Settling this - should end the whining

[Bushwanker]

clifford said:

Look, i agree with you, but the 'E has made some pretty stupid decisions that show that they HATE making money.
blowing off feuds in gimmick matches on free tv?
having a 4 way tag ladder match on PPV and NOT ADVERTISING IT, then advertising one and NOT HAVING IT.
Not having Hogan appear at WM just beacuse Vince is having a hissy fit cause of something he said on a radio show like 100 fans will hear?

How is Bobby Lashley making the WWE a profit?
How is having Ashley in a women match at Mania making WWE a profit? they advertise her appearence enough on tv.

Listen to a shareholders report. WWE makes more money half assing it in 2005-2007 then they did back in 1998-2000 during Attitude when everyone was busting their hump. So they're obviously doing something right. And those numbers prove one thing: the quality of the onscreen product doesn't matter to profits, it's all in marketing BABY.

[hassanchop]

bushwanker said:

drbackflipshoffman said:

There we go then, everyone return their internet to the store.

LOL - I love it!!

Seriously though folks. It's the answer to all your questions. Why isn't CM Punk a champion? Why is Mickie not on the Mania card? Why are there so many PPVs? Why is Cena still champion? If you simply remember that it's because whatever your gripe is probably makes WWE a profit, there's no reason to complain.

The only time they cared is when they were losing money and then after the aquisition of the competition and cult indie, it was back to where it was and still is. It's always been business unless they get desperate.

Obese, most-naked men = ratings.

TNA got one I think. And how much money did they make, and still are making?

[DrBackflipsHoffman]

I thought this was going to end all arguing? most replies have been people pointing out flaws or disagreeing.

[hassanchop]

drbackflipshoffman said:

I thought this was going to end all arguing? most replies have been people pointing out flaws or disagreeing.

I DON'T KNOOOW!

Some people were PISSED NOW!

[Sawylent White]

Although there are many reasons the brand extension will continue (many that do have to do with money), I assure you that the extension does not bring in twice as much profit. It may have increased profits, but surely has not doubled them.

[Bushwanker]

drbackflipshoffman said:

I thought this was going to end all arguing? most replies have been people pointing out flaws or disagreeing.

Good - we need a decent debate around here that gets opinions flowing.

[clifford]

bushwanker said:

clifford said:

Look, i agree with you, but the 'E has made some pretty stupid decisions that show that they HATE making money.
blowing off feuds in gimmick matches on free tv?
having a 4 way tag ladder match on PPV and NOT ADVERTISING IT, then advertising one and NOT HAVING IT.
Not having Hogan appear at WM just beacuse Vince is having a hissy fit cause of something he said on a radio show like 100 fans will hear?

How is Bobby Lashley making the WWE a profit?
How is having Ashley in a women match at Mania making WWE a profit? they advertise her appearence enough on tv.

Listen to a shareholders report. WWE makes more money half assing it in 2005-2007 then they did back in 1998-2000 during Attitude when everyone was busting their hump. So they're obviously doing something right. And those numbers prove one thing: the quality of the onscreen product doesn't matter to profits, it's all in marketing BABY.

OK, WWE half assing it and still making money? Where has this happened before?
O yeah, WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP WRESTLING
How come they're not on my screens anymore?
It's not going to happen overnight, or maybe even over the next 5 years, but the mistakes WWE are making RIGHT NOW, they will pay dearly for

[Johnny Danger (Godz)]

well, WCW is dead because of Time Warner, mainly.

[hassanchop]

godz said:

well, WCW is dead because of Time Warner, mainly.

Maybe it's because, I don't know(I DON'T KNOOOWWW!), say, Jamie Kellner?

[akkountent]

bushwanker said:

drbackflipshoffman said:

I thought this was going to end all arguing? most replies have been people pointing out flaws or disagreeing.

Good - we need a decent debate around here that gets opinions flowing.

Speculation on who will be the "mini-Klali"? Discussing Vito's new gimmick? Pondering the new smash-hit "The Condemned"? These aren't decent debates that gets opinions flowing?

[Doomrider]

All I'm gonna say is...I don't watch WWE for wrestling.

[Thread Pirate Roberts]

Wait we should have Opinions here?
I thought we just robotically were supposed to go along with what makes money and have no say on the subject.

[hassanchop]

akkountent said:

Speculation on who will be the "mini-Klali"? Discussing Vito's new gimmick? Pondering the new smash-hit "The Condemned"? These aren't decent debates that gets opinions flowing?

What about Daniel Rodimer? Is he still gonna have a big push or just another hoss?

[akkountent]

hassanchop said:

akkountent said:

Speculation on who will be the "mini-Klali"? Discussing Vito's new gimmick? Pondering the new smash-hit "The Condemned"? These aren't decent debates that gets opinions flowing?

What about Daniel Rodimer? Is he still gonna have a big push or just another hoss?

What an awesome debate idea; however, we must first think and make sure that whatever conclusion we draw, we keep in mind that the WWE did it to "make money" and nothing else.

["Hollywood" Cactus Matt]

bushwanker said:

cactusmatt said:

I know I did. I'm easily persuaded.

Major League Baseball's goal is to make money. As is the NFL's. And the NBA's. And probably about 90% of the people in the world.

But see, the thing is, you're not going to get my money unless I think you deserve it. And if you aren't entertaining me - and believe me, I put up with a lot of s*** in the name of entertainment - then you don't deserve it.

It's not going to kill McMahon & Co. to, say, let Undertaker keep his streak, or book RVD vs. Sabu vs. Shelton Benjamin in a three-way match instead of Ashley vs. Melina in a "Diva Who Shows Her Tits First Wins" match; Playboy magazine pretty much sells itself. I'd rather watch a real wrestling match than some crap that only the writers think is funny or entertaining.

I dunno; maybe I just like wrestling. And I know that, in the business world, there is no such thing as "too much profit," but damn, man ... a "thanks for your business" every once in a while would be nice. That's all I want.

But here's a simple solution for you my friend: watch another fed. Watch TNA or ROH. How many times do you need to be told that WWE is NOT a pure wrestling show. It's a freak show...a circus.

You tuning into WWE to watch Benjamin/RVD materpieces makes as much sense as going into a Wendys and complaining at the lack of gourmet meals. Would you also watch Jackass and expect to see Schindler's List style drama?!

WWE is for the lowest common denominator - it is cheap, disposable low-brow entertainment. Old ladies, dead babies, lesbians, fat male strippers and gold painted gays have as much a place on TV as CM Punk and Chris Benoit. If you don't wanna see it - simply order some NJPW DVDs and go nuts!

So, is the goal of TNA, ROH, and NJPW to not make money? That's what I was getting at. I know damn well that WWE focuses less and less on wrestling every week, but the point is, "wrestling" is still the second word in their name, they're still the dominant promotion in the world (yes, the world, not just the U.S.) and pissing off your core/original fans is not the way to make money, even if Vince did graduate from the Ass-Backwards School of Business.

Would you keep going back to Wendy's if they kept spitting in your food? Not unless you like spit, or you really couldn't stand McDonald's (TNA) and didn't have proper access to Gourmet Meal Shop #113. (ROH, NJPW, etc.) So, "my friend," I'll take my circus/freak show/nasty-ass fast food joint free on TV, but I'm not gonna spend money on its shitburgers.

Can I stop using metaphors now?

[Bushwanker]

cactusmatt said:

bushwanker said:

But here's a simple solution for you my friend: watch another fed. Watch TNA or ROH. How many times do you need to be told that WWE is NOT a pure wrestling show. It's a freak show...a circus.

You tuning into WWE to watch Benjamin/RVD materpieces makes as much sense as going into a Wendys and complaining at the lack of gourmet meals. Would you also watch Jackass and expect to see Schindler's List style drama?!

WWE is for the lowest common denominator - it is cheap, disposable low-brow entertainment. Old ladies, dead babies, lesbians, fat male strippers and gold painted gays have as much a place on TV as CM Punk and Chris Benoit. If you don't wanna see it - simply order some NJPW DVDs and go nuts!

So, is the goal of TNA, ROH, and NJPW to not make money? That's what I was getting at. I know damn well that WWE focuses less and less on wrestling every week, but the point is, "wrestling" is still the second word in their name, they're still the dominant promotion in the world (yes, the world, not just the U.S.) and pissing off your core/original fans is not the way to make money, even if Vince did graduate from the Ass-Backwards School of Business.

Would you keep going back to Wendy's if they kept spitting in your food? Not unless you like spit, or you really couldn't stand McDonald's (TNA) and didn't have proper access to Gourmet Meal Shop #113. (ROH, NJPW, etc.) So, "my friend," I'll take my circus/freak show/nasty-ass fast food joint free on TV, but I'm not gonna spend money on its crapburgers.

Can I stop using metaphors now?

No. But it sounds like you and 90% of the other smarks DO continue to go back to Wendys. Vince has been spitting in your burgers for years, if the general consensus of these forums is anything to go by. Constant complaining, criticising, etc. Yet you keep going back for more.

I can't stand American Idol. Do I keep tuning in week after week? No. Because it doesn't entertain me and it's not my thing. So why do you watch WWE if you obviously get so frustrated with it? Nothing better to do on a Monday night or something?

[Deleted]

hassanchop said:

akkountent said:

Speculation on who will be the "mini-Klali"? Discussing Vito's new gimmick? Pondering the new smash-hit "The Condemned"? These aren't decent debates that gets opinions flowing?

What about Daniel Rodimer? Is he still gonna have a big push or just another hoss?

Comparing Rodimer to a hoss is just planing insulting the hosses of the world. That guy is just pure shit.

It's not there to honor history, legacies, continuity or respectability

But they'd be smart to do that as that makes money and DVD sales and autobiographies have proven that.

[The Boss]

bushwanker said:

2 - End the brand extension

Two brands means twice as many rosters, twice as many house shows, twice as many touring groups. TWICE AS MUCH PROFIT. WWE can still do International tours with one brand, while the other does shows in the USA. Not possible with only one brand. WWE will therefore ignore the poor quality of Smackdown, the lack of depth and the poor rosters because two brands MAKES MONEY.

Then why doesn't Vince rename Smackdown "WCW"? With WCW's name, and library (and history) in his hands he could make twice as much money marketing two top brands rather than what is considered the WWF B-brand.

[Lenny: Smooth like Keith Stone]

bushwanker said:

I'm gonna cut to the chase. WWE is in business to MAKE MONEY. nothing else. It's not there to honor history, legacies, continuity or respectability. It's there to MAKE MONEY. Got it?

Hulk Hogan once defined a mark as "someone who thinks decisions in wrestling are made for a reason other than profit". I'd say he has it down perfectly. So with that in mind, let's shoot down all the things marks and smarks complain about, and why you'll never see them:

1 - Playboy pillow fights at WrestleMania while talented guys like RVD are kept off the card.

IT MAKES MONEY. WWE has an annual deal with Playboy to showcase a diva at Wrestlemania time. Therefore, it makes sense to have that particular diva in a prominent role on the show. If Ashley winning the title at Mania brings more focus to the Playboy mag, then it's adios Mickie James. Because Playboy MAKES MONEY

2 - End the brand extension

Two brands means twice as many rosters, twice as many house shows, twice as many touring groups. TWICE AS MUCH PROFIT. WWE can still do International tours with one brand, while the other does shows in the USA. Not possible with only one brand. WWE will therefore ignore the poor quality of Smackdown, the lack of depth and the poor rosters because two brands MAKES MONEY.

3 Get the divas off my TV/Quit releasing Diva DVDs, etc

Check the numbers - they make money

4 Make PPVs more special by bringing them back down to 5 a year. It'll make them more important like the good old days!

14 PPVs make 14 times more money than 1. or even 5. WWE will continue to milk as many PPVs as possible because they have a core contingent of fans who will buy every PPV even if the main event is Nathan Jones vs Kahli. So all they need to do is win over the 'excess population'. Simply put, more PPVs MAKES MONEY - regardless of quality of the show.

5 Let Undertaker keep his legacy - he deserves it!!

WWE could give a crap who deserves what. If Taker losing his legacy to Batista or Orton means the potential of a sizzling summer long feud while Taker get revenge, culminating in a white hot SummerSlam blow off, WWE will do it because it MAKES MONEY. To hell with Taker's legacy...it's about the house show crowds, the TV ratings and the buy rates.

6 - WWE should make a DVD set for Dynamite Kid!! He deserves it!!!

LMFAO. Like WWE releases DVD sets based on who deserves something. You don't market a product based as a tribute to someone's career. They have Hall of Fame and other bogus things for that. DVDs are marketed based on what will sell..based on what MAKES MONEY. That's why you have about 50,000 John Cena and rey Mysterio shirts to choose from, but none for Kenny Dykstra.


I could go on, but I'm bored. Hopefully you get the idea. If you think WWE makes decisions based on anything other than profit, you need to get your ass out of your parents basements, or your college dorm, and enter the real world where it's all about the MUNNY.

Peace out!

Much like you advise people to stop watching WWE if we don't like it since it's not going to change, I suggest you stop visiting this forum if you don't like the whining because that's not going anywhere either. Unless the idea was that we should all stop complaining about everything, but it's OK to complain about us. In which case I disagree.

["Hollywood" Cactus Matt]

bushwanker said:

cactusmatt said:

So, is the goal of TNA, ROH, and NJPW to not make money? That's what I was getting at. I know damn well that WWE focuses less and less on wrestling every week, but the point is, "wrestling" is still the second word in their name, they're still the dominant promotion in the world (yes, the world, not just the U.S.) and pissing off your core/original fans is not the way to make money, even if Vince did graduate from the Ass-Backwards School of Business.

Would you keep going back to Wendy's if they kept spitting in your food? Not unless you like spit, or you really couldn't stand McDonald's (TNA) and didn't have proper access to Gourmet Meal Shop #113. (ROH, NJPW, etc.) So, "my friend," I'll take my circus/freak show/nasty-ass fast food joint free on TV, but I'm not gonna spend money on its crapburgers.

Can I stop using metaphors now?

No. But it sounds like you and 90% of the other smarks DO continue to go back to Wendys. Vince has been spitting in your burgers for years, if the general consensus of these forums is anything to go by. Constant complaining, criticising, etc. Yet you keep going back for more.

I can't stand American Idol. Do I keep tuning in week after week? No. Because it doesn't entertain me and it's not my thing. So why do you watch WWE if you obviously get so frustrated with it? Nothing better to do on a Monday night or something?

Actually, thanks for lumping me in with everyone. That's a great way to get people to pay attention to you.

And if Wendy's had served me a steak, I'd keep going back, hoping that I could get that steak again. Wendy's food doesn't constatnly make me ill, so I'll eat it.

WWE used to be golden. And I feel as though it has the potential to be so again. So I keep my faith, tune in, and sometimes I like what I see, sometimes I don't.

It's like backing your favorite sports team. Everyone around here likes the Detroit Lions, even though they haven't had a winning season in Godz-knows-when. They're not going to the Super Bowl any time soon, and they are an embarrassment to the sport of football, IMHO. But week after week, year after year, people tune in, show up, and cheer their asses off. It's basically the same thing: these people want to see football, no matter how poorly it is presented.

I want to see professional wrestling, no matter how poorly it is presented. So I watch WWE. It's my most viable option, as I'm usually out when iMPACT! is on, ROH isn't shown in my area, and I have no desire to buy a bunch of DVD's.

If your only choices were Wendy's or starvation, which would you choose? Sure, you might get sick of your Big Bacon Classic every now and again, but it keeps you sustained.

Does that make me a "wrestling geek?" Oh well, so sad for me. Everyone is a geek in his or her own way, anyway.

And, for the record, I don't generally leave the house on Monday nights until 10:00-10:30 anyway, so please keep the snarky comments about my percieved lack of a social life to yourself.