icansleep
Don Corleone
Wasn't Hornswoggled
Posts: 1,828
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Post by icansleep on Nov 28, 2007 14:53:18 GMT -5
Could someone post a .GIF of the botch for us at-work 'Crappers? WGW is restricted for me. Thanks in advance.
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threev
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 601
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Post by threev on Nov 28, 2007 15:12:47 GMT -5
ODB is god awful.
Women's Wrestling in general is god awful.
But Awesome Kong is all kinds of Awesome, Kong. And she's not the least bit attractive. And neither was Moolah really.
And not too many 105 lbs people are going to have the ability to be athletic in the way you need to be to pull off a good looking wrestling match.
Let girls like Layla and Kelly Kelly stand around and do their dumb dance thing or whatever. Let women who can wrestle, wrestle, if you're going to put on women's matches.
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Post by iamthegamewjwf on Nov 28, 2007 16:09:45 GMT -5
I cant say I disagree with you...but Trish Stratus was eye candy who they trained to become probably the second best women wrestler ever only behind Moolah in my opinion. So the idea of their current eye candy training on the side to become good in the ring isnt really a bad idea. Its working with Candice. To place Trish just under Moolah is an insult to all sorts of female talent. Name some, and tell me why they are better than Trish? and for the record, I'm not just going by talent...I'm going by the total package. ala Chris Benoit may have been more talented than Hulk Hogan in the ring, but Chris Benoit was no Hogan. Molly Holly may have been a better wrestler than Trish, but she is no Trish.
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General Zod
Samurai Cop
KNEEL!
KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!
Posts: 2,163
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Post by General Zod on Nov 28, 2007 16:11:48 GMT -5
I think we must remember that Trish Stratus was the exception and not the rule.
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Post by iamthegamewjwf on Nov 28, 2007 16:30:06 GMT -5
well, its too late now. They put all this eye candy on TV already. Their only choice now is to teach them how to wrestle, if they want them to wrestle. Theyre not going to bring in a bunch of new girls who know how to wrestle when they already have a bunch of girls already on TV that they dont know what to do with.
If they do have a lot of women training, I guess its for the future so when its time to bring a new diva up she already knows how to wrestle. So if you look at it that way, the future is bright for women's wrestling.
honestly, I dont know why I care so much. I really dont even like women's matches that much at all.
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Post by poi zen rana on Nov 28, 2007 16:31:28 GMT -5
To place Trish just under Moolah is an insult to all sorts of female talent. Name some, and tell me why they are better than Trish? and for the record, I'm not just going by talent...I'm going by the total package. ala Chris Benoit may have been more talented than Hulk Hogan in the ring, but Chris Benoit was no Hogan. Molly Holly may have been a better wrestler than Trish, but she is no Trish. trish was good but she wasn't incredible. she just looked that way because women wrestlers in the wwe had looked so silly for so long. don't get me wrong i am not knocking trish, but there are plenty of women who haven't been in the wwe that are amazing. to name just a few sara del rey, nikki roxx, and cheerleader melissa i believe would be above trish. trish may have better mic work then some of these women but mic work isn't everything.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Nov 28, 2007 16:36:09 GMT -5
Back on the important topic here, no way I give her she's getting older thing. Way too big a change too fast.
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Post by iamthegamewjwf on Nov 28, 2007 16:40:23 GMT -5
Back on the important topic here, no way I give her she's getting older thing. Way too big a change too fast. I dont know...I think its a combination of getting older, getting a little thicker and a good push up bra. Bessides, wouldnt she need to miss some time for things to heal up? Shes hasnt missed anytime between the noticable change that I know of. The first time I think it was noticed was around halloween, if I remember correctly, when she was in some sort of costume.
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Post by Lenny: Smooth like Keith Stone on Nov 28, 2007 16:43:12 GMT -5
In terms of ring work, the entire Shimmer roster is better than Trish. Trish was more about being a complete "diva package" in terms of looks, wrestling, personality, etc. I do think that Trish cuts a better promo than much of the Shimmer roster.
In any case, Kelly is no Trish in terms of wrestling ability, personality, promos, etc. I am guessing that someone backstage said "OK Kelly, we want you to do this backflip elbow and the announcers will cream themselves over your talent AND your looks." Problem is, she doesn't have that kind of talent, period. Maybe in a few years she will.
And to the person who had asked, there are a few female wrestling in OVW and the other developmental (the name escapes me) right now. To my knowledge they have Nattie Neidhart, Katie Lea, and Serena Deeb. There may be some others that I am unfamiliar with. All 3 of the women I listed have wrestled in multiple countries, and all 3 of them were in Shimmer at one point or another.
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Kae
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,610
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Post by Kae on Nov 28, 2007 16:49:33 GMT -5
While anyone can botch, I don't think Kelly has had enough training to pull off that sort of acrobatic, high-flying maneuver without being a danger to herself and her partner. I don't understand why the WWE insists on hiring untrained women and then having them wrestle. Even if they feel the need to do so, that sort of training shouldn't be taking place on their main shows. They should send the women to developmental or have the trainers work with them.
Trish is definitely not the second-best women's wrestler of all time. She is talented and may have a high profile, but she's just not up there with Kong, Del Rey and Cheerleader Melissa for me. I'd even rank Lita above her.
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Nov 28, 2007 16:52:18 GMT -5
As much as I' d like to see more talented women in the WWE, I don' t really blame them for being bad performers. Why ? Well, because the WWE doesn' t really pay them to wrestler, but to be pretty ( hence the number of fake boobs, though that isn' t always pretty despite what Vinnimac seems to think ) so yeah, they' re basically doing what they' re asked to do. They do find some actual good wrestlers every now and then ( Lita, Mickie James, Victoria, Beth Phoenix, ... ) but it' s often by chance or by links with other employees ( Lita was part of the Hardy stable, for example ). If you want to blame someone, blame the people who hire them. If they' re not gonna tell their employees to be better wrestlers, then they have no reason to even try, see what I mean ?
That being said and with all due respect for the attempt, DON' T TRY A F' N HANDSPRING ELBOW IF YOU' RE NOT TRAINED ENOUGH, DAMMIT !!
Oh and I don' t get why it seems to have become cool to hate Trish Stratus. Granted she is far from being the best female wrestler ever but come on, she is a MUCH better wrestler than most of the WWE divas past and present ( with a few esceptions like the ones mentionned earlier ) and has a lot of charisma a genuine love for the fans and wrestling. That' s why I still think she' s a great wrestler.
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Post by CrazySting on Nov 28, 2007 16:55:16 GMT -5
Trish was talented, but people talk about her in such high terms you'd think she was the greatest female wrestler to walk the planet, and she wasn't by a wide margin. She went from being terrible to decent, but even then she only ever had okay matches, she never churned out a classic. I think her promos and looks where what made her a big star.
I think the problem with the women's division in WWE has always been the women just do enough to get by and no more. I remember reading Lita's biography and she's spent half the book talking about how great women's wrestling is, then says 'Oh, but we could never be as good as the guys.' Which struck me as a really dumb thing to say but basically sums up the problems the divas have: wwe want them to be good (i.e not botching moves all the time) but they don't want them to be too good (upstaging the guys)
TNA do a lot of things wrong, but I do think they want the girls to be as good as they possibly can be. If Kong has an amazing match with Gail, I doubt they'd get heat because they upstaged the main event.
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Post by iamthegamewjwf on Nov 28, 2007 17:03:10 GMT -5
By most wrestlers opinion, the best wrestler ever is the wrestler who draws the most money.
-other opinions are the best wrestler is the best in ring performer -The best on the mic -or the best combination of mic and in ring work
Now with all of these factors in mind, I still think Trish is second best behind Moolah. Maybe there are better wrestlers with Shimmer or somewhere out there, but can they draw like Trish can draw? Did they ever main event RAW or any nationally televised wrestling program?
Its all a matter of opnion really, but in my opinion Trish was the total package.
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Post by CrazySting on Nov 28, 2007 17:06:27 GMT -5
I'd argue Lita sold way more merchandise than Trish ever did.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Nov 28, 2007 17:06:56 GMT -5
Lita was better than trish. In the ring definately. And as heels, lita's annoying voive gave her an edge as well.
Just saying. You're not wrong because you can't be wrong in opinion. But I never got the big whoop about Trish. And if it's cool to hate her or not, I don't know. She just never seemed that good.
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Post by CrazySting on Nov 28, 2007 17:11:38 GMT -5
I don't mind people saying Trish was a great female perfomer,she was a terrific bitchy heel. But the best female wrestler? I don't recall her ever having a five or even four star match. By wwe women standards her wrestling was good, but looking at the bigger picture (Gaea, all japan women, shimmer) she wasn't impressive at all.
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Post by tankmcquade on Nov 28, 2007 17:12:11 GMT -5
That is definitly a crappy botch.....poor Kelly....
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Post by iamthegamewjwf on Nov 28, 2007 17:15:52 GMT -5
Lita is right up there to...no argument here.
I think Trish had better promos though, and though their wrestling styles where different; I dont think Lita was that much better than Trish. Sure Lita was a good wrestler longer than trish though.
Lita may have sold a lot of merchandise...but she also had help from the Hardy Boyz in that regard.
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Post by poi zen rana on Nov 28, 2007 17:37:48 GMT -5
By most wrestlers opinion, the best wrestler ever is the wrestler who draws the most money. -other opinions are the best wrestler is the best in ring performer -The best on the mic -or the best combination of mic and in ring work Now with all of these factors in mind, I still think Trish is second best behind Moolah. Maybe there are better wrestlers with Shimmer or somewhere out there, but can they draw like Trish can draw? Did they ever main event RAW or any nationally televised wrestling program? Its all a matter of opnion really, but in my opinion Trish was the total package. just because the wwe would rather hire female wrestlers based on looks does not mean sara del rey or many others aren't good. the reason they aren't on raw isn't because they aren't good wrestlers. if they were given the same opportunities trish stratus was they would look much better. just because they have never been in the wwe does not mean they aren't as good. don't forget you have to factor in that trish had a ton more practice on the mic then much of the shimmer women who spend most of their time doing in ring work. if wwe cared about actual women's wrestling and hired say cheerleader melissa, she could be just as big a draw. i don't think i can say trish is better just because she was given better opportunities based on looks. i also think trish would have to be way better on the mic for her mic skills to make up for how bad the other girls have her beat in ring work. again i love trish. great worker. i just don't think she is in the top 10 of all time.
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fes1
Unicron
Posts: 3,020
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Post by fes1 on Nov 28, 2007 18:46:04 GMT -5
Kelly looked like the "Farmers Daughter" from the old "GLOW" TV shows. I would have marked if her opponent would have been Ivory in her "Tina Ferrari" gimmick
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