in WWE where there's any pinpointing of a specific body part. I think he's a lot better than anyone gives him credit for.
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Post by MGH on Jan 2, 2007 17:17:07 GMT -5
*waits for this to just devolve into "Anyone who can't cut it in RoH is trash"* Well that's random.
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Post by odanobunaga on Jan 2, 2007 17:17:22 GMT -5
A heel is suposse to make me dislike him, to see him lose. Being anoying is just that. I want the match to end quickly so I could see other people go at it. It´s boring.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 2, 2007 17:40:59 GMT -5
I think people use X-Pac heat for people who may not deserve it. Also, I think some people are praised for being a heel when they're not really a good one at all.
A good example, and I know I'll get flack for this, is Bryan Danielson. He can't be heel to save his life because people like him so much. He can do some heelish things, but he doesn't follow up on it. And when the crowd chants "Best in the World", you suck as a heel. You can talk about a heel outside the show as good but want them to lose or bad things to happen to that person while you watch the show, but if you get a positive reaction, it's usually not a good thing, as a heel wants to get people not to like him, and therefore, get people to like his opponent.
But then again, I think being a heel to one crowd and being heel to another is different. If Danielson came in and was heelish in WWE for example, he'd get some good heat. But he'd also have to keep it up.
Of course there are those who are so good as a heel, that people end up respecting them, and that turns them babyface. But it's never a good idea to go against the grain with things like these. Like, Bryan Danielson to get people to hate him, should have been constantly showing his ass to get him some good heat. Like, Jimmy Rave is a good heel because he's a whiney, weasely type heel, and nobody likes that.
There was The Rock back as Hollywood Rock, but Raven put him best. He was funny, but he was really mean funny. Like, yeah, at home you may've been entertained, but when he's talking about Leavin Sacramento and bashing the Maple Leafs, he'll get some good heat. Plus it's also good to have a babyface who's just as over to help yourself out.
Also, like, with King Booker, one of the things about him is people think he's funny, and that's bad. As a heel, unless you're really really mean like Rock was, being funny hurts your heelness, because it makes people want to cheer you, because who doesn't like somebody who makes you laugh.
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Post by leemir on Jan 2, 2007 17:44:47 GMT -5
A good heel wont make you change the channel though, they'd draw you in more if anything.
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Post by Michael Coello on Jan 2, 2007 17:57:13 GMT -5
Heels are suppose to be annoying.However, there are limits. In the end, the heel is suppose to get his up-and-comence. Most of the guys on the roster don't know how to get people to hate you without ending up getting real annoying. They're suppost to be pests, weasels that are not known to be dominate but rely on their wits.That is the key, as we want them to have Hogan deliever a leg drop on their throats or Austin hit them with a Stuner, or Cena with an FU. We got these people that we're like "I don't care what happens to them, I rather watch the A-Team" instead. Why? Cause they're not cool, yet act like the cool bad guys. In that, they turn to be annoying and no one wants to see them get thier asses kicked, but rather not bother watching.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 2, 2007 18:10:19 GMT -5
Another thing that is important, and the previous post made me think of it. It's presence.
I think that's one thing Miz lacks right now. He has the wrestling ability. He really does. I saw a bit of him in OVW, and he can wrestle. He has the heelish attitude, but I think he also lacks presense and that ability to get people to watch you.
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