|
Post by Drillbit Taylor on Jan 27, 2008 23:51:26 GMT -5
I used to have a Confederate battle flag in my room, but that was mainly because I'm a Civil War buff. I have no problem with the flag itself. Obviously I have a problem with the Klan and other hate groups that have used it as a symbol. I do have a question for those in the south who still talk of the flag as a regional symbol, or something to remind them of regional history. As a midwestener this has always struck me funny. No one in this region speaks of holding on the symbols of midwesteren pride or midwestern history. It simply doesn't exist in the large scale that it does in the south. I know that the members of the former confederacy wanted to hold to their heritage after the horrors of the war, but after 142 years isn't it time to let it go? Why should they let their heritage and history die?
|
|
|
Post by samachine on Jan 27, 2008 23:52:47 GMT -5
I live i the South, I just see it as a sign of pride of living in the South, I don't find it as offensive as people calling Southerners incest-ers.
|
|
|
Post by Throwback on Jan 28, 2008 0:12:20 GMT -5
It pretty much does just mean rebellion. As is almost perfectly embodied within "The Dukes of Hazard". In the new movie a bunch of black guys circle the car and almost beat them senseless because it's painted on the roof.
|
|
|
Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Jan 28, 2008 0:16:41 GMT -5
It pretty much does just mean rebellion. As is almost perfectly embodied within "The Dukes of Hazard". In the new movie a bunch of black guys circle the car and almost beat them senseless because it's painted on the roof. lol. Well, I more or less meant the original Dukes. Not the crappy movie or the crappy direct to DVD movie. When it was the Dukes rebelling against that fat SOB Boss Hog.
|
|
|
Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Jan 28, 2008 0:23:34 GMT -5
I'm not sure if this was brought up yet, but the Confederate flag we're always fighting about isn't even the real Confederate flag. It's the battle flag of the Confederate army. Here's the real thing: I don't have much use for the Confederate flag, but I'm also a Northerner, so I won't pretend to understand everything about it. That said, to me, its a symbol of a loose confederacy of states that failed to become a country, and who fought for an ideal that isn't really viable in today's world or American society. In short: it's obsolete. That would be the 1st flag. They changed it in 63 to this Ah, the St. Andrew Cross flag. Called so, because St. Andrew was martyred by being crucified on a X-shaped cross, and St. Andrew was a well known saint amongst the people of Ireland and Scotland. Luck would have it, the majority of the white population in the South during the War was of Scottish, Irish, or Scot-Irish descent, so they all knew the tale of St. Andrew, and to honor their heritage, used his cross on their flag.
|
|
|
Post by Drillbit Taylor on Jan 28, 2008 0:24:37 GMT -5
That would be the 1st flag. They changed it in 63 to this Ah, the St. Andrew Cross flag. Called so, because St. Andrew was martyred by being crucified on a X-shaped cross, and St. Andrew was a well known saint amongst the people of Ireland and Scotland. Luck would have it, the majority of the white population in the South during the War was of Scottish, Irish, or Scot-Irish descent, so they all knew the tale of St. Andrew, and to honor their heritage, used his cross on their flag. Good man.. You get a cookie for that. Few people talk about that.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Pigwell on Jan 28, 2008 0:24:55 GMT -5
In the new movie a bunch of black guys circle the car and almost beat them senseless because it's painted on the roof. lol. Well, I more or less meant the original Dukes. Not the crappy movie or the crappy direct to DVD movie. When it was the Dukes rebelling against that fat SOB Boss Hog. That crappy direct to DVD movie was quite good especially compared to the crappy movie.
|
|
|
Post by Milkman Norm on Jan 28, 2008 0:25:23 GMT -5
I used to have a Confederate battle flag in my room, but that was mainly because I'm a Civil War buff. I have no problem with the flag itself. Obviously I have a problem with the Klan and other hate groups that have used it as a symbol. I do have a question for those in the south who still talk of the flag as a regional symbol, or something to remind them of regional history. As a midwestener this has always struck me funny. No one in this region speaks of holding on the symbols of midwesteren pride or midwestern history. It simply doesn't exist in the large scale that it does in the south. I know that the members of the former confederacy wanted to hold to their heritage after the horrors of the war, but after 142 years isn't it time to let it go? Why should they let their heritage and history die? I'm not saying that they should or shouldn't. I'm just saying that I find it a bit odd that the south/southeners have felt the way to hold to a regional symbol in a way that other regions of the country have not. As I said in my first post the midwest has a rich history of it own, but we were never taught that we should maintain an identity seperate from the rest of the United States. Again i'm sure that a lage part of the southern need to retain regional symbols in the postwar era, but as I've said it's been 142 year since it ended. So I don't fully understand why there still seems to be a need to maintain a seperate southern regional culture
|
|
|
Post by Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action on Jan 28, 2008 0:26:00 GMT -5
lol. Well, I more or less meant the original Dukes. Not the crappy movie or the crappy direct to DVD movie. When it was the Dukes rebelling against that fat SOB Boss Hog. That crappy direct to DVD movie was quite good especially compared to the crappy movie. Okay, to be fair I never saw the DTD one, just the first one.
|
|
|
Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Jan 28, 2008 0:29:57 GMT -5
Ah, the St. Andrew Cross flag. Called so, because St. Andrew was martyred by being crucified on a X-shaped cross, and St. Andrew was a well known saint amongst the people of Ireland and Scotland. Luck would have it, the majority of the white population in the South during the War was of Scottish, Irish, or Scot-Irish descent, so they all knew the tale of St. Andrew, and to honor their heritage, used his cross on their flag. Good man.. You get a cookie for that. Few people talk about that. Well, I'm a Scot-Irish(amongst MANY other heritages, including Chinese, several Native American tribes, French, Italian, and German) and was raised a Christian, so I knew of St. Andrew since I was a wee little lad. And then I became a history buff, in particular, a military/war history buff, and even more specific, American military/war history. And so, in my history geekness, found this tidbit one day.
|
|
|
Post by Drillbit Taylor on Jan 28, 2008 0:30:16 GMT -5
Why should they let their heritage and history die? I'm not saying that they should or shouldn't. I'm just saying that I find it a bit odd that the south/southeners have felt the way to hold to a regional symbol in a way that other regions of the country have not. As I said in my first post the midwest has a rich history of it own, but we were never taught that we should maintain an identity seperate from the rest of the United States. Again i'm sure that a lage part of the southern need to retain regional symbols in the postwar era, but as I've said it's been 142 year since it ended. So I don't fully understand why there still seems to be a need to maintain a seperate southern regional culture The same reason that you have to have Texas history all through out your education.(I think Virgina is the same too).The history is rich and deep. I am not saying that the Midwest is not. But the thing is a sense of pride. It is done for the use of pride of where they have been and where they are going. Also it is separate because it is a strong one. I guess you have to live here to fully understand it .
|
|
|
Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on Jan 28, 2008 0:37:55 GMT -5
I'm not saying that they should or shouldn't. I'm just saying that I find it a bit odd that the south/southeners have felt the way to hold to a regional symbol in a way that other regions of the country have not. As I said in my first post the midwest has a rich history of it own, but we were never taught that we should maintain an identity seperate from the rest of the United States. Again i'm sure that a lage part of the southern need to retain regional symbols in the postwar era, but as I've said it's been 142 year since it ended. So I don't fully understand why there still seems to be a need to maintain a seperate southern regional culture The same reason that you have to have Texas history all through out your education.(I think Virgina is the same too).The history is rich and deep. I am not saying that the Midwest is not. But the thing is a sense of pride. It is done for the use of pride of where they have been and where they are going. Also it is separate because it is a strong one. I guess you have to live here to fully understand it . Oklahoma is the same. To pass Freshmen year of high school, hell to graduate high school, in Oklahoma, you have to pass a course on Oklahoma history, which is REALLY rich in great history. Such as...the Civil War in Oklahoma. There was only ONE major battle in Oklahoma, the Battle of Honey Springs, but what many people, even many Civil War buffs, overlook is the importance of the battle. First off, the battle was the ONLY battle in the war where whites were the minority on both sides, as both sides in the battle were majorly made up of African-American and Native American troops. Secondly, the battle(a Union victory) is what, in the end, lead to the success of the Anaconda Plan of the North, as the Confederate supply depot at Honey Springs is what the troops in the surrounding states relied on to defend the Mississippi River, and with the loss of the supplies, the South was screwed. Finally, it was the last battle the South took the North head-on in. Afterwards for the rest of the war, the South used guerrilla warfare and calvary runs.
|
|
|
Post by Milkman Norm on Jan 28, 2008 0:44:44 GMT -5
That's probably the case, maybe I'll start a Wisconsin pride movement. Great picture of General Lee btw.
|
|
|
Post by tinaturner on Jan 28, 2008 0:50:25 GMT -5
Im British, and everywhere has a flag and crest. And you would be hard pushed to find a County that didnt try for political power or dominance. So I would suggest that only folks with very specific motivations dont like it, and folks with very specific motivations use it negitivly.
|
|
|
Post by Drillbit Taylor on Jan 28, 2008 0:52:10 GMT -5
That's probably the case, maybe I'll start a Wisconsin pride movement. Great picture of General Lee btw. Thanks Felt it was right to remember his B-day
|
|
|
Post by Hensley on Jan 28, 2008 1:08:58 GMT -5
Doesn't bother me, only when people take it out of context. Like when a bunch of guys are riding around waving it outside their truck yelling racial slurs...yeah, that's a problem.
|
|
|
Post by Milkman Norm on Jan 28, 2008 1:13:33 GMT -5
That's probably the case, maybe I'll start a Wisconsin pride movement. Great picture of General Lee btw. Thanks Felt it was right to remember his B-day There's a story about Lee signing the treaty that ended the war at Appomattox Court House. As Lee was signing the document with Grant and his staff surronding him, he looked up at one of Grants' general staff who happened to be a native american and commented that he was pleased that a real american was present at this ocasion. The union general replyed, we are all Americans. While this story may not be true it's the kind of thing that I find moving
|
|
livetowin
Dennis Stamp
Just Keep Walkin'
Don't be negatin'!
Posts: 4,430
|
Post by livetowin on Jan 28, 2008 1:19:41 GMT -5
I thought this would be about some gay guy who lives in South Carolina. Not that there's anything wrong with that by any means.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Pigwell on Jan 28, 2008 1:23:26 GMT -5
I thought this would be about some gay guy who lives in South Carolina. Not that there's anything wrong with that by any means. I'm not sure I have any idea what story you're talking about.
|
|
|
Post by The Wraith on Jan 28, 2008 1:26:04 GMT -5
I thought this would be about some gay guy who lives in South Carolina. Not that there's anything wrong with that by any means. I'm not sure I have any idea what story you're talking about. I don't either.... and for whatever reason I thought the title of this thread was "The Cornfederate Flag"
|
|