schma
Hank Scorpio
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Post by schma on May 5, 2024 10:32:44 GMT -5
Do people also dislike crowds singing the 'Hey Bayley' song all throughout her matches? Or the chants of "Let's go Cena" we had for years? I don't see why the French fans singing the song towards AJ Styles was so bad. It's perfectly normal for crowds to sing songs in support. I think it was the frequency. The Bayley thing is usually only a couple of times a match. With AJ it seemed like anytime he got any offence in they started singing it. I think also if it had been the opener where people were still fresh with the crowd they might have enjoyed it more. That said, the song very much felt like it was taking the piss with AJ whereas the Hey Bayley thing is more of a lets have fun cheering the face in a unique way. That's how I'm seeing it anyway. I didn't mind the song the first couple of times, but like simplement deux, it wore out its welcome. I think that was the main issue. I enjoyed the crowd to a point, but they drove everything into the ground eventually it felt like. It got to the point where rather than making things much better like they had on Smackdown, they were starting to actually distract from the show.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
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Post by schma on May 5, 2024 7:23:29 GMT -5
I noticed last night that Kairi had her knee heavily strapped… Any word on when she might’ve hurt herself? Not to forget that Asuka’s been working hurt since before WM when she tweaked her own knee a couple of weeks out. No, but they've been working every house show for awhile now, so I wouldn't be shocked if Kairi's injury happened at one of those. They just need to pull the Kabukis off the house show circuit for a bit so they can heal up. If not pull them off of TV entirely for a bit. Because I would have to check, but I think the Kabukis have worked the most house shows so far this year, at least among the women. Pretty sure I saw a recent interview where they were two of the top three for matches worked this year or possibly last year.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
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Post by schma on May 5, 2024 7:21:35 GMT -5
So, I know kickouts have been standard fare for many many years. There are plenty of examples of finisher fests, it's nothing new. However, the France crowd going "Simplement Deux!" then *clap clap clap clap* "Simplement Deux" every time one happened really drove home just how many there were. I went from loving the crowd on Smackdown to wanting them to shut up by the second or third match of Backlash. Well not shut up, but maybe dial it back a notch.
Either way, it really feels that much like a superkick which is treated as being on the level of a punch these days, we see pin attempts so often that they don't feel climactic in any way. We know it's not gonna be a 3 if everyone hasn't gotten their spots in. Should they dial back on the pin attempts? Should they do even more pin attempts? I'm not necessarily talking about roll up attempts. Those have their place. Perhaps some matches should have few kickouts, while the really big important ones get more? I'm too lazy to go back and count but I would be surprised if any of the Backlash matches had fewer than 10 pin attempts.
Many years ago when I was a child it was rare someone went for a pin attempt and rarer still to see a kickout. I don't think we necessarily need to go back to that, but perhaps find an appropriate middle ground?
False finishes are more frequent now, but I don’t really remember a time where it was rare for pin attempts and kickouts to happen in a match. Heck, Steamboat-Savage had 22 two-counts. It could well be that I'm remembering badly from childhood. I'm not sure if I saw that one even though I know it's considered one of the best matches ever. It more feels like when I was a kid, if someone went for the 3 count that was it. However, it could just be me mostly remembering the Hogan legdrop. During Hulkamania few kicked out from that. I fully acknowledge that I may not be a reliable narrator in this case.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
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Post by schma on May 5, 2024 3:20:02 GMT -5
Naomi is suffering from what Natalya went through when the four horsewomen came up. Natalya stood out in the divas era because she was a fully trained wrestler. As more and more women wrestlers with great skills came up, she became an also ran. She simply didn't stand out any more. Naomi stood out for a long time because she is so damn athletic. Now though, the athleticism of many of the women has jumped up several notches and Naomi doesn't stand out as much any more. Also, Naomi is still using her butt for offence way too much for 2024. Leave that shit in the divas era. The rear view was a terrible move even then. What cracked me up was when she did her (inferior) version of the Heatseeker she shook her ass first, and I thought "when MJF comes back and he does that move again, he should shake his ass first for the camera". That moment made me think "the rear view is terrible enough, but this? Come on now!"
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schma
Hank Scorpio
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Post by schma on May 5, 2024 3:18:43 GMT -5
I've noticed them pushing him up the card lately, in the world heavyweight title mix and all but I don't know. Remember this is a guy who had to win a match so the worst faction in WWE history would leave him alone. That said, he is the Pee champion now and there are others that I had written off in the past who managed to shake the terrible off and experience a resurgence. My guess is no, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
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Post by schma on May 5, 2024 3:15:05 GMT -5
Burial of AJ?? Absolutely not. I was surprised that he won with one Cross Rhodes, and the crowd I'm guessing also expected a kick out as well, but I'm glad it only took one finisher to win. Every big match having a finisher spam is getting to the point that when there's not one people ask if it's a burial. That's how much we need to dial it back. Also sign me up for the team that wants the Cody Cutter to be his finisher. It's like Bayley's top rope elbow drop in that it's a move that I really wish was their actual finisher. Then again Cross Rhodes is fine, but the Rose Plant is awful. Sami's Blue Thunder Bomb should be his finisher. It's a thing of beauty and looks devastating.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
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Post by schma on May 5, 2024 3:13:20 GMT -5
This is a different debate from the usual one about finisher kickouts. Probably because there isn’t usually this much attention drawn to them by the live crowds. Yeah, I was thinking somewhat of that debate but just in general it feels like there are more kickout attempts than ever. However, I think a big part was the crowd highlighting it.
However, we saw great subversion of the finisher kickouts tonight with Cody/AJ where rather than kicking out of the finishers, they often prevented them, like they had scouted them and had counters. As such, many of their kickouts were not the moves you'd expect. It wasn't huge but it was nice so see some variation.
The crowd highlighting the finishers though was definitely what put me over the top on creating a discussion about it.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
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Post by schma on May 5, 2024 2:59:21 GMT -5
Yeah, there are matches where the kickouts are used to great effect, especially when you see the frustration on the wrestlers faces and they play up that they thought that was it. I guess tonight it felt like a lot of the pin attempts were just there because reasons before moving on to the next segment of moves.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
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Post by schma on May 5, 2024 2:56:21 GMT -5
Naomi is suffering from what Natalya went through when the four horsewomen came up. Natalya stood out in the divas era because she was a fully trained wrestler. As more and more women wrestlers with great skills came up, she became an also ran. She simply didn't stand out any more. Naomi stood out for a long time because she is so damn athletic. Now though, the athleticism of many of the women has jumped up several notches and Naomi doesn't stand out as much any more. Also, Naomi is still using her butt for offence way too much for 2024. Leave that shit in the divas era. The rear view was a terrible move even then.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
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Post by schma on May 5, 2024 2:51:45 GMT -5
I feel like the triple Cross Rhodes is basically Cody's burning hammer. He's given it everything and nothing has done the job so now you're getting 3 of his finishers because dammit he's putting you down one way or another.
Edited to add the fact that both he and AJ countered a lot of each other's finishers. It really played up how well they had scouted each other.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,804
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Post by schma on May 5, 2024 2:48:42 GMT -5
So, I know kickouts have been standard fare for many many years. There are plenty of examples of finisher fests, it's nothing new. However, the France crowd going "Simplement Deux!" then *clap clap clap clap* "Simplement Deux" every time one happened really drove home just how many there were. I went from loving the crowd on Smackdown to wanting them to shut up by the second or third match of Backlash. Well not shut up, but maybe dial it back a notch.
Either way, it really feels that much like a superkick which is treated as being on the level of a punch these days, we see pin attempts so often that they don't feel climactic in any way. We know it's not gonna be a 3 if everyone hasn't gotten their spots in. Should they dial back on the pin attempts? Should they do even more pin attempts? I'm not necessarily talking about roll up attempts. Those have their place. Perhaps some matches should have few kickouts, while the really big important ones get more? I'm too lazy to go back and count but I would be surprised if any of the Backlash matches had fewer than 10 pin attempts.
Many years ago when I was a child it was rare someone went for a pin attempt and rarer still to see a kickout. I don't think we necessarily need to go back to that, but perhaps find an appropriate middle ground?
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schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,804
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Post by schma on May 5, 2024 2:37:34 GMT -5
I was digging the France crowd until about the 30th "Simplement Deux! Simplement deux *clap clap clap clap* Simplement deux. Given the 50th kickout was in the 3rd match I wore out on pretty early. It was great fun on Smackdown but too much here. Still mostly positive about them, but they wore out their welcome some.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,804
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Post by schma on May 5, 2024 2:14:00 GMT -5
Hopefully these guys do something interesting, but I have zero desire for Roman to come back and immediately be face just because. Dude was a bastard of a heel for so long, Honkytonkmanning his way through the roster. People complain about someone like Bayley not earning her face turn but Roman coming back face would be way up there for undeserved face turns. I also don't want Jey or Sami anywhere near him. He gaslighted them for years and I really hope he tries to make it right with them only for them to tell him to kick rocks. Jimmmy can go back to Roman though because no one really cares about that bitch.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
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Post by schma on May 5, 2024 2:11:24 GMT -5
Breaking News: There were TWO people under the ring and they chose Tanga to come under. Jacob was down there too. The Boogeyman joining The Bloodline CONFIRMED!!! Nah, clearly it was Hornswoggle.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
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Post by schma on May 5, 2024 2:04:28 GMT -5
I gave it a 7.
I was wondering how Tonga/Solo had any chance against Randy/KO. I can't believe that I forgot that there is always a new bloodline member. As soon as he showed up, I had no idea who he was, but it was kinda just 'oh right, this story. The more things change, the more they stay the same'. I'm not sure why Paul is suddenly concerned about the welfare of opponents, particularly Kevin when you consider that Roman went so hard on Kevin it turned Sami face and Paul was fine with that.
The triple threat had moments but it felt like more of a one on one most times with someone lying on the outside.
Priest vs Jey had good moments but I'd like to see a bit more variation in Jey's offence. Also, it must be karma for Jey interfering in all those matches when he was part of the bloodline. Now he can't get through a single title match without someone interfering. Hard to feel bad about it though considering he spent 2 years doing it to others.
The Damage CTRL vs the super heroes was better than I expected. I was pretty much expecting a glorified squash, but this is probably the most competitive I've seen any variation of Damage Ctrl against Bianca. They even laid Jade out more than once. I'm glad Bianca is finally done with Damage Ctrl but this was one of those cases where someone actually looks good in defeat.
I enjoyed the bits of Cody/AJ that I saw. I was nodding off a bit during the match (due to a lack of sleep, not because of the match). I was a bit surprised to see Cody hulk up after a burning hammer only to get knocked down right away again.
On Smackdown I absolutely loved the crowd. Tonight, they were a bit much in parts. I love that they were having a great time but there were a few instances where I wanted them to just shut up for a minute.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
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Post by schma on May 5, 2024 1:53:12 GMT -5
Well, I accidentally got spoiled on the ending of the match before I had a chance to watch it (though let's be honest, it wasn't really a spoiler). That said, I was surprised at how long the match was and the fact that Kairi and Asuka did get some genuine offence in on not just Bianca, but also Jade. It's a shame things got confused in the middle, but I thought that Damage Ctrl looked better in defeat here than they typically do when going up against Bianca.
Either way:
Well I had an image of Frodo saying it's over, it's done but that image has disappeared.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
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Post by schma on May 4, 2024 7:21:04 GMT -5
Sting. He's the most gullible bastard in wrestling forever. f***ing idiot thought he could trust the Horsemen. Worse, didn't he trust them multiple times?
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schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,804
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Post by schma on May 4, 2024 2:54:21 GMT -5
I wonder what the over/under is on this group's first appearance going about as well as the New Day's first appearance. I'm having a hard time seeing it get over with the lineups suggested.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,804
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Post by schma on May 4, 2024 2:52:48 GMT -5
Alternately, they could make it a "Falls count anywhere...inside this ring". That would make it easier since they wouldn't have to travel around the arena.
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schma
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,804
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Post by schma on May 4, 2024 2:51:51 GMT -5
Didn't Bayley turn on Sasha a couple of times?
Becky before her heel run would have made more sense.
At the end of the day though, the answer is Sting. It's always Sting.
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