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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 10, 2007 19:53:06 GMT -5
Well, yes it is legit if it turns out to be turn, and people don't criticize Arn/Finley the way the did HHH/HBK for something that was never proven. Again, it's not. If a friend of mine screws up and I suffer for it, I'm willing to give him a break, but if some guy I can't stand so much as pushes me, I won't be pleased. Not to say anyone here is "friends" with Arn Anderson, but that's the general idea. Godz, you're not taking into consideration that, while yes, Punk's only been on TV since mid 2006, the fact is that the crowd reactions he gets are far beyond anything that says "You know who he should feud with/lose his first singles match to? Bob "never been over" Holly." If Punk were just a regular midcard talent, say on Kevin Thorne's level, I'd agree with you, but the guy gets some of the bigger reactions in ECW right now, far as I can tell. No need to waste him on Holly, build Holly up before doing that, at least. It shouldn't be a big deal, but it's pretty indicative of the "booking culture" within the WWE: nonsensical and with no regard whatsoever for crowd reactions.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 10, 2007 19:54:08 GMT -5
Holly aside, I think it is INSANE to call Punk buried when he main evented a PPV where Tommy Dreamer jobbed to a jobber, The Sandman didn't have a match, and Al Snow, Stevie Richards, CW Anderson and several others werent even booked. Absolutely no one has said he was "buried," unless I didn't read this thread closely enough. Plenty of people have seen it as a head-scratch-inducing booking call, though.
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Johnny Danger (Godz)
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Post by Johnny Danger (Godz) on Jan 10, 2007 19:59:51 GMT -5
Holly aside, I think it is INSANE to call Punk buried when he main evented a PPV where Tommy Dreamer jobbed to a jobber, The Sandman didn't have a match, and Al Snow, Stevie Richards, CW Anderson and several others werent even booked. Absolutely no one has said he was "buried," unless I didn't read this thread closely enough. Plenty of people have seen it as a head-scratch-inducing booking call, though. Born Again Dentist has twice said it'll seem as if Punk is being buried if Holly comes out on top in the feud. Other people might've said it too but i dont wanna re-read 5 pages. And let me just say I'm not aware of Holly being used to "put over Kennedy" cause I dont watch Smackdown.
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Post by voiceboxisback on Jan 10, 2007 20:00:44 GMT -5
I’ll go ahead and put a disclaimer on this one. I don’t know how much of this I buy in to at all. I wasn’t pissed that Punk lost last night, just a little puzzled that he lost as cleanly as he did. But this has been reported, so I’m going to post it. Believe it or not, tear apart who is blamed or tear apart Scherer for being full of it, your call. This is from the hotline, somewhat word for word: “There were a lot of people on the ECW brand last night who were stunned to see CM Punk jobbing clean to a midcarder like Hardcore Holly on ECW last night. The story from what I’ve been told is that this has stemmed back all the way from December To Dismember. When Heyman was still helping book the show, he wanted CM Punk to be the one to choke out Big Show with the Anaconda Vice early on, and shock everyone watching. According to those who were there, Arn Anderson and Finlay both stepped in and made sure that didn’t happen. I was told that Arn had said that Punk isn’t over and that his finisher isn’t over and that he should not be the one to take out Big Show. They went to Vince with this, and of course Vince sided with the big monstrous guy in Lashley. From that point on, Finlay and Arn have not exactly been pulling for Punk so to speak. Lagana doesn’t want to mix it up with the agents like Heyman would have, so he just goes with flow. The interesting thing I’ve heard is that initially CM Punk was supposed to lose via screw job last night by Holly with his feet on the ropes or with a ref bump. The finish was instead changed to what you saw. It’s been long said that Stephanie McMahon doesn’t see value in CM Punk for what ever reason. So basically as it stands, Punk doesn’t exactly have friends in WWE. While there are people in the company who say that Holly is a good man and that he’s been in the company for a long while, it doesn’t change the fact that he’s a midcarder, always has been and always will be. And that guy ended the winning streak of someone supposedly not over while the fans were chanting his name during the match. And people from Raw and Smackdown did notice the difference in how the undefeated wrestler on Raw was booked, and how the undefeated wrestler on ECW was booked. Unbelievable, that’s all I can tell you.” -PWI Hotline It was said that Arn was a fan of Punk after seeing him work in OVW. Also I highly doubt they claimed Punk wasn't over. Wasn't it reported as well that HHH had a change of heart and started putting Punk over in the back after the SS match, where Punk out-poped DX and everyone that night for that matter, saying Punk could be the future of the WWE? If so, why would steph still hold a grudge? Once again, I highly doubt that they said Punk wasn't over. But I do think that since Heyman is gone Punk will have a much harder time.
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
changed his name
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Post by The OP on Jan 10, 2007 20:05:43 GMT -5
Absolutely no one has said he was "buried," unless I didn't read this thread closely enough. Plenty of people have seen it as a head-scratch-inducing booking call, though. Born Again Dentist has twice said it'll seem as if Punk is being buried if Holly comes out on top in the feud. Other people might've said it too but i dont wanna re-read 5 pages. And let me just say I'm not aware of Holly being used to "put over Kennedy" cause I dont watch Smackdown. Just to clear things up, Kennedy's first feud and his first PPV match was a victory over Holly.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by Joekishi on Jan 10, 2007 20:12:24 GMT -5
Well, yes it is legit if it turns out to be turn, and people don't criticize Arn/Finley the way the did HHH/HBK for something that was never proven. you can't prove anything unless the guys do fess up to it. And wth does your first sentence mean? Are you saying this news is legit?
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 10, 2007 20:17:57 GMT -5
That's if the feud ends that way. I'd have to agree in that case.
But nobody's saying just losing this match is going to do some kind of magical, irreversible, irrevocable harm to Punk's image. It won't. I think a lot of it, again, just feel it's indicative of a larger booking issue facing the WWE.
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Johnny Danger (Godz)
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Posts: 27,736
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Post by Johnny Danger (Godz) on Jan 10, 2007 20:24:15 GMT -5
That's if the feud ends that way. I'd have to agree in that case. But nobody's saying just losing this match is going to do some kind of magical, irreversible, irrevocable harm to Punk's image. It won't. I think a lot of it, again, just feel it's indicative of a larger booking issue facing the WWE. Meh. one of my non-WC friends has been crying to me all day that it was burial already
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Post by kit on Jan 10, 2007 20:25:56 GMT -5
If you read Meltzer's preview of this weeks newsletter, he says there is a big story behind punk's loss, so who knows?
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Jeff
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 7,074
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Post by Jeff on Jan 10, 2007 20:35:40 GMT -5
I smell bullshit
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 10, 2007 20:38:53 GMT -5
That's if the feud ends that way. I'd have to agree in that case. But nobody's saying just losing this match is going to do some kind of magical, irreversible, irrevocable harm to Punk's image. It won't. I think a lot of it, again, just feel it's indicative of a larger booking issue facing the WWE. Meh. one of my non-WC friends has been crying to me all day that it was burial already Ach, then he needs a nice shower and a warm cup o' tea to calm his nerves. Some people, really. Oh God, don't tell me the Scherer story is actually true. I'm pullin' for ya, Punker. Me and all the other ROHbots who want you main eventing Wrestlemania sometime in the next few years. The Scherer hotline piece might still be nothing but crap, but if Meltzer reports it, I'm gonna have to give it more credence.
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Post by voiceboxisback on Jan 10, 2007 20:41:19 GMT -5
Meh. one of my non-WC friends has been crying to me all day that it was burial already Ach, then he needs a nice shower and a warm cup o' tea to calm his nerves. Some people, really. Oh God, don't tell me the Scherer story is actually true. I'm pullin' for ya, Punker. Me and all the other ROHbots who want you main eventing Wrestlemania sometime in the next few years. The Scherer hotline piece might still be nothing but crap, but if Meltzer reports it, I'm gonna have to give it more credence. when does the newsletter come out?
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Post by MGH on Jan 10, 2007 20:41:20 GMT -5
Now what's going to be funny is if Meltzer reports this and all of a sudden people go from calling bull**** on it to "I KNEW IT! PUNK IS DONE 4!@!@@@1!!1".
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
changed his name
Posts: 15,785
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Post by The OP on Jan 10, 2007 20:42:48 GMT -5
Until I know differently, I think Punk will still end up being pushed, because it seems like a good idea. He's not my favorite wrestler, but the support he gets from a lot of internet fans is no mystery to me. I can tell he tries his ass off in the ring, and I enjoy watching him.
Some of those same internet fans might not understand why I see some of the same qualities in a guy like Bob Holly, but that's beside the point for now.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 10, 2007 20:45:03 GMT -5
Now what's going to be funny is if Meltzer reports this and all of a sudden people go from calling bull**** on it to "I KNEW IT! PUNK IS DONE 4!@!@@@1!!1". Well, to be fair, again, you can disagree with Meltzer's opinions on matches, shows, and people however much you like, but when it comes to reporting actual news, few people in the industry have as good sources as he does. It's kind of like Peter Gammons in the world of Major League Baseball reporting; you can argue he doesn't always know what he's talking about, or that he's not the best reporter going, but I'll be damned if that guy doesn't have some high-ranking sources. Not to say those sources are always telling the truth, but you know what I'm saying.
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Post by MGH on Jan 10, 2007 20:47:50 GMT -5
Now what's going to be funny is if Meltzer reports this and all of a sudden people go from calling bull**** on it to "I KNEW IT! PUNK IS DONE 4!@!@@@1!!1". Well, to be fair, again, you can disagree with Meltzer's opinions on matches, shows, and people however much you like, but when it comes to reporting actual news, few people in the industry have as good sources as he does. It's kind of like Peter Gammons in the world of Major League Baseball reporting; you can argue he doesn't always know what he's talking about, or that he's not the best reporter going, but I'll be damned if that guy doesn't have some high-ranking sources. Not to say those sources are always telling the truth, but you know what I'm saying. Oh listen, I get that completely. But some people have their noses way too far up Meltzer's ass sometimes for their own good on believing every word he writes.
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Post by voiceboxisback on Jan 10, 2007 20:49:56 GMT -5
Once again, when does the newsletter come out?
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"IcePic" Rick Cobos
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Post by "IcePic" Rick Cobos on Jan 10, 2007 20:58:27 GMT -5
Once again, when does the newsletter come out? You have to make a subscription.
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Post by voiceboxisback on Jan 10, 2007 21:06:22 GMT -5
Once again, when does the newsletter come out? You have to make a subscription. I know... I just want to know when other sites will report the story in it
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Post by kit on Jan 10, 2007 21:09:58 GMT -5
You have to make a subscription. I know... I just want to know when other sites will report the story in it Thursday at the earliest. More likely Friday or Saturday.
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