Kelly Kelly's botch

[Mecca]

I'm sorry but in this country no one gives a shit about womens wrestling on a national level. No matter how you sell it serious or not serious, people go piss or get something to drink during the womens matches. Not to mention if the woman isn't attractive and fit into a certain mold a good percentage of the male audience will consider her shit and want her fired right away...I don't care if the WWE really did push it as "women's wrestling is serious business" the majority of the WWE's fans would react to it exactly the same.....which is with a "who gives a shit about this match?"

Also.....

Kelly Kelly was said to be devastated backstage after her match with Layla on ECW Tuesday night. She spent a lot of time training and practicing her handspring elbow with Layla and hit it numerous times before the show, but botched it in front of the live crowd. She won a lot of respect backstage for taking it so seriously.

-- PWInsider

[poi zen rana]

i disagree. i think vince could make tons off of women's wrestling and make it VERY popular, if he chose to hire talented women. just because he doesn't try doesn't mean women can't draw.q

[Lenny: Smooth like Keith Stone]

Although I agree that women's wrestling on the whole is not something a mainstream audience would support or care about, I do not believe that no WWE fans care at all about the women in the ring. They may not nowadays because so many of the divas are bland and uninteresting, but years ago WWE had women that the fans did care about. Women like Trish and Lita absolutely connected with the fans, and they did draw money.

[mrjl]

loki said:

Trish is the 2nd best woman wrestler ever?

That's probably the worst case of buying into WWE's hype for a worker...

Sherri Martel, Chyna and Lita were head and shoulders better than Trish, under every possible aspect.

Molly Holly and Victoria were better.

Not to mention Japanese wrestlers, I'll name the Jumping Bomb Angles just for the sake of it (and because they worked with WWF for a while).

Trish is regarded as "one of the best" because she managed to keep her job through a horrible time for women's wrestling, so she got a push by seniority alone... Then the Hypemachine did the rest of the job. And a pretty good job I have to say.

About Kelly... why not teaching her how to perform a good elbow drop/shot before going for RVD-like stuff?

Chyna doesn't count because she was more a wrestler than a woman wrestler. Lita is knocked out of contention by the fact she was far more likely to botch moves than Trish.

[mrjl]

plushtar said:

Trish's legacy was that she was eye candy that became a world champion. Only a few people will see her as one who actually took time to develop her skills in her short time in the business.

On that note, there were/are worse wrestlers; since we are on the subject of women, I would like to mention Torrie Wilson. Her only moves involve the big boob avalanche and the stinkface.

Torrie does several nice neckbreakers and the DDT. While managing Tajiri way back when she did his handspring elbow.

[salsashark]

mrjl said:

loki said:

Trish is the 2nd best woman wrestler ever?

That's probably the worst case of buying into WWE's hype for a worker...

Sherri Martel, Chyna and Lita were head and shoulders better than Trish, under every possible aspect.

Molly Holly and Victoria were better.

Not to mention Japanese wrestlers, I'll name the Jumping Bomb Angles just for the sake of it (and because they worked with WWF for a while).

Trish is regarded as "one of the best" because she managed to keep her job through a horrible time for women's wrestling, so she got a push by seniority alone... Then the Hypemachine did the rest of the job. And a pretty good job I have to say.

About Kelly... why not teaching her how to perform a good elbow drop/shot before going for RVD-like stuff?

Chyna doesn't count because she was more a wrestler than a woman wrestler. Lita is knocked out of contention by the fact she was far more likely to botch moves than Trish.

What the f***? What does, "Chyna doesn't count because she was more a wrestler than a woman wrestler" mean? She's a woman and a wrestler, thus a WOMAN WRESTLER.

Lita being more likely to botch moves than Trish is some kind of attempt to understand her ability to do more and be better than Trish to begin with.

[a1TheEnigma1a]

All credit to her for trying something like that when she knows she is seen as not exactly the greatest women's wrestler.

[Mark4HBK]

ntb said:

iamthegamewjwf said:

By the way, did she or did she not get a boob job? I cant decide.

Well, that pretty much settles that...

[Mozenrath]

drtompki said:

krazysane said:

I really beileve if she goes away an trains for a few months, comes back on raw or something she could really be a good wrestler. I think she has what it takes if she takes the time to learn the craft. And I really mean this.

I agree, though I have higher hopes for Layla than I do for Kelly.

Layla seems to be a natural of sorts, though she seems to have the greatest strength an inexperienced wrestler can have: knowing her limits.

[Mark4HBK]

mecca said:

I'm sorry but in this country no one gives a crap about womens wrestling on a national level. No matter how you sell it serious or not serious, people go piss or get something to drink during the womens matches. Not to mention if the woman isn't attractive and fit into a certain mold a good percentage of the male audience will consider her crap and want her fired right away...I don't care if the WWE really did push it as "women's wrestling is serious business" the majority of the WWE's fans would react to it exactly the same.....which is with a "who gives a crap about this match?"

Perhaps now, but back when I first got into wrestling (shortly after the earth cooled... ), Hulk Hogan was the #1 draw in the WWF ... and Wendi Richter was #2. Ironically, it was the attitude she developed upon learning this that led to her downfall.

So women's wrestling can draw - but IMHO it has to be promoted as "women's wrestling" and not T&A. And that means hiring exceptional female wrestlers (read: Nora Greenwald).

[Mecca]

lenny said:

Although I agree that women's wrestling on the whole is not something a mainstream audience would support or care about, I do not believe that no WWE fans care at all about the women in the ring. They may not nowadays because so many of the divas are bland and uninteresting, but years ago WWE had women that the fans did care about. Women like Trish and Lita absolutely connected with the fans, and they did draw money.

A woman can draw and make money, that I agree with. But they won't draw by the fact that they are good wrestlers...they draw based on looks and the way they are pushed.

Kelly Kelly may be a god awful wrestler but they have a better chance with her because she is more likable than most of the other women they have...

[Loki]

mark4hbk said:

mecca said:

I'm sorry but in this country no one gives a crap about womens wrestling on a national level. No matter how you sell it serious or not serious, people go piss or get something to drink during the womens matches. Not to mention if the woman isn't attractive and fit into a certain mold a good percentage of the male audience will consider her crap and want her fired right away...I don't care if the WWE really did push it as "women's wrestling is serious business" the majority of the WWE's fans would react to it exactly the same.....which is with a "who gives a crap about this match?"

Perhaps now, but back when I first got into wrestling (shortly after the earth cooled... ), Hulk Hogan was the #1 draw in the WWF ... and Wendi Richter was #2. Ironically, it was the attitude she developed upon learning this that led to her downfall.

So women's wrestling can draw - but IMHO it has to be promoted as "women's wrestling" and not T&A. And that means hiring exceptional female wrestlers (read: Nora Greenwald).

Women's wrestling COULD be a decent draw (midcard level) if based on good women wrestlers and on good storylines.

Having two dime-a-hundred bikini models arguing over Playboy's centerfold or catfighting because "you bitch! you flirted with my boyfriend" isn't gonna work.
Adding awful in ring action to awful angles isn't gonna help either.

I'm not saying having 6-8 talented women in the roster will sell PPVs alone, but it'd definitely become another appealing part of the program.

[Hiroshi Hase]

mark4hbk said:

mecca said:

I'm sorry but in this country no one gives a crap about womens wrestling on a national level. No matter how you sell it serious or not serious, people go piss or get something to drink during the womens matches. Not to mention if the woman isn't attractive and fit into a certain mold a good percentage of the male audience will consider her crap and want her fired right away...I don't care if the WWE really did push it as "women's wrestling is serious business" the majority of the WWE's fans would react to it exactly the same.....which is with a "who gives a crap about this match?"

Perhaps now, but back when I first got into wrestling (shortly after the earth cooled... ), Hulk Hogan was the #1 draw in the WWF ... and Wendi Richter was #2. Ironically, it was the attitude she developed upon learning this that led to her downfall.

So women's wrestling can draw - but IMHO it has to be promoted as "women's wrestling" and not T&A. And that means hiring exceptional female wrestlers (read: Nora Greenwald).

In those days, I think it was the association with Hogan/Richter/Lauper that drew in her case as I don't recall Richter ever headlining any shows, but that's just my take on it.

If you were to try and build up a legit women's division, I don't think the fans would care too much. It would get Conway Popped unless they showed some boob or had some lesbian tendencies, otherwise people don't care about workrate and such. I think that's what Shimmer is there for.

[Slim Loves Lily]

7 pages and no gif?!

SHAME, SHAME, DOUBLE SHAME!!!!

[The Heff]

I just burst out laughing in the computer room in Uni!

[Lenny: Smooth like Keith Stone]

mecca said:

lenny said:

Although I agree that women's wrestling on the whole is not something a mainstream audience would support or care about, I do not believe that no WWE fans care at all about the women in the ring. They may not nowadays because so many of the divas are bland and uninteresting, but years ago WWE had women that the fans did care about. Women like Trish and Lita absolutely connected with the fans, and they did draw money.

A woman can draw and make money, that I agree with. But they won't draw by the fact that they are good wrestlers...they draw based on looks and the way they are pushed.

That is true, but it's not because they are women. What you wrote also fits John Cena pretty well. Cena's not over because he is a good wrestler, he is over because he has a marketable look and he connects with the fans. I think the main reason Lita and Trish got over was because of their looks and their personality.

In other words I don't think it's a male/female thing, I just think it's a WWE thing.