Everybody hates Shawn

[Richard]

karisma888 said:

Am I alone in thinking... there's more to Bret/Shawn than we're allowed to hear? From reading and hearing accounts from both sides, it's always come off to me as if there's something missing from it. Like a real reason they don't like each other.

I dunno. I just always get that feeling.

Not at all. I have always thought there was a lot more to the story than they let on. There just seems to be a few key pieces missing.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Shawn also tells a story about "how it just made sense" to beat the Bulldog for the Euro title in England right before a PPV. He said would generate more heat for him going intoa match. I forget which one at the moment. A story I totally don't buy. The UK show wouldn't be seen by Americans, where the PPV was being run...so when HBK showed up for his American PPV match, he just had the Euro belt. Sure, they explained it.......but I don't think it helped generate an ounce of heat. HBK just suddenly had a new belt, which no one saw him win.

[T.J. "the Crippler" Stevens]

Considering the fact that he doesn't just win every week, but he usually wins against at least 2 Main Eventers, I hate him more now then ever. I never thought I'd hate him more than I did in '95/'96, but he's just gotten pathetic. I've never seen anyone go to bat for himself more than Shawn Michaels has in the last year. There's no team in Shawm Michaels. He's bringing the company down with him again, and I'm sure he doesn't give a crap.

[erik316wttn]

What are some of the people who've worked with him recently said? Has he changed or is he pretty much the same old Shawn?

[Cousin Judge]

He's got twice the ego of Ric Flair and he's not achieved 1,000,000th Ric Flair has

He's had backstage sway to rival Hogan and he's not drawn 1,000,000th of what Hogan has drawn

He made Vince choose him over Bret when he doesn't have a 1,000,000th the amount of respect for the business or dedication that Bret had.

I think it's just that he got so much out of the business and became the big cheese backstage when in terms of success he never really deserved. I think thats probably what rubs people up the wrong way.

[Richard]

erik316wttn said:

What are some of the people who've worked with him recently said? Has he changed or is he pretty much the same old Shawn?

You wont really know until HBK retires or some leaves WWE.

That said Kurt Angle hates his guts. However Kurt is loonier than the Loony Toons so who knows.

[erik316wttn]

Right now I think a lot of this crapping on him isn't needed.

He's in the main event right now because currently he's one of the most over faces on Raw. Listen to the reaction. Very damn few others get that. And when HHH comes back they'll probably tease a DX breakup or go heel.

And bullshit to people who said Shawn never drew.

[Richard]

erik316wttn said:

And bullcrap to people who said Shawn never drew.

Sorry, I am a Shawn mark but, his time on top is the worst money wise in WWE history.

[whothoughtofthis]

alot of people in the back hated him back in the day cause he knew how good he was.

[skskillz]

erik316wttn said:

And bullcrap to people who said Shawn never drew.

It may be bullshit to you, but it's true. He was the main guy during one of the WWF's worst stretches (1995-1996). He's never drawn a dime unless he was put with Austin (1998) or Hogan (2005). The only reason people look past his attitude and his non-drawing ability is because he is/was a very talented worker. That's it. In a fake sport, he's arguably the most "talented". Big deal.

Is he over? Sure. That doesn't mean he drew. The WWF/E has a way of making wrestlers bigger or smaller than they actually are, even moreso now that they own all the video footage. Randy Savage was 10 times the draw and name of Michaels, but who is the WWE going to hype as being the bigger star? Don't fall for the hype.

[T.J. "the Crippler" Stevens]

kingsofwrestling said:

The Kliq basically used McMahon and anyone they were not cool with got buried.

Fantastic point. But it shouldn't be in the past tense. It's going on now, perhaps more than ever.

[Ultimo Chocula]

erik316wttn said:

What are some of the people who've worked with him recently said? Has he changed or is he pretty much the same old Shawn?

When they ask him to build up Punk, you'll have your answer.

[T.J. "the Crippler" Stevens]

ultimochocula said:

erik316wttn said:

What are some of the people who've worked with him recently said? Has he changed or is he pretty much the same old Shawn?

When they ask him to build up Punk, you'll have your answer.

I think his work with Randy Orton, Edge, and more have already answered that question.

[The son of a plumber.]

ultimochocula said:

mark said:

Bret Hart is my favorite wrestler. I think both of them are probably huge ego driven guys that are both douches. They most likly didnt like each othe because they seem like very similar people deep down they just went about it different ways.

Bret probably was difficult at times but he's always struck me as a "business first" type of guy. He just wanted to protect the E from being taken as a joke and if it meant he had to be a douche.

Shawn has always been a self promoter.

Oh I agree with you.

[The son of a plumber.]

I hate to say that i'm truely hope that they have Cena win at Wrestlemania. I realize that as a worker he is far better, Those if your going to have Cena beat people all the time, then it would be a even bigger moment for him to win against HBK. That Cena has really impressed me with the way he seems to care about the bussiness and want to improve his match quality over this last year.

[Austin's Middle Finger]

cdr said:

Shawn also tells a story about "how it just made sense" to beat the Bulldog for the Euro title in England right before a PPV. He said would generate more heat for him going intoa match. I forget which one at the moment. A story I totally don't buy. The UK show wouldn't be seen by Americans, where the PPV was being run...so when HBK showed up for his American PPV match, he just had the Euro belt. Sure, they explained it.......but I don't think it helped generate an ounce of heat. HBK just suddenly had a new belt, which no one saw him win.

What made it worse was that Bulldog was told previously he was going to win in England, and apparently told family and friends he was going to do so.

HBK of course, wasn't having any of it.

[T.J. "the Crippler" Stevens]

curly said:

cdr said:

Shawn also tells a story about "how it just made sense" to beat the Bulldog for the Euro title in England right before a PPV. He said would generate more heat for him going intoa match. I forget which one at the moment. A story I totally don't buy. The UK show wouldn't be seen by Americans, where the PPV was being run...so when HBK showed up for his American PPV match, he just had the Euro belt. Sure, they explained it.......but I don't think it helped generate an ounce of heat. HBK just suddenly had a new belt, which no one saw him win.

What made it worse was that Bulldog was told previously he was going to win in England, and apparently told family and friends he was going to do so.

HBK of course, wasn't having any of it.

And then he didn't even have to lose the title. He just gave it to his buddy Triple H......who didn't have to put over the next guy either. Owen Hart beat Goldust (who was dressed as Triple H). Gosh, those Kliq guys are good.

[The Gambler Fan]

skskillz said:

erik316wttn said:

And bullcrap to people who said Shawn never drew.

It may be bullcrap to you, but it's true. He was the main guy during one of the WWF's worst stretches (1995-1996). He's never drawn a dime unless he was put with Austin (1998) or Hogan (2005). The only reason people look past his attitude and his non-drawing ability is because he is/was a very talented worker. That's it. In a fake sport, he's arguably the most "talented". Big deal.

Is he over? Sure. That doesn't mean he drew. The WWF/E has a way of making wrestlers bigger or smaller than they actually are, even moreso now that they own all the video footage. Randy Savage was 10 times the draw and name of Michaels, but who is the WWE going to hype as being the bigger star? Don't fall for the hype.

Okay, maybe you are right. However, it is bullcrap that he never drew a dime. In the back of Scott Keith’s book “Tonight in This Very Ring”; there is a list PPV buyrates. To end the “Shawn was not a draw and Bret was a draw feud”, I found the average buyrate they both drew while wrestling in the main event (I left out WM 14 to be fair for Bret). Shawn’s average PPV buyrate was 1.1 and Bret’s was also 1.1. Therefore, neither of them broke new PPV records, but both of them did sell PPV. Shawn sold more merchandise than Bret; therefore Shawn was a bigger draw. It is true Shawn did not have the drawing power like Hogan or Austin but he did put people’s buts in seats. It is not his fault that WWE was getting its ass kicked by WCW at the time. The reason why WWE was getting it ass handed to them is because of lame gimmicks and boring storylines.

[fuhgz]

This is what I don't buy into the whole Shawn didn't draw thing. The business had been in a steady decline leading up to Michaels' title reign. Vince knew that Yokozuna couldn't draw the numbers as Hulk Hogan, so I put the belt on Hart. Hart, being the professional he was and also an extremely talented guy, still couldn't put up Hogan-esque numbers. Vince goes back to big men and puts the title on Diesel for a year which is when the company really took a nose dive. So Vince goes with Hart again, and then decides Michaels should get a chance to try and carry the company. And again, the numbers aren't where McMahon wanted them. By this time, WWF and WCW were laughingstocks. The kids who grew up watching Hogan were no teenagers who for the most part didn't like the cartoonish antics of pro wrestling. It is too easy to say that Shawn didn't draw solely because he was Shawn Michaels. Shawn didn't draw because his predecessors didn't draw either. People just love to make Shawn into this hapless figure when it comes to making money, but the WCW wasn't doing any better at the time until the nWo started up. Wrestling is cyclical and the next boom period didn't occur until '97-'98. And I can't blame the guy for not wanting to job to Hart. Hart always rubbed me the wrong way and was probably as big an egomaniac as Shawn or Hulk or whoever at the time. Nor could I blame him for not wanting to job to Austin. The guy had to work during the lowest point of pro wrestling in years and when business is up again, he wants to be a part of it. Unfortuneatly his back was all messed up and he couldn't continue. Keep in mind that wrestling is business and in business you always look out for number 1 and thats yourself.

[Stotty]

go to youtube, type in undertaker off the redord, the interview's up, im watching now, so ill update later