"IcePic" Rick Cobos
Don Corleone
www.ericbischoff.com - some great comedy material!!!
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Post by "IcePic" Rick Cobos on Jan 13, 2007 19:45:54 GMT -5
Would anybody be interested in reading my attempt to break down the incorrect statements of the original post?
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"IcePic" Rick Cobos
Don Corleone
www.ericbischoff.com - some great comedy material!!!
Posts: 2,002
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Post by "IcePic" Rick Cobos on Jan 13, 2007 19:46:34 GMT -5
I'm sure I didn't, and yes, it's an excellent game plan. speaking of game plan, you watching the hawks game tomorrow? hell no They, along with several other mediocre teams, should be golfing this month, not playing football.
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KLRA
El Dandy
Halt. I am Reptar.
Posts: 7,591
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Post by KLRA on Jan 13, 2007 19:47:32 GMT -5
speaking of game plan, you watching the hawks game tomorrow? hell no They, along with several other mediocre teams, should be golfing this month, not playing football. Q.F.T. At least the friggin' Packers and Bills (my two teams) didn't side step their way in.
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The Line
Patti Mayonnaise
Real Name: Bumkiss. Stanley Bumkiss.
Peanut Butter & JAAAAAMMMM!
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Post by The Line on Jan 13, 2007 19:49:57 GMT -5
eh, your talking to a hawks fan, so while I don't disagree with both your statements, you have the rights to say it.
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"IcePic" Rick Cobos
Don Corleone
www.ericbischoff.com - some great comedy material!!!
Posts: 2,002
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Post by "IcePic" Rick Cobos on Jan 13, 2007 20:05:17 GMT -5
I was just thinking about it, and I've decided that the WWE is the only wrestling federation that counts if you refuse to get off your high horse and give companies a shot based on more than just "they need to have an established presence on American television and in mainstream America." Don't get me wrong- you can see an interesting match or promo from on just about every show in ROH, sometimes in TNA, or whatever your favorite collection of 3 initials is. But the WWE is the big show, and it's the only place that counts for fans who think that wrestling companies must be well-known throughout mainstream America in order to qualify as actually mattering. You know, from time to time I'll see someone say that their favorite recording artist is the (insert name of popular underground rock band or rapper here). And that's exactly how I feel when I hear someone say that ROH is the best. Sure, underground recording artists may be more "pure" without all the commercialism, politics, and money-wasting involved. The artists tend to make music based more on their own legitimate emotions and opinions rather than to please clueless corporate suits and mindless idiots. But you know what? It's the underground and none of the MTV teenagers care. BET and MTV are the only games in town. You can like the new mainstream version of Twista all you want- but using logic, just because he sells more records doesn't mean the quality of his music is any better now than it was ten years ago. Likewise, ROH may have matches that Dave Metzler gives one hundred gold stars. But who cares? If it didn't happen in the WWE, it doesn't really matter to lazy American fans who can't be bothered to find out that foreign wrestling companies sometimes have bigger draws than WWE.. Does anyone really think that there is a wrestler alive who'd rather be in ROH than WWE? Of course. For all the talk of integrity and not wanting to sell out, the only reason why someone's in ROH instead of WWE is that Vince either doesn't want them or the wrestler is being logically cautious and doesn't want to establish himself to the precious "mainstream" audience as a jobber. Not every wrestler on Earth would rather be making $200K/ year dressed in a chicken suit on Heat than making 40K per year as ROH champ. Don't get me wrong- from time to time I'll take in an episode of Raw and I've seen some of the emotional epic encounters ROH has to offer. But let's not kid ourselves- putting on a 5 Star match in ROH is like having a five star match on the BBC networkd- at least several thousand people in America know about it and you've established yourself as a star in a foreign country. People can say ROH and other indies are meaningless all they want- but it's patiently establishing itself as a major force in foreign countries, while also being a land of opportunity for many American wrestlers who wouldn't get a chance in WWE or TNA due to skin color pixelization, lack of height, not looking like Brad Pitt or the Elephant Man, or refusing to be yes men. WWE, for all the money it makes, is generally clueless in knowing how to book its wrestlers' strengths and hiding the wrestlers' weaknesses Thank you for explaining yourself logically and with good concrete reasoning.
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KLRA
El Dandy
Halt. I am Reptar.
Posts: 7,591
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Post by KLRA on Jan 13, 2007 20:06:59 GMT -5
I was just thinking about it, and I've decided that the WWE is the only wrestling federation that counts if you refuse to get off your high horse and give companies a shot based on more than just "they need to have an established presence on American television and in mainstream America." Don't get me wrong- you can see an interesting match or promo from on just about every show in ROH, sometimes in TNA, or whatever your favorite collection of 3 initials is. But the WWE is the big show, and it's the only place that counts for fans who think that wrestling companies must be well-known throughout mainstream America in order to qualify as actually mattering. You know, from time to time I'll see someone say that their favorite recording artist is the (insert name of popular underground rock band or rapper here). And that's exactly how I feel when I hear someone say that ROH is the best. Sure, underground recording artists may be more "pure" without all the commercialism, politics, and money-wasting involved. The artists tend to make music based more on their own legitimate emotions and opinions rather than to please clueless corporate suits and mindless idiots. But you know what? It's the underground and none of the MTV teenagers care. BET and MTV are the only games in town. You can like the new mainstream version of Twista all you want- but using logic, just because he sells more records doesn't mean the quality of his music is any better now than it was ten years ago. Likewise, ROH may have matches that Dave Metzler gives one hundred gold stars. But who cares? If it didn't happen in the WWE, it doesn't really matter to lazy American fans who can't be bothered to find out that foreign wrestling companies sometimes have bigger draws than WWE.. Does anyone really think that there is a wrestler alive who'd rather be in ROH than WWE? Of course. For all the talk of integrity and not wanting to sell out, the only reason why someone's in ROH instead of WWE is that Vince either doesn't want them or the wrestler is being logically cautious and doesn't want to establish himself to the precious "mainstream" audience as a jobber. Not every wrestler on Earth would rather be making $200K/ year dressed in a chicken suit on Heat than making 40K per year as ROH champ. Don't get me wrong- from time to time I'll take in an episode of Raw and I've seen some of the emotional epic encounters ROH has to offer. But let's not kid ourselves- putting on a 5 Star match in ROH is like having a five star match on the BBC networkd- at least several thousand people in America know about it and you've established yourself as a star in a foreign country. People can say ROH and other indies are meaningless all they want- but it's patiently establishing itself as a major force in foreign countries, while also being a land of opportunity for many American wrestlers who wouldn't get a chance in WWE or TNA due to skin color pixelization, lack of height, not looking like Brad Pitt or the Elephant Man, or refusing to be yes men. WWE, for all the money it makes, is generally clueless in knowing how to book its wrestlers' strengths and hiding the wrestlers' weaknesses Thank you for explaining yourself logically and with good concrete reasoning. Just want to point out that the last time I saw a tool video on MTV I was in middle school, and they still sell more records than most of the artists on MTV and BET.
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"IcePic" Rick Cobos
Don Corleone
www.ericbischoff.com - some great comedy material!!!
Posts: 2,002
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Post by "IcePic" Rick Cobos on Jan 13, 2007 20:07:43 GMT -5
Tool doesn't matter; it needs to be on TV more often.
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"IcePic" Rick Cobos
Don Corleone
www.ericbischoff.com - some great comedy material!!!
Posts: 2,002
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Post by "IcePic" Rick Cobos on Jan 13, 2007 20:14:30 GMT -5
eh, your talking to a hawks fan, so while I don't disagree with both your statements, you have the rights to say it. I am also a Seahawks fan, but my love is not blind.
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KLRA
El Dandy
Halt. I am Reptar.
Posts: 7,591
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Post by KLRA on Jan 13, 2007 20:14:38 GMT -5
Tool doesn't matter; it needs to be on TV more often. I wish that they would be. God I miss music on MTV...or when the music on MTV didn't make me want to gouge my ear drums out with a spork.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 13, 2007 20:16:59 GMT -5
MTV should just revert to it's original format from the 80's, and pretend nothing ever happened afterwards.
At least that way I'd get to see the "Money For Nothing" music video again. That thing rocks.
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"IcePic" Rick Cobos
Don Corleone
www.ericbischoff.com - some great comedy material!!!
Posts: 2,002
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Post by "IcePic" Rick Cobos on Jan 13, 2007 20:17:49 GMT -5
Tool doesn't matter; it needs to be on TV more often. I wish that they would be. God I miss music on MTV...or when the music on MTV didn't make me want to gouge my ear drums out with a spork. Wow, lack of music on Music Television. What does that remind me of in another corporate form of entertainment?
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The Line
Patti Mayonnaise
Real Name: Bumkiss. Stanley Bumkiss.
Peanut Butter & JAAAAAMMMM!
Posts: 36,698
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Post by The Line on Jan 13, 2007 20:22:02 GMT -5
man, I remember being able to flip to VH1 or MTV before school and be able to catch a whole bunch of music videos. damn
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Post by Galluchadore on Jan 13, 2007 20:25:44 GMT -5
I wish that they would be. God I miss music on MTV...or when the music on MTV didn't make me want to gouge my ear drums out with a spork. Wow, lack of music on Music Television. What does that remind me of in another corporate form of entertainment? hmm what could you be talking about? Its pretty funny both WWE and MTV have the words "wrestling" and "music" in their names and those are the things that emphasized the least. Also the "hardcore" music fans and "hardcore "(not the style) wrestling fans always complain the content and direction of both companies and those companies seem to prefer a different audience .
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Jiren
Patti Mayonnaise
Hearts Bayformers
Posts: 35,163
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Post by Jiren on Jan 13, 2007 20:50:35 GMT -5
New MTV is the pits
- My super sweet 16 - They think watching spoilt brats pissing and moaning for 30 mins is fun - Newlyweds - Even though they are now divorced - I want a famous face - Just too creepy for words
At least they show new south park, that's about the only good thing
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Post by Hulk With A Mustache on Jan 14, 2007 0:23:11 GMT -5
MTV should just revert to it's original format from the 80's, and pretend nothing ever happened afterwards. At least that way I'd get to see the "Money For Nothing" music video again. That thing rocks. I would like that, too. But, sadly, they won't. MTV has always cattered to young teens and what they find cool. So, the crap that's on MTV right now is what young teens today find cool. Now, if MTV released an MTV Classic channel that featured classic music videos and their classic shows, then that would be awesome. I also love how this thread turned into a discussion of MTV.
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"IcePic" Rick Cobos
Don Corleone
www.ericbischoff.com - some great comedy material!!!
Posts: 2,002
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Post by "IcePic" Rick Cobos on Jan 14, 2007 0:44:34 GMT -5
What a load of crap, so NJPW, NOAH, CMLL, AAA & all the rest don't count? Let's not go all "out of country" here. It's apples and oranges because styles are so different. Mic skills are key to getting over, so we can't compare promotions that don't even speak the same primary language (english) as the E. Sorry for not clarifying that earlier. Congratulations - now you're just attempting to make your elitist opinions seem like they're factual. As an elitist myself, at least try getting your facts straight and realize that not every wrestler hopes to go to WWE; some have goals of being in NOAH. Also, dare I say that Kenta Kobashi and Mistico are probably far bigger draws right now than Batista, John Cena, and Shawn Michaels. Last but not least, if I am wrong, someone correct me, but guess who the biggest superstar in the history of the business? Nope, it's not Hulk Hogan. His name is El Santo.
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Post by odanobunaga on Jan 14, 2007 1:21:17 GMT -5
I'm not saying that WWE is better because it pays more. I am saying that it is better AND it pays more. Production values with other companies suck. Commentary for other companies suck. In ring wrestling OVERALL is better with WWE. Writing (yes, writin) is better with the E. Even if you dispute that, the who package favors the E. Watch other products and see yourself. I feel that HUSTLE production is as big as the WWE, or even larger! WWE comentary sucks right now, because they never focus in the match, or in the storyline. They keep saying thins like "This Guy Is Very Tall OMFG" over and over again. Wrestling in the WWE? I give you Smackdown and ECW.
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Post by angryfan on Jan 14, 2007 1:52:55 GMT -5
I'm not saying that WWE is better because it pays more. I am saying that it is better AND it pays more. Production values with other companies suck. Commentary for other companies suck. In ring wrestling OVERALL is better with WWE. Writing (yes, writin) is better with the E. Even if you dispute that, the who package favors the E. I've heard this argument from friends who are E loyalists for years now. WWE has lots of pyro and flash, so that makes them a better product. It's the big noise theory in its simplest form. Make the most noise, and people will turn their heads. I get that it's all entertainment, so my argument has always been to treat it like every other form of entertianment. Would you rather go so Ashlee Simpson (or however you spell it) in concert, since the show is mostly flashy lights and explosions, or would you rather see a band go out and perform songs that they wrote, and doing so well? Taking another route, look at it like movies. Yeah, the big action picture might get the big total for a weekend, but does that detract from the quality of a movie which concentrates more on a solid script and acting? WWE doesn't "suck" per se, because they are a successful company. However, saying they're the best because they're the "last major company standing" has no merit. If, tommorrow, Pepsi and RC went out of business, would that mean that Coke is the best soda in the world, simply because they've been around a long time, have been successful, and the other companies folded? No. As for the agrument of "would you rather make 200,000 or 40,000?" I don't see how that can be an argument. I make less than $40,000 a year, and live comfortably. I'm not rich, but I'm happy. Now, would I take $40,000 to do what I love, and know that I got to put more of myself into my work? Yes I would. Would I take four times that, knowing that everything I did, as soon as I did it, did not belong to me, and that any credit for what I did would be given to those above me? That doesn't sound nearly as appealing, does it? I work in the real world, the company i work for is moderate sized, but i'm cofortable. The company I used to work for was much larger, and everything revolved around who you knew, not education, experience, or anything else. I took a paycut to do what I do now, but still live comfortably, pay my bills, and don't spend my days wondering who's going to stick a knife in my back next. Using the argument of money, does this make me an idiot, because I chose self-respect and a more enjoyable work experience over money? Hardly.
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The Line
Patti Mayonnaise
Real Name: Bumkiss. Stanley Bumkiss.
Peanut Butter & JAAAAAMMMM!
Posts: 36,698
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Post by The Line on Jan 14, 2007 2:39:24 GMT -5
I'm not saying that WWE is better because it pays more. I am saying that it is better AND it pays more. Production values with other companies suck. Commentary for other companies suck. In ring wrestling OVERALL is better with WWE. Writing (yes, writin) is better with the E. Even if you dispute that, the who package favors the E. I've heard this argument from friends who are E loyalists for years now. WWE has lots of pyro and flash, so that makes them a better product. It's the big noise theory in its simplest form. Make the most noise, and people will turn their heads. I get that it's all entertainment, so my argument has always been to treat it like every other form of entertianment. Would you rather go so Ashlee Simpson (or however you spell it) in concert, since the show is mostly flashy lights and explosions, or would you rather see a band go out and perform songs that they wrote, and doing so well? Taking another route, look at it like movies. Yeah, the big action picture might get the big total for a weekend, but does that detract from the quality of a movie which concentrates more on a solid script and acting? WWE doesn't "suck" per se, because they are a successful company. However, saying they're the best because they're the "last major company standing" has no merit. If, tommorrow, Pepsi and RC went out of business, would that mean that Coke is the best soda in the world, simply because they've been around a long time, have been successful, and the other companies folded? No. As for the agrument of "would you rather make 200,000 or 40,000?" I don't see how that can be an argument. I make less than $40,000 a year, and live comfortably. I'm not rich, but I'm happy. Now, would I take $40,000 to do what I love, and know that I got to put more of myself into my work? Yes I would. Would I take four times that, knowing that everything I did, as soon as I did it, did not belong to me, and that any credit for what I did would be given to those above me? That doesn't sound nearly as appealing, does it? I work in the real world, the company i work for is moderate sized, but i'm cofortable. The company I used to work for was much larger, and everything revolved around who you knew, not education, experience, or anything else. I took a paycut to do what I do now, but still live comfortably, pay my bills, and don't spend my days wondering who's going to stick a knife in my back next. Using the argument of money, does this make me an idiot, because I chose self-respect and a more enjoyable work experience over money? Hardly. and the award for best, most reasonable, and most intellegant post of the thread goes to you.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2007 5:31:50 GMT -5
There's no rule that says that you can't enjoy wrestling from more than one company.
If you like watching wrestling, feel free to watch WWE, and TNA, and ROH, and CZW, and whatever else you want.
You don't have to pick just one and defend it.
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