Vince's claims about hurting other organizations

[willywonka666]

Vince has always claimed WCW was trying to "hurt" the WWF and put them out of business-this may be true, but Vince made his life and career based on that very same plan, how in the Hell could he ever back a comment like this, knowing he basically killed the AWA,NWA,WCW and countless other organizations? Again, how in the Hell could he back that comment, especially following it up with a remark stating that he wouldn't do something like that

[WWHHHD]

He took and offered talent more money. WCW was doing that. He didn't have that big of a problem with that. Its just when they started to read results and so on that was his problem. It ultimately ended up being a saving point for VKM and WWE.

[molson5]

It was a silly thing for him to say.

I guess in his mind, he wasn't really trying to put anyone out of business, he was just trying to expand his own company. Where as WCW was trying strictly to damage the WWF (when there was clearly enough wrestling interest for two companies to survive and thrive).

[mrwednesdaynight]

WCW was able to pay guys more but the work environment was so poisonous that they ended up losing guys like Jericho, Guerrero, and Benoit, regardless of how much they could have offered. And at the end of the day, none of it matters because WCW died with the AOL/Time Warner merger. Unless Nitro and Thunder had been putting up 5.0 rates at the time of the merger, the plug would have still be pulled because the higher ups didnt want wrestling on the network. Vince McMahon had nothing to do with that. He didnt create the political problems that made WCW unwatchable. He didnt approve the AOL/Time Warner merger. He was just in the right place at the right time.

[willywonka666]

mrwednesdaynight said:

WCW was able to pay guys more but the work environment was so poisonous that they ended up losing guys like Jericho, Guerrero, and Benoit, regardless of how much they could have offered. And at the end of the day, none of it matters because WCW died with the AOL/Time Warner merger. Unless Nitro and Thunder had been putting up 5.0 rates at the time of the merger, the plug would have still be pulled because the higher ups didnt want wrestling on the network. Vince McMahon had nothing to do with that. He didnt create the political problems that made WCW unwatchable. He didnt approve the AOL/Time Warner merger. He was just in the right place at the right time.

Good point on WCW. You're right

[DAGOTRON LIVES!]

molson5 said:

I guess in his mind, he wasn't really trying to put anyone out of business, he was just trying to expand his own company. Where as WCW was trying strictly to damage the WWF (when there was clearly enough wrestling interest for two companies to survive and thrive).

Yeah, I think this is the line of thought. Bischoff had stated on numerous occasions (and still claims this today) that he was trying to put WWF out of business. I don't think Vince was ever that brazen.

[HRH The KING]

I didn't see anything wrong with WCW intentionally trying to put WWE out of business.

As long as nothing illegal was occuring.

[darthpipes]

Business is business. It doesn't bother me that Vince was stealing wrestlers from the territories and that years later, WCW did the same to him. The only thing that ever bothered me was Vince whining about it years later. He did the same thing that they did in the eighties. The biggest crock of **** he ever said was on the Monday Night Wars DVD when he stated that his business modeo is "Help yourself, don't try to hurt the other guy." Vince started PPVs and big events like the Surviver Series and the Royal Rumble in order to hurt the other guy, ie, Jim Crockett Promotions.

[Seth Drakin of Monster Crap]

and made certain demands that would hurt the other guys as well.

[Bob Schlapowitz]

I don't get why people hate on Vince (or Bischoff) for the way they did business. In the world of business you can be one of two things: an asshole, or broke.

[Deleted]

You're confusing "Mr. Mcmahon" and Vince Mcmahon.

When Mr. Mcmahon goes out on Raw and claims he "Killed WCW", it's kayfabe. In reality Vince Mcmahon knows that WCW was run inefficiently and put itself out of business.

It's the same with the territories. They were behind the times and refused to adapt. They went out of business because no one wanted to watch their shows anymore. Not because of Mcmahon.

[willywonka666]

brentreznor said:

You're confusing "Mr. Mcmahon" and Vince Mcmahon.

When Mr. Mcmahon goes out on Raw and claims he "Killed WCW", it's kayfabe. In reality Vince Mcmahon knows that WCW was run inefficiently and put itself out of business.

It's the same with the territories. They were behind the times and refused to adapt. They went out of business because no one wanted to watch their shows anymore. Not because of Mcmahon.

I think it was a little of both, because as it was mentioned, Vince had some pretty underhanded tactics, like trying to get Harley Race to jump to the WWF before his Starrcade match with Flair,(with the belt, sound familiar?) and a few other things I'm trying to recall

[Randy Barber 4-Life]

I was watching the AWA DVD the other day and thinking how ironic it was that so many of the exact same names (Hogan, Okerlund, Heenan, Hennig, Hall, Sherri Martel, etc.) went from AWA to WWF in the 80s, and then from WWF to WCW in the 90s. Of course when they went to WWF they were free agents pursuing better financial and career opportunities. When they went to WCW they were disloyal and greedy. The only thing I can figure is that for McMahon, the bottom line is the bottom line. If it helps business to buy up all your rival's top draws, do it. If someone buys up your top draws, and it'll help business to point fingers and cry foul even at the risk of sounding hypocritical, do it. Yes, maybe it really is all about the mon-ay.

[destrucity]

The difference is that Vince put his competitors out of business in a fair game. Vince was just better at it than anyone else.
WCW was different in that they owned the cable channels and were able to go on air before his show and announce the results of his program. They had a very unfair advantage in the battle, something Vince didn't have in his battle with Crockett/Gagne/Von Erich/Watts, etc. That is part of the reason why Vince was trying to block the merger of Turner & Time Warner by buying ads in the WSJ & NY Times claiming unfair practices that the FTC should investigate.

[twiggy101]

I wonder why he won't try to steal talent from TNA.

[Bob Schlapowitz]

twiggy101 said:

I wonder why he won't try to steal talent from TNA.

Because 90% of TNA's talent has already worked for him and he's gotten all he wants of of them.

[dannyrctv]

twiggy101 said:

I wonder why he won't try to steal talent from TNA.

Oh He will Trust me!

[eDemento2099]

destrucity said:

The difference is that Vince put his competitors out of business in a fair game. Vince was just better at it than anyone else.
WCW was different in that they owned the cable channels and were able to go on air before his show and announce the results of his program. They had a very unfair advantage in the battle

Cable ownership had nothing to do with that; WCW was able to announce the results of WWF events because WCW aired its shows live, whereas the WWF taped their shows and had them aired after the fact.

[tarheelfan]

I think that the concept of attaining talent from other territories was a bold step and ambitious undertaking that proved to maybe be the biggest acomplishment to lay the foundation for success that the WWE did. However, I agree with other people that Vince also benefited from breaks he caught by misfortunes of other companies. For example if my understanding is correct the first major wrestling supercard of sorts Starcade was aired on close circuit tv but was affected by a snowstorm in various viewing locations. True the first Starcade turned a profit but what if there was no snowstorm across the region and the anticipated audience would have showed up? Could that have propelled the NWA in more momentum? Who knows? What if the AWA would have pushed Hogan with the title instead of Bockwinkle. Could it have been possible that Hogan would have never left the AWA for the WWE again. IMHO, I feel that with no Hogan the WWE would not have grown as big.

[destrucity]

evildead2099 said:

destrucity said:

The difference is that Vince put his competitors out of business in a fair game. Vince was just better at it than anyone else.
WCW was different in that they owned the cable channels and were able to go on air before his show and announce the results of his program. They had a very unfair advantage in the battle

Cable ownership had nothing to do with that; WCW was able to announce the results of WWF events because WCW aired its shows live, whereas the WWF taped their shows and had them aired after the fact.

When the shows were live against each other, Bischoff kept an eye on RAW and was able to determine when he would go to commercial break because they owned the network.
He was also able to go on air a few minutes earlier than RAW to give away the results on weeks they weren't both live. Most wrestling fans would rather of watched the first few minutes of Nitro than the ending of Murder She Wrote.