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Post by Joker on Jun 27, 2007 11:06:43 GMT -5
Ok I think everyone needs to calm down here, thank you.
The facts about steroids are, we don't know. We have no actual official comment on that and won't till next week after the toxicology report is released so drop it.
This is a thread for news and reflection. Not a 'who done it from CSI'
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Post by millionurkle on Jun 27, 2007 11:07:01 GMT -5
all in all, i still feel that chris was a victim, but only a victim of himself.
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Post by skillz on Jun 27, 2007 11:07:58 GMT -5
You are entitled to do that. I just don't think his wrestling career negates what he did here. Would you show sympathy to a great financial analyst if he killed his wife and kid? Ultimately, wrestling was Benoit's job. He played a character on television. That's it. Some found him entertaining, others (like me) didn't care for him. Either way, it was just a role he played for income. It shouldn't overshadow what he did to his family. Pay tribute to Nancy and Daniel. They were the victims here, not Chris. Whatever. You do what you want. Cool. I'll put up a beautiful signature of Hilter floating in the clouds with the caption: "we'll never forget this man of great leadership qualities, RIP". I'm sure that will be treated with much respect. Occupational skill vs. murder. Tough choice.
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Post by Bubble Lead on Jun 27, 2007 11:08:16 GMT -5
all in all, i still feel that chris was a victim, but only a victim of himself. Exactly, well put. I feel sorry for Benoit but I can't excuse his actions.
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Jun 27, 2007 11:10:20 GMT -5
I think the bottom line of this case is we'll never know the truth, not now that the polcie have set their minds on it being Benoit certainly. I can't dismiss a 4th party, and if you put your new hate for Benoit on the backburner and really think, there's too much weird stuff about the case for it to be so categoric that Benoit went psycho. I do still have to believe he did it, since it is the most likely (but not definite) answer, but a theory that has been formulating is the following(bear in midn the latest news I've heard is what was reported yesterday about the tying-up Nancy and the blood under her head). I know it'll sound like some crazy thing from a TV show, but it doesn't make it any less possible. Less likely, perhaps, but not less possible. Benoit's out, there's a knock on the door. Nancy answers, the real killer strikes her over the head, explaining the blood under her head. He ties her up and gags her. Then he calls Chris, threatening that he'll hurt his wife if Chris doesn't get back there or calls the police. Chris returns, but Nancy is already dead. The killer then threatens Daniel, taking Chris's phone and making the incriminating text messages to Chavo. The killer then kills Daniel (possibly drugs Benoit up beforehand). Assuming Benoit isn't drugged up, when Benoit wakes he's tied to the weight machine, and is hung. Assumnig he is drugged up, Benoit wakes, thinks the past 2 days have been hallucinations and that he's the killer, and kills himself.
Now I know that sounds very ridiculous, and I'll get flamed to death for it, but I'm not trying to defend Benoit- I'm trying to find a way to rationalise and explain the situation. I can't rule out that an incident similar to that involving a 4th party was the real answer, but we'll never know.
Assuming it was Benoit (Which I sadly have to still believe), I don't know what to think. I detest murderers, and have long been a supporter of the death penalty, but there's no mroe you can do to Benoit now, and I cannot think that he was in his right mind when this occurred. The Chris Benoit of Friday-Monday was not the same man of the previous 40 years, IMO. I mourn Benoit simply as who he was prior to this incident. Whoever the Chris Benoit was who committed these crimes, I cannot mourn.
I don't want to let this rest on my mind any more ,so I won't be posting again in this thread, or any further speculative threads on the subject.
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Post by Fruity Delicious Skittles on Jun 27, 2007 11:11:11 GMT -5
Who else did it then? Benoit won't get a trial because he took the cowardly way out. When is it right to condemn a man then? What is worse than killing your wife and your own son? I seriously can't believe any one is even daring to suggest that he may not have done it or that it isn't 100 % confirmed. Please enlighten me as to who else perpetrated this sickening crime? You're kidding, right? You're 100% positive because you read on the Internet that some DA in Georgia made the call after only 5 hours of investigation, before autospy or toxocology or really any significant testing, and without trial or representation? Wow. All I've got to say to that is "wow." But to answer your question, there are many possible scenarios. I don't rule out the originally leaked scenario that Nancy killed Daniel and then Chris killed Nancy in a rage. After all, that report got the causes of death all right. Whoever leaked it was clearly in the know somewhere and not just somebody making up crap to get attention. The fact that Nancy was killed with some apparent rage and Daniel was done in more peacefully seems to fit in line with this as well. It wouldn't be the first time a cop or the DA jumped to a conclusion and then stuck with it even if there was some contradictory evidence. Hell, I don't even completely rule out the off possibility of a fourth party. I doubt it, but it makes a lot more sense than a so-called paranoid skitzo whose symptoms develop long after they're supposed to and who for some reason isn't paranoid about the vulnerability of being in the ring with people who kill you and make it look like an accident, all while surrounded by thousands of people who were among the millions who knew exactly where you'd be at that exact time and have a clear shot at you. Paranoid people just don't put themselves into situations like that much. Kind of the point of paranoia. But the real point is that the decision on his guilt was made extremely quickly and he will never get a defense. Considering as has been pointed many many times, this whole thing makes no sense, I think that qualifies as "reasonable doubt." Oh, and it's not my job to figure out who did it. It's the job of someone who decided before all the facts were in. I'm just pointing out that he/she is bad at their job. They have proved Daniel died hours AFTER Nancy. That's why it is pretty crystal clear that Benoit did it.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Jun 27, 2007 11:12:14 GMT -5
Debra is just looking to get her old wrinkled ass in the news again I find it amazing that half the people here don't think the Crippler had any moral responsibility. Of the remaining half, half of them don't think we should talk about steroids. Of the remaining quarter, half of them don't think we should talk about spousal abuse. This is very disheartening. I hope that Debra or any other woman abused by a wrestler screams it from the mountaintops. I used to like SCSA like everyone else, but I just look at him now as a scumbag.
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Post by tragicheroparade on Jun 27, 2007 11:13:42 GMT -5
I find it amazing that half the people here don't think the Crippler had any moral responsibility. Of the remaining half, half of them don't think we should talk about steroids. Of the remaining quarter, half of them don't think we should talk about spousal abuse. This is very disheartening. Especially since Debra has gone out of her way to avoid the wrestling spotlight and move on with her life. She has an entirely different career outside of wrestling now. Anyone ever think maybe she had good reasons for doing that? I don't see her comments in the news as trying to get press or get her name out there. I see them as comments from a woman who has intimate knowledge of what goes on within the underbelly of professional wrestling and WWE itself. Debra isn't saying anything that many haven't already said on here. That something needs to be done to keep all these wrestlers from dying, commiting suicide, or in the case of Chris Benoit, being driven to murder. It simply can't all be a coincidence. A lot of factors play into this, I think. All of them have to do with the increased schedule and money. Bigger bucks are in Wrestling than 25 years ago, but the schedule is much more demanding. Wrestlers are doing five or six shows a week, are running the risk of multiple concussions weekly -- a lot of them fight through them, which you just really shouldn't do. A lot of them are taking substances -- steroids, greenies, to stay up and stay on top of their games. This is the first generation of Wrestler to make a big amount of money, and there aren't many veterans who really can serve as examples of how to go about that lifestyle responsibly. Hogan is probably the most stable that I can think of in his twilight era, but he can't get out of his own way sometimes. Flair has kind of had a broken home life. Andre the Giant is dead. The Warrior hates everyone and everyone hates him. All the guys that initially benefited from the Wrestling boom are either out of comission, gone, or unwilling to help talk to these guys. And so in that way it's still a bit of a carnival atmosphere, just a really high-priced, dangerous one, with illegal substances and head injuries to really big, dangerous men. These men are the gladiators of our time frame. Give an ancient Gladiator some horse steroids, a couple lines of coke, some greenies, and a handful of concussions over a decade. Then call him ugly. See what happens to you.
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Post by jonstone on Jun 27, 2007 11:14:06 GMT -5
With the rumors of Benoit being paranoid, and not acting like himself for over a year, and the recent deaths of his friends, am I the only one that thinks he probably would have gotten away with this if he didn't kill himself. I think it would have been rather easy for him to get off on claims of temporary insanity.
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Post by Veladus Jobs To Dead Computers on Jun 27, 2007 11:14:33 GMT -5
You're kidding, right? You're 100% positive because you read on the Internet that some DA in Georgia made the call after only 5 hours of investigation, before autospy or toxocology or really any significant testing, and without trial or representation? Wow. All I've got to say to that is "wow." But to answer your question, there are many possible scenarios. I don't rule out the originally leaked scenario that Nancy killed Daniel and then Chris killed Nancy in a rage. After all, that report got the causes of death all right. Whoever leaked it was clearly in the know somewhere and not just somebody making up crap to get attention. The fact that Nancy was killed with some apparent rage and Daniel was done in more peacefully seems to fit in line with this as well. It wouldn't be the first time a cop or the DA jumped to a conclusion and then stuck with it even if there was some contradictory evidence. Other message boards are mocking the posters here for sticking up for Benoit. I didin't really believe that could be true, and then I read this. You are in utter, ridiculous, denial, and know nothing about the crimininal investigation process. This wasn't a "DA Call" - there's nothing to prosecute, everyone's dead. The investigators knew what happened 10 minutes after they walked in the house. Oh noes, someone on the Internet is mocking people for disagreeing with them, whatever shall we do? BTW, denial would indicate I think he's innocent. Which I don't. I'm withholding judgment. Believe it or not, the founding fathers put all that garble about the right to counsel and a fair trial in there for a reason. They weren't just bored and had nothing better to do. The reason it's not happening here, as you so masterfully pointed out, is that everyone's dead. So there's no point in wasting tax payer money to possibly exonerate a corpse. I love the "ten minute" line too. Even if there was a fourth party, you think they can tell in ten minutes? Let me guess, because the door wasn't kicked in then it had to be Benoit since no criminal has ever been able to enter a house without forcable entry? But go on mocking anyone who doesn't jump to conclusions. I'm sure you can use some of the same lines they used on anyone who questioned the Kennedy assassination at first.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Jun 27, 2007 11:14:34 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2007 11:15:23 GMT -5
Whatever. You do what you want. Cool. I'll put up a beautiful signature of Hilter floating in the clouds with the caption: "we'll never forget this man of great leadership qualities, RIP". I'm sure that will be treated with much respect. Occupational skill vs. murder. Tough choice. Dude wtf is your problem? I was trying to just squash this by dropping it altogether, but I didn't know you were going to continue being an ass about this.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Jun 27, 2007 11:17:17 GMT -5
Hey we're all starting to take this a little too personal now I think...
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Mr. Mediocre
Hank Scorpio
Bert Early?... sorry, that's a typo. Butt. Ugly.
Much better since I was last here.
Posts: 6,249
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Post by Mr. Mediocre on Jun 27, 2007 11:19:06 GMT -5
Hey we're all starting to take this a little too personal now I think... That's been a trend since the first damn thread. We all need to calm the smurf down.
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Post by millionurkle on Jun 27, 2007 11:20:26 GMT -5
All i can say about chris is that this reminds me of kurt cobain's death. even though kurt never killed anyone else, that was only because noone was there around him. if courtney love was ther idk what would happen. so even though u can say, "well kurt never killed his family" u never know.
all i know is that both had severe mental problems that no one knew how severe they were.
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hulkhogan2
Tommy Wiseau
No...Let me tell you something brotha!
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Post by hulkhogan2 on Jun 27, 2007 11:25:05 GMT -5
The following is an excerpt of a "Torch Talk" interview PWTorch editor Wade Keller conducted with Chris Benoit in August 1995, before he became a nationally known star in WCW and later the WWF. In this segment of the interview, he talks about several subjects in the news this week...
Keller: Steroids have been a big part of pro wrestling for the better part of two decades. Have they been something you've felt pressure to take over the years because of your size?
Benoit: In my early years in Calgary, the place to be back then was the WWF. My idols were the British Bulldogs and they were in there. It was basically a big man's territory back then. It was like you were never going to be nothing unless you were bigger. Not only was my weight a problem, but I felt my height was a problem also. I'm about 5-9 or 5-10.
Keller: When you had used steroids, did you find it helped you in the ring with increased strength or did it hurt because of a decrease in stamina?
Benoit: It improves strengths and helps you put on weight and everything. Back then you didn't really look at any of the side-effects. You didn't look long-term. It's sort of like smoking was in the '50s. You really weren't aware of how bad it was for you. I didn't really know what I was doing.
Keller: What is your status now for how you try to stay in shape?
Benoit: I try to train as much as I can. Diet is a real big part of it. It's the biggest part. In terms of energy and stamina and everything, I really watch what I eat. When I go over to Japan, I usually bring a steamer with me and most of the time I end up cooking in my room instead of eating in restaurants because I like all of my food steamed and take lots of supplements like MetRx and stuff. I'm a real vitamin junkie, a vitamin freak.
Keller: Is MetRx the best supplement from what you've tried?
Benoit: I'm not into comparing companies. I just look for high protein and low fat and take it. I'm really into that, though.
Keller: What are some of the things that work best in terms of diet and training for you that may work for others?
Benoit: Everyone has a different stamina. It's hard for me to tell someone how to eat and how to train because they might have a totally different stamina than I do. Some guys have fast metabolisms and some guys have slower metabolisms and different builds. You really have to experiment to find something that works for you. Right now I've found a course of diet and training that I feel is really working well for me.
Keller: How does your family, your wife and your child react to your schedule in wrestling?
Benoit: It's really tough. It's a really hard balancing act. When I come home, I really try to distance myself from the business as much as I can. I don't watch wrestling on TV or anything like that. I really try to get away from it when I get home. I have good, quality family time. Because I know the next time I go on the road, usually when I go to Japan, it's for two weeks or three weeks. The last time I went it was six weeks. It gets tough sometimes.
Keller: Is there pressure from your family to work fewer dates or fewer tours even if it cuts back on your paychecks?
Benoit: Not really. I have a very understanding wife.
Keller: Any final comments you want to make?
Benoit: No, not really. I just want to improve myself. My long term goal is to establish myself more in the States. I'd like to have a pretty good run there at one time or another.
Benoit interview from 1995 where he talks of steroid use and other stuff. When he takes about his wife its not Nancy, this was before they were together.
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Post by skillz on Jun 27, 2007 11:26:44 GMT -5
Cool. I'll put up a beautiful signature of Hilter floating in the clouds with the caption: "we'll never forget this man of great leadership qualities, RIP". I'm sure that will be treated with much respect. Occupational skill vs. murder. Tough choice. Dude wtf is your problem? I was trying to just squash this by dropping it altogether, but I didn't know you were going to continue being an ass about this. "Continue being an ass" would imply that I was being an ass from the beginning. I wasn't. My reply there was illustrating how ignoring a person's actions just because of an occupational skill is ignorant. Your reaction to my Hitler example would imply that I had a point.
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hulkhogan2
Tommy Wiseau
No...Let me tell you something brotha!
Posts: 76
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Post by hulkhogan2 on Jun 27, 2007 11:28:03 GMT -5
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Matt Rogers
King Koopa
member is currently offline <stalking Emma Watson>
Omae wa mo shindeiru.
Posts: 11,869
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Post by Matt Rogers on Jun 27, 2007 11:28:52 GMT -5
Dude wtf is your problem? I was trying to just squash this by dropping it altogether, but I didn't know you were going to continue being an ass about this. "Continue being an ass" would imply that I was being an ass from the beginning. I wasn't. My reply there was illustrating how ignoring a person's actions just because of an occupational skill is ignorant. Your reaction would imply that I had a point. But nobody is ignoring his actions now, they're simply acknowleding his skill as well. I will always appreciate Chris Benoit as a wrestler, but what he's done now turns my stomach. You can do both, ya know.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2007 11:29:24 GMT -5
Dude wtf is your problem? I was trying to just squash this by dropping it altogether, but I didn't know you were going to continue being an ass about this. "Continue being an ass" would imply that I was being an ass from the beginning. I wasn't. My reply there was illustrating how ignoring a person's actions just because of an occupational skill is ignorant. Your reaction would imply that I had a point. No one is trying to ignore what he did. I definitely am not. I was just opposed to you criticizing people who decide that they want to remember Benoit in a more positive light. Although this is a horrible tragedy, a few of us actually think that this shouldn't be the thing that defines who Benoit is.
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