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Post by Ijob2HHH on Jun 30, 2007 13:29:52 GMT -5
One thing to point out is that Yokozuna should not be blamed on wrestling or the WWE. He lived pretty long for a sumo wrestler actually. Most of them die before 30.
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 23,402
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Post by Legion on Jun 30, 2007 13:31:26 GMT -5
But that bring up another question, what qualifies you for a pension? How long do you have to work there? Do you need to have reached a certain level? Do you get more money in your pension if you reach the top level? Do you love money from your pension if you're pushed but then fail to stay over? Lots to consider. Sure, but thats wooden nickles that can be figured and calculated out. In general, do you agree with me? I think its a nice idea, but i think it's opening a can of worms for further problems. It'll also cost a lot of money, so that's less wrestlers getting hired, higher ppv prices, etc etc. However, i shall say i agree in principal
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rra
King Koopa
Posts: 10,145
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Post by rra on Jun 30, 2007 13:31:45 GMT -5
One thing to point out is that Yokozuna should not be blamed on wrestling or the WWE. He lived pretty long for a sumo wrestler actually. Most of them die before 30. How much did he weight anyway when he died?
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STMP
Hank Scorpio
Wild and Only 50
Posts: 5,569
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Post by STMP on Jun 30, 2007 13:34:15 GMT -5
It's difficult. I don't want to see the US government get its hands on the WWE. Because they don't know shit about pro-wrestling.
The american government is ruled by lobbyist anyway, so if Vince can get the right people on his side he can actually turn this into a positive. If Vince can't, then the public opinion will be the deciding factor and stupid ideas will be used that won't benefit anybody. For example, stronger regulation on illegal drug use. While most medicine wrestlers take was prescribed by a doctor. The drugs that kill them are often legal drugs. And you can't prohibit that, at times wrestlers even need steroids to heal from a serious injury.
A union would be the best idea. Wrestlers themselves could make their own demands that would benefit them and Vince would have a steady group of people who he could negotiate with.
And that is where the problem is. Vince is the only guy in town. He could easily boycot every wrestler who is part of an union. And they can not make that many demands on the indy circuit, unless you are a big name and in that case you don't need an union, because you are treated like a big star anyway and can get most of the things you want.
So it comes down to something that everyone has been complaining about for years now. Competition. Animal said it too, if you wanted to take a day off, you could just do it and right now you're fired if you do that because there is only one big promotion.
Pro-wrestling needs competition and that is where the government could have played a role, making sure that there would not be a monopoly. They didn't act upon the sale of WCW and trying to influence pro-wrestling right now is almost impossible.
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Jay Peas 42
El Dandy
Totally flips out ALL the time.
Is looking forward to a Nation of Domination Kwannza Special.
Posts: 8,329
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Post by Jay Peas 42 on Jun 30, 2007 13:37:20 GMT -5
The problem is the Market rewards steroid and drug use.
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rra
King Koopa
Posts: 10,145
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Post by rra on Jun 30, 2007 13:38:31 GMT -5
It's difficult. I don't want to see the US government get its hands on the WWE. Because they don't know crap about pro-wrestling. The american government is ruled by lobbyist anyway, so if Vince can get the right people on his side he can actually turn this into a positive. If Vince can't, then the public opinion will be the deciding factor and stupid ideas will be used that won't benefit anybody. For example, stronger regulation on illegal drug use. While most medicine wrestlers take was prescribed by a doctor. The drugs that kill them are often legal drugs. And you can't prohibit that, at times wrestlers even need steroids to heal from a serious injury. A union would be the best idea. Wrestlers themselves could make their own demands that would benefit them and Vince would have a steady group of people who he could negotiate with. And that is where the problem is. Vince is the only guy in town. He could easily boycot every wrestler who is part of an union. And they can not make that many demands on the indy circuit, unless you are a big name and in that case you don't need an union, because you are treated like a big star anyway and can get most of the things you want. So it comes down to something that everyone has been complaining about for years now. Competition. Animal said it too, if you wanted to take a day off, you could just do it and right now you're fired if you do that because there is only one big promotion. Pro-wrestling needs competition and that is where the government could have played a role, making sure that there would not be a monopoly. They didn't act upon the sale of WCW and trying to influence pro-wrestling right now is almost impossible. The intense rivalry of the Monday Night Wars didn't do much for combating roids or painkillers or what not. Thing is, the only way a WWE Union could happen is if a huge star, maybe a Cena or Undertaker or whatever, that WWE can't afford to simply fire is willing to risk himself for the sake of his professional comrades.
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Post by jfpierce on Jun 30, 2007 13:38:39 GMT -5
One thing to point out is that Yokozuna should not be blamed on wrestling or the WWE. He lived pretty long for a sumo wrestler actually. Most of them die before 30. I don't know if you're exaggerating or not, but the average lifespan of a Sumo Wrestler, while a lot shorter than the average Japanese, is into his fifties.
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STMP
Hank Scorpio
Wild and Only 50
Posts: 5,569
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Post by STMP on Jun 30, 2007 13:44:29 GMT -5
It's difficult. I don't want to see the US government get its hands on the WWE. Because they don't know crap about pro-wrestling. The american government is ruled by lobbyist anyway, so if Vince can get the right people on his side he can actually turn this into a positive. If Vince can't, then the public opinion will be the deciding factor and stupid ideas will be used that won't benefit anybody. For example, stronger regulation on illegal drug use. While most medicine wrestlers take was prescribed by a doctor. The drugs that kill them are often legal drugs. And you can't prohibit that, at times wrestlers even need steroids to heal from a serious injury. A union would be the best idea. Wrestlers themselves could make their own demands that would benefit them and Vince would have a steady group of people who he could negotiate with. And that is where the problem is. Vince is the only guy in town. He could easily boycot every wrestler who is part of an union. And they can not make that many demands on the indy circuit, unless you are a big name and in that case you don't need an union, because you are treated like a big star anyway and can get most of the things you want. So it comes down to something that everyone has been complaining about for years now. Competition. Animal said it too, if you wanted to take a day off, you could just do it and right now you're fired if you do that because there is only one big promotion. Pro-wrestling needs competition and that is where the government could have played a role, making sure that there would not be a monopoly. They didn't act upon the sale of WCW and trying to influence pro-wrestling right now is almost impossible. The intense rivalry of the Monday Night Wars didn't do much for combating roids or painkillers or what not. Thing is, the only way a WWE Union could happen is if a huge star, maybe a Cena or Undertaker or whatever, that WWE can't afford to simply fire is willing to risk himself for the sake of his professional comrades. But the monday night wars did put pro-wrestlers into great bargaining situations. The salaries where a lot bigger during the ratingswar, they could make much bigger demands. And with a union backing them it could benefit a lot of wrestlers.
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rra
King Koopa
Posts: 10,145
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Post by rra on Jun 30, 2007 13:46:30 GMT -5
The intense rivalry of the Monday Night Wars didn't do much for combating roids or painkillers or what not. Thing is, the only way a WWE Union could happen is if a huge star, maybe a Cena or Undertaker or whatever, that WWE can't afford to simply fire is willing to risk himself for the sake of his professional comrades. But the monday night wars did put pro-wrestlers into great bargaining situations. The salaries where a lot bigger during the ratingswar, they could make much bigger demands. And with a union backing them it could benefit a lot of wrestlers. OK you're right on that. I like that "union" pension plan that ROH is involved with. Its a good thing.
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jobber2thestars
Hank Scorpio
Buy the Simon System. You'll thank yourself.
Posts: 7,097
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Post by jobber2thestars on Jun 30, 2007 14:00:43 GMT -5
But the monday night wars did put pro-wrestlers into great bargaining situations. The salaries where a lot bigger during the ratingswar, they could make much bigger demands. And with a union backing them it could benefit a lot of wrestlers. OK you're right on that. I like that "union" pension plan that ROH is involved with. Its a good thing. I'm not very knowledgable on ROH, so this pension plan sounds very interesting. Would you mind explaing it a little more?
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MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 14,055
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Jun 30, 2007 14:13:32 GMT -5
I agree wrestling needs to be fixed, and cleaning up steroids will be part of that. The way to do that, though, isn't necessarily government intervention, but to get rid of the incentive to take steroids in the first place. This whole "fans want to see bulked-up monsters" line of thought went out in the 80's. Being big should be a disadvantage rather than an advantage in determining who gets pushed. We have older, smarter fans now who can see beyond the characters, and would rather see more fast-paced matches anyway. Make that the focus, and nobody will have to take steroids to get in the main event.
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rra
King Koopa
Posts: 10,145
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Post by rra on Jun 30, 2007 14:14:37 GMT -5
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Post by D2: Sweet & Sour Edition on Jun 30, 2007 14:18:06 GMT -5
I just want to know why the hell everybody keeps throwing Owen into the mix, when he died of an accident having absolutely nothing to do with drug use.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,388
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jun 30, 2007 14:19:03 GMT -5
Yeah, wrestling needs it's own shitty corrupt union.
Wrestling may need a lot of changes, but I don't think a union is the answer.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,388
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jun 30, 2007 14:21:02 GMT -5
I just want to know why the hell everybody keeps throwing Owen into the mix, when he died of an accident having absolutely nothing to do with drug use. Because it's another name for their list of death. The media doesn't really care how Owen died, they just use his death to sensationalize the point they're trying to make.
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Post by Hassan bin Sober on Jun 30, 2007 14:22:29 GMT -5
Yokozuna wasn't a sumo. Just a fat pro wrestler in sumo-like gear.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jun 30, 2007 14:51:33 GMT -5
I just want to know why the hell everybody keeps throwing Owen into the mix, when he died of an accident having absolutely nothing to do with drug use. He died in a wrestling-performance related incident, so he's still a wrestler who died on the job. It's not right to tie him in with those who DID die of drug use, but he wasn't killed in athletic competition, he was killed in a stunt. Jesse Ventura, I've heard, tried to form a union back in the day, but Hulk Hogan wouldn't go along with it (I'm sure other top card guys wouldn't, either), so it got shot down. Maybe the answer is like what GPWA is doing (the NOAH/ZERO ONE alliance that includes ROH); groups binding together to form larger organizations, and perhaps eventually forming into an alliance that can open the doors to things like pensions or unions. If so, maybe that's part of what's needed: GPWA, maybe a new, honest-to-God NWA or AWA - with bunches of smaller promotions existing under their umbrellas, and WWE existing on it's own. At least it'd be a step in the right direction.
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Post by tamuthetongantiger on Jun 30, 2007 15:07:23 GMT -5
I just want to know why the hell everybody keeps throwing Owen into the mix, when he died of an accident having absolutely nothing to do with drug use. He died in a wrestling-performance related incident, so he's still a wrestler who died on the job. It's not right to tie him in with those who DID die of drug use, but he wasn't killed in athletic competition, he was killed in a stunt. Jesse Ventura, I've heard, tried to form a union back in the day, but Hulk Hogan wouldn't go along with it (I'm sure other top card guys wouldn't, either), so it got shot down. Maybe the answer is like what GPWA is doing (the NOAH/ZERO ONE alliance that includes ROH); groups binding together to form larger organizations, and perhaps eventually forming into an alliance that can open the doors to things like pensions or unions. If so, maybe that's part of what's needed: GPWA, maybe a new, honest-to-God NWA or AWA - with bunches of smaller promotions existing under their umbrellas, and WWE existing on it's own. At least it'd be a step in the right direction. A new real NWA would only help if it were fgor the talent, rather than the promoters. ECW press has a new book out on the NWA and, well... it was no better than Vince in a lot of ways. It was a cadre of promoters, not talent. And it served the promoter's interests above all else.
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Post by galen697 on Jun 30, 2007 15:34:51 GMT -5
[quote author=rra board=WWE thread=1183224343 Thats what I want. I want VKM and other promoters to have the fear of God put into them if they don't self-police themselves seriously. [/quote]
Good sentiment, but it'll never happen. Vince will never fear somebody that no-showed one of his PPV's. ;D
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rra
King Koopa
Posts: 10,145
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Post by rra on Jun 30, 2007 15:36:29 GMT -5
[quote author=rra board=WWE thread=1183224343 Thats what I want. I want VKM and other promoters to have the fear of God put into them if they don't self-police themselves seriously. Good sentiment, but it'll never happen. Vince will never fear somebody that no-showed one of his PPV's. ;D[/quote] Thats true but *cue theme music* ITS GOD! Oh My Gawwd! He's here! "Vincent....Kennedy....McMahon...your time...is up." *crowd pop*
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