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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Aug 19, 2008 11:49:53 GMT -5
Bradley Jay, aka Jay Bradley aka Brad Bradley. THAT was Jay Bradley? Weird, I heard good things about him. He looked like s***. I'm very much a fan of JBL Jr. I honestly hope he's used to his potential.
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Post by sunnytaker on Aug 19, 2008 11:51:18 GMT -5
Kurt Angle, you know, that guy that wore the hairpiece for a couple of weeks. Had some kind of medal or plaque thing he carried around all the time. OOOOOOOOH!!! I REMEMBER HIM!!! He was the guy that carried that chocolate coin around on that fancy rope! Remember when Tazz handed him his ass on a silver platter in New York? That's like the only time I remember Kurt Ankle doing anything. i heard he wouldn't give Braden Walker any airtime either...
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Aug 19, 2008 11:56:54 GMT -5
Val Venis didn't really fail with his gimmick. The problem is that WWE isn't allowed to (or won't let him) do the things that got him over in the first place. Well, whatever his name is, WHO IS HE?!?! Bradley Jay, aka Jay Bradley aka Brad Bradley. AKA The Kissing Bandit, AKA Miguel Sanchez, AKA Dr. Nguyen Van Phuoc...
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2008 12:17:13 GMT -5
They aren't really giving people gimmicks, which wrestling needs a healthy dose of if newcomers are going to get over with a large mainstream audience.
"The Rock and Stone Cold got really over by being themselves in exaggerated fashion, we should do this with EVERY new person and hope it works!"
Not everyone needs big gimmicks, but there should be a reasonable amount. The straight faced guys can get over by facing off against the gimmick guys.
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Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
R.I.P. Deadpool
Posts: 43,870
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Post by Krimzon on Aug 19, 2008 12:53:39 GMT -5
I've been waiting for them to do something like they did for Cena when he debuted. Nobody knew who the f*** he was, but they put him against Kurt Angle and he held his own. That helped get him over big time. Not to mention that soon after, he had a PPV match with Chris Jericho.
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Post by corndog on Aug 19, 2008 13:08:28 GMT -5
OK well all these attempts to be sarcastic and smarky are doing nothing but showing you've missed my point. To compare the debut of Rocky Maivia to that of these recent new guys shows complete ignorance. Maivia's debut was the stuff rookies dream about. WWF spent the entire summer introducing him, discussing his heritage, showing him training and working out. He debuted at one of the biggest PPVS of the year in Madison Square Garden with a custom made entrance theme, costume and look. He had his own finisher and actually won the match for this team. He then went onto to a big push and was labelled a "Blue Chipper". Somehow I'd consider that a fantastic build up, a well constructed character, an excellent platform to launch somebody's career. But here's the twist. For all of that build, for all of that hype, for all of that building the "next big thing" that was gonna be Rocky Miavia, he WAS NOT over until he drastically overhauled his character into a heel. The Rocky they promoted got turned on so quickly it made there heads spin. All of that promotion was, theoretically, a complete waste of their time, because all it resulted in was the crowds hating this smiling geek being shoved down their throats. Big hype and promos and all that garbage is great, but it's not necessary to build a successful career. I was just about to say the Rock's debut as Rocky Miavia and the big build up with him and his dad actually fell flat on it's face. The fans really didn't care for him and then ended up hating him AS A FACE! The Rock's career really didn't turn around until he joined the Nation of Domination, became a mega heel and started feuding with Steve Austin for the IC title. Not to mention him holding the IC title over a year and starting to form all of catch phrases as a heel, that ended up catching on and making him a face in late 98. Plus I remember the fans marking out for the people's elbow, even when he was a heel and feuding with HHH.
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Post by soulchild27 on Aug 19, 2008 13:23:04 GMT -5
Now Braden Walker.........THAT is how you DON'T debut someone. I personally, wish everyone could debut with a knock knock joke
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Full Moon
Mephisto
"How ya doin' Dave?"
Posts: 733
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Post by Full Moon on Aug 19, 2008 13:28:36 GMT -5
Well it seems this forum is pretty much 70-30 in favor of these new guys debuting the way they have done. That response is very interesting to me, and somewhat confusing.
I guess throwing a load of random newbies into the mix all within the same three week period, with little to no fanfare or character development is favorable to bring them in one at a time with a solid character and foundation for a push. I'm not saying you guys are wrong...far from it...I'm just enjoying the differences in opinion.
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Post by The Tank on Aug 19, 2008 13:32:29 GMT -5
Well it seems this forum is pretty much 70-30 in favor of these new guys debuting the way they have done. That response is very interesting to me, and somewhat confusing. I guess throwing a load of random newbies into the mix all within the same three week period, with little to no fanfare or character development is favorable to bring them in one at a time with a solid character and foundation for a push. I'm not saying you guys are wrong...far from it...I'm just enjoying the differences in opinion. More guys need gimmicks, I'll say that much. Braden Walker got let go because no one cared about him. He had no gimmick, he was just there. If he had come in as Wildcat Chris Harris, with the handcuffs and a hot asian manager, he would've gotten a reaction. If Ricky Ortiz keeps doin' what he's doin', then he's set. If Evan Bourne keeps doin' what he's doin'...hell, he's already made. If Scotty Goldman keeps Cabana-ing it up, he'll do fine just fine. As for others, (PRIMO COLON) they need something to set them apart. "He's Carlito's brother!" isn't a gimmick. "He's John Cena's brother" would be a gimmick, because of Cena's place on the card. Being the brother to a guy who hasn't been on TV for 6 months don't mean s***.
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Post by Aaron E. Dangerously on Aug 19, 2008 13:33:33 GMT -5
You're correct. I'd also like to add that I wish WWE would take more chances with younger talent. What I mean is, instead of going with the whole "Wrestler debuts and wins squash matches for a million weeks" formula, why can't a new wrestler debut and be put up to midcard or upper-midcard? Maybe even by attacking someone like Cena or something. It's worth the risk, even if they only do it once or twice. You mean like Di'Biase right now? Or like the Spirit Squad VS DX? Or Santino beating Umaga for the IC Belt in his first match? Or Carlito when he beat Cena for the US Title? Or when Beth Phenoix debuted and took the title in span of a month?
What you are asking for is already happening and has been for a number of years. Look what you did! You won the internet!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2008 13:34:26 GMT -5
Well it seems this forum is pretty much 70-30 in favor of these new guys debuting the way they have done. That response is very interesting to me, and somewhat confusing. I guess throwing a load of random newbies into the mix all within the same three week period, with little to no fanfare or character development is favorable to bring them in one at a time with a solid character and foundation for a push. I'm not saying you guys are wrong...far from it...I'm just enjoying the differences in opinion. More guys need gimmicks, I'll say that much. Braden Walker got let go because no one cared about him. He had no gimmick, he was just there. If he had come in as Wildcat Chris Harris, with the handcuffs and a hot asian manager, he would've gotten a reaction. If Ricky Ortiz keeps doin' what he's doin', then he's set. If Evan Bourne keeps doin' what he's doin'...hell, he's already made. If Scotty Goldman keeps Cabana-ing it up, he'll do fine just fine. As for others, (PRIMO COLON) they need something to set them apart. "He's Carlito's brother!" isn't a gimmick. "He's John Cena's brother" would be a gimmick, because of Cena's place on the card. Being the brother to a guy who hasn't been on TV for 6 months don't mean s***. Maybe Primo will renounce his latino heritage, saying that he doesn't want to be associated with Carlito. KERWIN WHITE PART TWO!
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Post by Andrew is Good on Aug 19, 2008 14:01:33 GMT -5
I'm not a big fan of them being brought in as job guys, which is how James Curtis got screwed over. But Curtis somehow got himself cookie cuttered, where before he had a good Memphis style look to him.
The name deal is annoying, like, I understand trying to create your own characters to separate from other places (in TNA, I like what they're doing with Sheik Abdul Bashir for example). But, Colt Cabana, Jay Bradley and most others are fresh characters for the most part.
I think debuting new guys like this on Smackdown or Raw is a bad idea, because at least with ECW, you have a smaller audience, so if people f*** up, it won't be AS bad. But I wish that they would give them more of a chance, instead of throwing them out there.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Aug 19, 2008 14:05:29 GMT -5
A lot of this goes back to what RD himself wrote in the first book.
Wrestling promoters have no sure-fire way of predicting who or what will go over with the fans and thusly they frequently create memorably bad angles and gimmicks.
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Post by Dynamite Kid on Aug 19, 2008 14:11:53 GMT -5
'WWE never makes new stars!'
'The new stars suck!'
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Full Moon
Mephisto
"How ya doin' Dave?"
Posts: 733
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Post by Full Moon on Aug 19, 2008 14:20:45 GMT -5
'WWE never makes new stars!' 'The new stars suck!' If you're trying to throw me in the bucket with "stereotypical cynical smark who can never be pleased", please refrain. I think me saying that WWE needs to quit being so lazy with the way they're introducing new starts is a very valid point. Look at what R-Truth is getting. Even if you don't remember K-Kwik or saw him in TNA, you already know from these promos that he is significant, somebody to look for, and that he will be a "big deal" when he finally arrives in WWE. Now while I know not everybody can and should get the promo treatment, it doesn't say much for the Riddicks and Walkers with their little $50 Highspots singlets and generic theme music to hope to catch on with the fans and be taken seriously. Personally if I was them, I'd be a little worried and disconcerted about being presented on TV with about as much importance and presence as a Velocity Jobber.
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Post by drjayphd (feat. Pitbull) on Aug 19, 2008 14:22:01 GMT -5
As for others, (PRIMO COLON) they need something to set them apart. "He's Carlito's brother!" isn't a gimmick. "He's John Cena's brother" would be a gimmick, because of Cena's place on the card. Being the brother to a guy who hasn't been on TV for 6 months don't mean s***. It might be if Primo brings in the new-look Carlito (50,000 bonus points if it's just Carlito's old look with a paper bag over his head)...
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Post by Dynamite Kid on Aug 19, 2008 14:49:10 GMT -5
You were making a very valid point old chap, it was just the title of the thread amused me given the general smarky complaints.
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Jay Peas 42
El Dandy
Totally flips out ALL the time.
Is looking forward to a Nation of Domination Kwannza Special.
Posts: 8,329
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Post by Jay Peas 42 on Aug 19, 2008 15:15:40 GMT -5
Hey, you know what really made The Rock's Career.
That's Right, the Nation of Domination. Nothing creates heat like saying "I hate the White man."
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Post by Dynamite Kid on Aug 19, 2008 15:21:19 GMT -5
OH! So THAT'S why Kerwin White didn't get over!
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Post by Big BosskMan on Aug 19, 2008 15:21:33 GMT -5
I think if Braden Walker hadn't shown up looking doughier than Paul Prudhomme after a weekend long gumbo and po' boy bender, then things might be different.
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