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Post by saggyboyflair on Nov 30, 2007 15:57:36 GMT -5
Shawn wouldnt drop the belt to Bret at WM 13 like he was supposedly supposed to return the favor until he came up with the "bogus knee injury." in which was a supposed career ending injury but Shawn returned in 3 months. Shawn was being unprofessional about that. SO in return was Bret being so unprofessional that he wouldnt drop the belt back to shawn, since shawn would do that favor to him after bret did the favor for shawn at WM 12?
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The In-Crowd
ALF
Should've Known Better
In life there are winners..... and losers......... BE JEALOUS
Posts: 1,213
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Post by The In-Crowd on Nov 30, 2007 15:58:20 GMT -5
Shawn wouldnt drop the belt to Bret at WM 13 like he was supposedly supposed to return the favor until he came up with the "bogus knee injury." in which was a supposed career ending injury but Shawn returned in 3 months. Shawn was being unprofessional about that. SO in return was Bret being so unprofessional that he wouldnt drop the belt back to shawn, since shawn would do that favor to him after bret did the favor for shawn at WM 12? HUGE difference
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Nov 30, 2007 16:02:27 GMT -5
Bret was ACTUALLY leaving WWE, that's the difference.
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Post by Harvey on Nov 30, 2007 16:05:06 GMT -5
Bret is actually a better father than Hulk Hogan. I'll give him that much. Other than that, I'll never understand his appeal.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2007 16:09:53 GMT -5
Principles or not, past history or not, if you are going to leave a company for a huge seven figure contract, why should you care if you have to drop the belt to a guy you don't like?
What was Bret's plan, what did he want to do? To leave on Raw, drop the belt... to NO ONE. He would've helped no one. He would've basically said,"Hey guys, I won my last match here. Thanks for all the great times we had. I'm leaving on top, unbeaten, to another company, our company's biggest rival, for more money and I'm not helping anyone else." Why couldn't he have dropped the title in Calgary, if he was the damn heel? Heels lose. Period. That jsut reeks of selfishness.
He could've dropped the belt, do the job, and, guess what, move on to a crap load of money in WCW, where he had a ready made direction, where he could've been the super over mega babyface he wanted to be: "I left the WWE because everyone was against me and now I'm here in WCW, ready to make a fresh start."
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JMA
Hank Scorpio
Down With Capitalism!
Posts: 6,880
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Post by JMA on Nov 30, 2007 16:30:10 GMT -5
They were both equally jackasses No two people are exact equals in anything, and certainly not Bret and Shawn. Besides the fact that they were great wrestlers and had a thing for cartoon hearts on their tights, they were as different as night and day. Bret was from the school of trying to make a company look good while still looking good himself. Shawn, on the other hand, wanted to protect his spot at all costs and to remove real and perceived threats to it.
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
Posts: 15,620
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Post by AriadosMan on Nov 30, 2007 16:32:52 GMT -5
I wish they'd both drop it and move on. The eternal pissing contest between them over who was right and who wrong hasn't achieved anything.
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Post by nerdinitupagain on Nov 30, 2007 17:22:26 GMT -5
I'm really confused about when people side with McMahon on this one. It seems people are more annoyed with post-Screwjob whining Bret than they are the actual facts of what happened.
Contract 1) Bret Hart had a huge 20 year contract with Vince that was Vince's way of countering the previous offer WCW had made to Bret which was higher money but no long term security. 2) Vince started realizing he was not going to be able to pay the full amount that he was contractually obligated to pay and he then allowed Bret to neogiate with WCW. Does Bret want to go to WCW? No, however he's told first hand he won't get the money he's supposed to and that the contract Vince gave him to stay is now broken by that fact. If you want to ever scream unprofessional, not being able to pay somebody what you owe them is unprofessional. Bret signs with WCW thus freeing the monetary weight that he put on Vince's payroll. Bret's leaving was Vince's doing. 3) Complete creative control in the last 30 days to guarantee that Bret goes out looking strong and not jobbed out which came from neogiations to release Bret from his contract that McMahon could not pay. It was a concession that Vince made.
There was promises made to Bret. Bret's only promise was that he would drop the belt. Vince may have wanted him to drop it to Shawn, but he did make an agreement with Bret that allowed Bret to have that power to make the decision. There was a huge personal dislike between Bret and Shawn, so why would Bret, with the full right not to do so... want to give the huge rub to someone he didn't like?
What Vince realized is that he screwed himself over in the way he handled the situation with creative control. The only way for Vince to get the way he wanted was to seriously go out like a kid in a check out lane kicking and screaming. He broke legal contracts, he broke his word, and he did in what his industry was concerned one of the hugest no-no's you could do. Break kayfabe (remember, it still existed at that time).
However, this is my viewpoint on this situation if Bret wasn't in on it. I'm still convinced that there are two reasons we did not get Vince vs. Bret after his WCW contract expired. Owen's death and the concussion. Otherwise, Bret would've probably returned for the culmination to the screwjob.
But if I'm wrong.. I still can't see what was unprofessional about what Bret did. He didn't want to drop the title to Shawn Michaels, when he had every right not to legally speaking and Vince knew that. Vince gave him the promise he could go out the way he wanted.. and went back on his word after not being able to fulfill his promise of contractual pay.
If someone can clear up for me why they think that Bret should've dropped the title when the promise from Vince was "You have the ability to go out the way you want"... I would really appreciate it because I just always here "He should have dropped the belt. It was unprofessional" without any explanation of WHY.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Nov 30, 2007 17:26:43 GMT -5
I wish they'd both drop it and move on. The eternal pissing contest between them over who was right and who wrong hasn't achieved anything.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2007 17:35:22 GMT -5
this is just sad... it was over 10 years ago and people just cannot seem to live it down... both wrestlers have and have both moved on. its us fans who cannot live on... saying that Bret Hart is still whining after he forgave Michaels/Mcmahon is simply absurd... honestly why must we have one of these threads every month?
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Nov 30, 2007 17:38:15 GMT -5
At the end of the day, Bret can only complain so much. I remember Bad News Brown/ Allen saying that he hated that Bret whines so much about being "screwed" when countless other guys never had a belt to get screwed out of in the first place. Plus, the amount of money he made in WCW for the amount of actual work he did is absolutely obscene. Maybe, but with Bret it wasn't about the money as I think he wanted to end his career there in WWE.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Nov 30, 2007 17:39:02 GMT -5
this is just sad... it was over 10 years ago and people just cannot seem to live it down... both wrestlers have and have both moved on. its us fans who cannot live on... saying that Bret Hart is still whining after he forgave Michaels/Mcmahon is simply absurd... honestly why must we have one of these threads every week? Fixed for accuracy.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Nov 30, 2007 17:39:06 GMT -5
So Bret Hart whines so much that he had to sign up to these forums and start up this topic for the tenth time this month?
Nay - it was you guys with the opinions that don't let it die.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 30, 2007 18:02:28 GMT -5
So Bret Hart whines so much that he had to sign up to these forums and start up this topic for the tenth time this month? Nay - it was you guys with the opinions that don't let it die. Exactly. It's us, it's the "journalists" who can never think to ask Bret about anything else, etc. etc. Bret himself seems to rarely, if ever, bring it up on his own. If he's asked, he gives an answer. Apparently, that's the equivalent of "whining". Bret doesn't like Shawn Michaels; he doesn't like him now, didn't like him then, won't like him in the future. Deal with it, people. We all have people we simply can't stand. There's no point in even commenting on the screwjob itself, as we've talked it to death over the years.
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Post by PTBartman on Nov 30, 2007 18:05:59 GMT -5
I look toward a day when I don't have to hear about the screwjob or a day when Bret isn't whining. Agreed. At this point, it doesn't matter who was right or wrong. I just just don't give an f'e. Edited as so not to tick off the panda.
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Agent P
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Wooo
Posts: 18,180
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Post by Agent P on Nov 30, 2007 18:07:47 GMT -5
So Bret Hart whines so much that he had to sign up to these forums and start up this topic for the tenth time this month? Nay - it was you guys with the opinions that don't let it die. I can assure you I am not Bret Hart. I was mearly posting the interview.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Nov 30, 2007 18:17:02 GMT -5
So Bret Hart whines so much that he had to sign up to these forums and start up this topic for the tenth time this month? Nay - it was you guys with the opinions that don't let it die. Exactly. It's us, it's the "journalists" who can never think to ask Bret about anything else, etc. etc. Bret himself seems to rarely, if ever, bring it up on his own. If he's asked, he gives an answer. Apparently, that's the equivalent of "whining". Bret doesn't like Shawn Michaels; he doesn't like him now, didn't like him then, won't like him in the future. Deal with it, people. We all have people we simply can't stand. There's no point in even commenting on the screwjob itself, as we've talked it to death over the years. That's right. Just this past summer, we all saw what a wonderful representitive Bret is of the business, with the Benoit killings. But no-one will ever mention that.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Nov 30, 2007 18:20:17 GMT -5
So Bret Hart whines so much that he had to sign up to these forums and start up this topic for the tenth time this month? Nay - it was you guys with the opinions that don't let it die. I can assure you I am not Bret Hart. I was mearly posting the interview. My point being, Bret Hart didn't force anyone to discuss this topic, and he rarely does so himself.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Nov 30, 2007 18:48:33 GMT -5
But if I'm wrong.. I still can't see what was unprofessional about what Bret did. He didn't want to drop the title to Shawn Michaels, when he had every right not to legally speaking and Vince knew that. Vince gave him the promise he could go out the way he wanted.. and went back on his word after not being able to fulfill his promise of contractual pay. If someone can clear up for me why they think that Bret should've dropped the title when the promise from Vince was "You have the ability to go out the way you want"... I would really appreciate it because I just always here "He should have dropped the belt. It was unprofessional" without any explanation of WHY. So he was professional legally speaking, but unproffesional ethically. This is what I've been saying. People often Criticise Hogan and the nWo, and even Bret Hart in WCW for not putting people over. But for this instance they don't jump on Bret for doing the same things that Hogan did. I don't even care about that part. Without the screwjob WWF wouldn't what it became.
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Post by machinegun on Nov 30, 2007 18:56:59 GMT -5
The first 30 seconds are unintentionally hilarious if you were to have no idea what they are talking about. BUTTSECKS?
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