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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Jan 14, 2007 6:36:10 GMT -5
I was just thinking about it, and I've decided that the WWE is the only wrestling federation that counts. Don't get me wrong- you can see an interesting match or promo from time to time in ROH, TNA or whatever your favorite collection of 3 initials is. But the WWE is the big show, and it's the only place that counts. You know, from time to time I'll see someone say that their favorite baseball team is the (insert name of local minor league team here). And that's exactly how I feel when I hear someone say that ROH is the best. Sure, minor league baseball may be more "pure" without the multi-gazillionaire players. Maybe the players hustle harder. But you know what? It's the minors and no one cares. Major League Baseball is the only game in town. You can like the Columbus Clippers all you want- but the Yankees are better. Likewise, ROH may have matches that Dave Metzler gives one hundred gold stars. But who cares? If it didn't happen in the WWE, it doesn't really matter. Does anyone really think that there is a wrestler alive who'd rather be in ROH than WWE? No way. For all the talk of integrity and not wanting to sell out, the only reason why someone's in ROH instead of WWE is that Vince doesn't want them. Every wrestler on Earth would rather be making $200K/ year dressed in a chicken suit on Heat than making 40K per year as ROH champ. Don't get me wrong- from time to time I'll take in an episode of IMPACT! and I've seen some of the "epic encounters" ROH has to offer. But let's not kid ourselves- putting on a 5 Star match in ROH is like setting the minor league home run record- five people know about it and no one cares. People can say WWE is in a slump all they want- but it's still the best program an 9PM on Mondays and it's still the only wrestling that matters. WWE certainly isn't the only company that matters, but it IS by a million miles far more important and far more mainstream than every other indy fed (ROH and TNA included) put together. Also your analogy pisses me off. I get crap all the time for supporting a football club outside the Premiership, people say 'your team sucks' and 'your team are the worst team ever' and 'nobody cares about anyone outside the Premiership'. . Hell, the dickhead that is the Newcastle United chairman once said 'any club outside the Premiership doesn't deserve to exist'. Bullcrap. I'd love Newcastle to get relegated for that comment. Surely the Chariman would have to liquidate the club, as otherwise he's a hypocrite and a bullcrapter. Non-Premiership clubs may not get the TV attention, they may not have the multi-million pound budget from an oil billionaire, but they are every bit as worthy as the Premiership clubs, which is why I always root for the underdogs in every FA Cup and Carling Cup game. Sorry for the football rant but that analogy of yours is quite frankly full of crap IMO. More clubs are outside the Premiership than in the Premiership, so therefore more people support non-Premiership clubs than Premiership clubs. Of course, you'd rather be in the Premiership than not the Premiership, just as you'd rather be in WWE than ROH/TNA, but that still doesn't mean nobody cares about the lower leagues/companies. Also, for the record, I would rather play for the club I support on 500 a week in League 2 than for Chelsea on 50000 a week in The Premiership. But maybe that's just me.
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Post by leemir on Jan 14, 2007 8:36:21 GMT -5
I was just thinking about it, and I've decided that the WWE is the only wrestling federation that counts. Don't get me wrong- you can see an interesting match or promo from time to time in ROH, TNA or whatever your favorite collection of 3 initials is. But the WWE is the big show, and it's the only place that counts. You know, from time to time I'll see someone say that their favorite baseball team is the (insert name of local minor league team here). And that's exactly how I feel when I hear someone say that ROH is the best. Sure, minor league baseball may be more "pure" without the multi-gazillionaire players. Maybe the players hustle harder. But you know what? It's the minors and no one cares. Major League Baseball is the only game in town. You can like the Columbus Clippers all you want- but the Yankees are better. Likewise, ROH may have matches that Dave Metzler gives one hundred gold stars. But who cares? If it didn't happen in the WWE, it doesn't really matter. Does anyone really think that there is a wrestler alive who'd rather be in ROH than WWE? No way. For all the talk of integrity and not wanting to sell out, the only reason why someone's in ROH instead of WWE is that Vince doesn't want them. Every wrestler on Earth would rather be making $200K/ year dressed in a chicken suit on Heat than making 40K per year as ROH champ. Don't get me wrong- from time to time I'll take in an episode of IMPACT! and I've seen some of the "epic encounters" ROH has to offer. But let's not kid ourselves- putting on a 5 Star match in ROH is like setting the minor league home run record- five people know about it and no one cares. People can say WWE is in a slump all they want- but it's still the best program an 9PM on Mondays and it's still the only wrestling that matters. WWE certainly isn't the only company that matters, but it IS by a million miles far more important and far more mainstream than every other indy fed (ROH and TNA included) put together. Also your analogy pisses me off. I get crap all the time for supporting a football club outside the Premiership, people say 'your team sucks' and 'your team are the worst team ever' and 'nobody cares about anyone outside the Premiership'. . Hell, the dickhead that is the Newcastle United chairman once said 'any club outside the Premiership doesn't deserve to exist'. Bullcrap. I'd love Newcastle to get relegated for that comment. Surely the Chariman would have to liquidate the club, as otherwise he's a hypocrite and a bullcrapter. Non-Premiership clubs may not get the TV attention, they may not have the multi-million pound budget from an oil billionaire, but they are every bit as worthy as the Premiership clubs, which is why I always root for the underdogs in every FA Cup and Carling Cup game. Sorry for the football rant but that analogy of yours is quite frankly full of crap IMO. More clubs are outside the Premiership than in the Premiership, so therefore more people support non-Premiership clubs than Premiership clubs. Of course, you'd rather be in the Premiership than not the Premiership, just as you'd rather be in WWE than ROH/TNA, but that still doesn't mean nobody cares about the lower leagues/companies. Also, for the record, I would rather play for the club I support on 500 a week in League 2 than for Chelsea on 50000 a week in The Premiership. But maybe that's just me. I support Chelsea, we've been in the lower leagues before but let me have a shot at this. I'd rather stay in the indies/lower leagues where I enjoy wrestling/football & have my fun but I'd realize that if WWE/ Premiership club wanted me I'd probably have to go someday for financial or other reasons.
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Post by Big DSR Energy on Jan 14, 2007 8:52:15 GMT -5
In other news, Taylor Hicks is the only musician that matters, because he won American Idol, that show that a large number of people watch.
Being popular/famous and being good at what you do are not always connected. See: Federline, Kevin.
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Post by CT LFC Fan on Jan 14, 2007 10:04:11 GMT -5
WWE certainly isn't the only company that matters, but it IS by a million miles far more important and far more mainstream than every other indy fed (ROH and TNA included) put together. Also your analogy pisses me off. I get crap all the time for supporting a football club outside the Premiership, people say 'your team sucks' and 'your team are the worst team ever' and 'nobody cares about anyone outside the Premiership'. . Hell, the dickhead that is the Newcastle United chairman once said 'any club outside the Premiership doesn't deserve to exist'. Bullcrap. I'd love Newcastle to get relegated for that comment. Surely the Chariman would have to liquidate the club, as otherwise he's a hypocrite and a bullcrapter. Non-Premiership clubs may not get the TV attention, they may not have the multi-million pound budget from an oil billionaire, but they are every bit as worthy as the Premiership clubs, which is why I always root for the underdogs in every FA Cup and Carling Cup game. Sorry for the football rant but that analogy of yours is quite frankly full of crap IMO. More clubs are outside the Premiership than in the Premiership, so therefore more people support non-Premiership clubs than Premiership clubs. Of course, you'd rather be in the Premiership than not the Premiership, just as you'd rather be in WWE than ROH/TNA, but that still doesn't mean nobody cares about the lower leagues/companies. Also, for the record, I would rather play for the club I support on 500 a week in League 2 than for Chelsea on 50000 a week in The Premiership. But maybe that's just me. I support Chelsea, we've been in the lower leagues before but let me have a shot at this. I'd rather stay in the indies/lower leagues where I enjoy wrestling/football & have my fun but I'd realize that if WWE/ Premiership club wanted me I'd probably have to go someday for financial or other reasons. I hate Chelski. Just putting that out there.
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Post by CT LFC Fan on Jan 14, 2007 10:08:34 GMT -5
I was just thinking about it, and I've decided that the WWE is the only wrestling federation that counts. Don't get me wrong- you can see an interesting match or promo from time to time in ROH, TNA or whatever your favorite collection of 3 initials is. But the WWE is the big show, and it's the only place that counts. You know, from time to time I'll see someone say that their favorite baseball team is the (insert name of local minor league team here). And that's exactly how I feel when I hear someone say that ROH is the best. Sure, minor league baseball may be more "pure" without the multi-gazillionaire players. Maybe the players hustle harder. But you know what? It's the minors and no one cares. Major League Baseball is the only game in town. You can like the Columbus Clippers all you want- but the Yankees are better. Likewise, ROH may have matches that Dave Metzler gives one hundred gold stars. But who cares? If it didn't happen in the WWE, it doesn't really matter. Does anyone really think that there is a wrestler alive who'd rather be in ROH than WWE? No way. For all the talk of integrity and not wanting to sell out, the only reason why someone's in ROH instead of WWE is that Vince doesn't want them. Every wrestler on Earth would rather be making $200K/ year dressed in a chicken suit on Heat than making 40K per year as ROH champ. Don't get me wrong- from time to time I'll take in an episode of IMPACT! and I've seen some of the "epic encounters" ROH has to offer. But let's not kid ourselves- putting on a 5 Star match in ROH is like setting the minor league home run record- five people know about it and no one cares. People can say WWE is in a slump all they want- but it's still the best program an 9PM on Mondays and it's still the only wrestling that matters. WWE certainly isn't the only company that matters, but it IS by a million miles far more important and far more mainstream than every other indy fed (ROH and TNA included) put together. Also your analogy pisses me off. I get crap all the time for supporting a football club outside the Premiership, people say 'your team sucks' and 'your team are the worst team ever' and 'nobody cares about anyone outside the Premiership'. . Hell, the dickhead that is the Newcastle United chairman once said 'any club outside the Premiership doesn't deserve to exist'. Bullcrap. I'd love Newcastle to get relegated for that comment. Surely the Chariman would have to liquidate the club, as otherwise he's a hypocrite and a bullcrapter. Non-Premiership clubs may not get the TV attention, they may not have the multi-million pound budget from an oil billionaire, but they are every bit as worthy as the Premiership clubs, which is why I always root for the underdogs in every FA Cup and Carling Cup game. Sorry for the football rant but that analogy of yours is quite frankly full of crap IMO. More clubs are outside the Premiership than in the Premiership, so therefore more people support non-Premiership clubs than Premiership clubs. Of course, you'd rather be in the Premiership than not the Premiership, just as you'd rather be in WWE than ROH/TNA, but that still doesn't mean nobody cares about the lower leagues/companies. Also, for the record, I would rather play for the club I support on 500 a week in League 2 than for Chelsea on 50000 a week in The Premiership. But maybe that's just me. If a lower league team works hard enough, they'll make it to the Premeirship someday. Heck, if you win the right trophy, you can play in Europe and not even yet be a part of the EPL. ROH will never be a serious competitor to the WWE. Ever. Not going to happen. Look, I know it's stylish to say that the WWE is immature, and that every show but Smackdown! sucks. But I think RAW is a good show, and I know there are some people that agree with me. I know it's fashionable to pine away for the old ECW. But the old ECW was a bunch of stupid blood letting, even if it did turn out a good match every so often. So, you can say I'm blinded by loyalty to the WWE, and I am. But I just sound exactly like how the ROH and TNA fans do when they post- but everyone jumps aboard to give them plaudits because their opinions are so cool. The WWE is not cool right now and I for one still love it.
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Post by Big DSR Energy on Jan 14, 2007 10:18:01 GMT -5
That's not what they're aiming for, anyway.
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Post by leemir on Jan 14, 2007 11:16:30 GMT -5
I support Chelsea, we've been in the lower leagues before but let me have a shot at this. I'd rather stay in the indies/lower leagues where I enjoy wrestling/football & have my fun but I'd realize that if WWE/ Premiership club wanted me I'd probably have to go someday for financial or other reasons. I hate Chelski. Just putting that out there. Chelsea is the only team that matters.
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KLRA
El Dandy
Halt. I am Reptar.
Posts: 7,591
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Post by KLRA on Jan 14, 2007 11:55:57 GMT -5
I hate Chelski. Just putting that out there. Chelsea is the only team that matters. Sorry. You're wrong. Someone please fire this person. And I thought that ROH never wanted to compete with WWE because they present something totally different than WWE?
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Post by leemir on Jan 14, 2007 11:57:21 GMT -5
Chelsea is the only team that matters. Sorry. You're wrong. Someone please fire this person. And I thought that ROH never wanted to compete with WWE because they present something totally different than WWE? I know I'm wrong, just like this whole thread is wrong.
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KLRA
El Dandy
Halt. I am Reptar.
Posts: 7,591
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Post by KLRA on Jan 14, 2007 11:59:30 GMT -5
Sorry. You're wrong. Someone please fire this person. And I thought that ROH never wanted to compete with WWE because they present something totally different than WWE? I know I'm wrong, just like this whole thread is wrong. Okay, good, now just accept Manchester United as your lord and master and we'll be all set!
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Post by CT LFC Fan on Jan 14, 2007 12:38:25 GMT -5
I hate Chelski. Just putting that out there. Chelsea is the only team that matters. I'm waiting for someone to compare WWE with Real Madrid. Huge payroll and still can't top the table. What has happened to Real Madrid anyways? I hear they're going to back off the "galatico" approach...
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 14, 2007 13:01:59 GMT -5
Chelsea is the only team that matters. I'm waiting for someone to compare WWE with Real Madrid. Huge payroll and still can't top the table. What has happened to Real Madrid anyways? I hear they're going to back off the "galatico" approach... Was this before or after they signed Ruud Van Nisterooy and Fabio Cannavaro?
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Post by Nice Guy Cody on Jan 14, 2007 14:58:33 GMT -5
The IWC is like a rock music fan who assumes you no nothing about music if your favorite band isn't some garage band from Toledo no one has heard of. Likewise, "real" wrestling fans know that the WWE sucks, and ROH is the "real deal". Whining about the IWC is like crying because Santa Claus didn't give you what you wanted for Christmas.
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Jan 14, 2007 15:21:08 GMT -5
......... just accept Manchester United as your lord and master and we'll be all set! Never! And I know a lower league club can get to the Premiership, but I've been waiting for the Premiership for over 7 years. And back on topic, WWE may be poor overall quality wise, but it is still the biggest, most successful overall and most famous. Just like Chelsea have a better team than Man U, but Man U are more recognised and 'supported' internationally. I say 'supported' because 75% of Manchester United 'fans' have never been to a United game in their life.
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KLRA
El Dandy
Halt. I am Reptar.
Posts: 7,591
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Post by KLRA on Jan 14, 2007 15:25:41 GMT -5
......... just accept Manchester United as your lord and master and we'll be all set! Never! And I know a lower league club can get to the Premiership, but I've been waiting for the Premiership for over 7 years. And back on topic, WWE may be poor overall quality wise, but it is still the biggest, most successful overall and most famous. Just like Chelsea have a better team than Man U, but Man U are more recognised and 'supported' internationally. I say 'supported' because 75% of Manchester United 'fans' have never been to a United game in their life. Kind of like the Yankees as well. They're the most well known, have the biggest payroll, and the most fans...AND STILL DIDN'T EVEN MAKE IT TO THE WORLD SERIES!!! *laughs* But the first time I got to go to Old Trafford I bent down and kissed that sacred ground.
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Post by MGH on Jan 14, 2007 15:30:29 GMT -5
ROH will never be a serious competitor to the WWE. Ever. Not going to happen. Good thing they've never wanted to be then, isn't it?
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The Line
Patti Mayonnaise
Real Name: Bumkiss. Stanley Bumkiss.
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Posts: 36,698
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Post by The Line on Jan 14, 2007 15:36:12 GMT -5
ROH will never be a serious competitor to the WWE. Ever. Not going to happen. Good thing they've never wanted to be then, isn't it? yeah, thats like saying that the OC will never be a serious competitor to Dateline.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 14, 2007 16:23:43 GMT -5
I decided not to read the whole thing, mostly because my net goes out. But I knew just by the title that this thread would reach epic proportions.
TNA and ROH are the minor leagues compared to WWE, without question. But, there is an interesting question. Is the WWE the only wrestling that matters?
In the mainstream, yes. In the wrestling world itself, no. I think TNA is trying to creep up into the mainstream with its TV show, and ROH can never and will never creep into the mainstream, because the format of its shows would have to be completely changed.
In Ring of Honor, they have a small roster who are given lots of time to go out and wrestle, while in TNA and WWE, they can't. There are probably lots of wrestlers in WWE and TNA who would make the fans cheer like mad. Take Brent Albright. I don't think Gunner Scott impressed too many people, but when Brent Albright is given a good amount of time to shine, the fans love him.
I did read the example that some people were example without WWE, Samoa Joe, Bryan Danielson and AJ Styles. But there's a huge problem. They maybe the only examples. Plus, Samoa Joe said that he wants to go to the WWE when he feels its time, and Bryan Danielson has a guarenteed job in the WWE because of Shawn Michaels. So Bryan doesn't have to worry about money problems on the indys. Because if he wants to go to the WWE, all he needs to do is call up HBK, and he's signed. AJ Styles never wants to go to WWE, and he's been very successful on his own, and that's good for him. But how many people are like that.
Even with ROH, I think they do a good job of slowly building their talent with the realization that eventually, WWE is gonna pick them up, or TNA is gonna use them exclusively, so they slowly build up talent and keep bringing in talent to keep their promotion going.
TNA is the only main competitor with WWE. They're trying to start this war with WWE, which is like Guam trying to start a war with the United States. Right now, TNA is very small, and it might be wrestling that matters in the mainstream. But right now, WWE is the only wrestling that matters with the mainstream. In wrestling, definitely not.
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Slapnutz McGee
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Posts: 358
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Post by Slapnutz McGee on Jan 14, 2007 16:44:06 GMT -5
I completely agree with the original post. Perfect example, Babe Ruth hit his first ever professional home run right here in Fayetteville, NC when he played for the minor leagues. Does anyone know that? No. Does anyone care? No. They only care about the hundreds he hit and the legacy he left in the majors. Kurt Warner and Jake Delhomme were both good quarterbacks that won championships with their teams in NFL Europe, but no one knew about them or really cared about them until they hit our NFL. I give it to TNA, ROH, and other "minor" wrestling promotions out there that they can be much more entertaining. Having wrestled for a backyard fed myself, I can say that it is very, very fun. Though, no one knows about my "career" nor do they care about it. If a wrestler wants to become a huge star, make lots of money, and leave a lasting legacy in the wrestling world, then they HAVE to join the WWE at some point. It just won't happen anywhere else at this time. Also, if you, as a fan, really want to get completely lost in the entire spectacle that is professional wrestling, then you can't do any better than WWE live show. WWE does a great job of helping you get lost in the fantasy at their live shows. Whether WWE is better than other feds is all a matter of opinion, but on the whole, they really are the only fed, right now, that matters.
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Post by royboy8 on Jan 14, 2007 17:44:55 GMT -5
agreed although Smackdown may have surpassed Raw as TV'S best wrestling show.
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