|
|
Post by Mehe is F'n hardcore. on Nov 23, 2008 23:38:13 GMT -5
Why is everyone blaming Kozlov for that match? I blame HHH and Hardys inability to dodge a blunt object I'm laying equal blame on all parties involved, from the bookers, to the announcers, to the lame duck crowd, and the two performers in the ring. It was a black hole, and it sucked everything out of the building. |
|
|
|
Post by Timmy8271 on Nov 23, 2008 23:39:48 GMT -5
It was a terrible idea to take Hardy out of the match and that type of match doesn't sell in WWE. Now if this match took place in ROH with two different guys doing the same style, people on here would probably call it 5 stars. But HHH and Kozlov can't do that type of match.
Kozlov will be fed to the undertaker and probably be released. It's a shame to because I liked him.
|
|
|
|
Post by The Immoral One on Nov 23, 2008 23:40:53 GMT -5
See this is another reason why I dont consider HHH one of the greatest ever, he can not carry someone in a match. I bet you HBK can get a good match out of Kozlov.
|
|
|
|
Post by Mongo & Pepe: Back in Black on Nov 23, 2008 23:42:21 GMT -5
You guys don't know what good storytelling is. Kozlov dominated the match by using his superior mat wrestling. He wrestled his style the entire match on the mat and did a very good job. I really liked it. Seriously, I think wrestling fans these days have no understanding of storytelling and good wrestling... I've been watching wrestling for twenty seven years or so. I KNOW GOOD WRESTLING, and that match WASN'T it. I've been watching for that long too. I don't think I've seen such a slow paced and boring match since the '80s. And I actually wanted to see that match too. It had such a good buildup. This was the first PPV my friends and I have ordered since Wrestlemania 20, believe it or not. |
|
randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
Posts: 4,804
|
Post by randomranter on Nov 23, 2008 23:57:43 GMT -5
It was a terrible idea to take Hardy out of the match and that type of match doesn't sell in WWE. Now if this match took place in ROH with two different guys doing the same style, people on here would probably call it 5 stars. But HHH and Kozlov can't do that type of match. I don't know anything about ROH, but if you took two of the IWC golden boys from ROH, and had them put on the exact same match with the exact same lack of excitement and charisma, I think people on here would crap all over it too. The problem wasn't the wrestling style. It was the total lack of anything resembling excitement or charisma. Part of the problem was the crowd being pissed over Hardy being out of the match and taking it out on HHH and Koslov. Part of the problem was the announcers basically giving up part way through the match and virtually acknowledging how awful it was. But most of the blame lays on the bookers, on HHH, and on Koslov. Koslov obviously is not ready for the main event, as he cannot tell a story in the ring with any level of charisma or emotion. He needs to learn how to play his role better, and he needs to learn when and what to sell. I blame the bookers for putting Koslov in the match in the first place when he's clearly not ready to be there. And I blame HHH for "mailing it in". You could tell he had no desire in that match whatsoever and was just going through the motions. People are comparing his performance in that match to Goldberg and Lesnar in their last match, when they were both "mailing it in" as well. And that comparison is pretty spot-on. So yea, the fans crapped all over it. But after seeing HHH and Koslov put on such a snoozer, can you blame them? The crowd was already pissed off enough about losing Hardy. The other two guys needed to step up their game to help make it up to the crowd. They did the worst thing they could do -- mail it in. |
|
|
|
Post by Mayonnaise on Nov 24, 2008 0:00:31 GMT -5
I liked Trips/Kozlov  . Thought it had an excellent story going and some great mat work. I don't blame the crowd for being pissed though. They were told Hardy would be in the match and wasn't. They were expecting a more fast paced match but, got something different. Had they gone in knowing it would be Trips/Kozlov only I don't think it would have been crapped on nearly as bad. |
|
MOONDOG
Trap-Jaw
I've got a bone to pick with you !
Posts: 495
|
Post by MOONDOG on Nov 24, 2008 0:02:59 GMT -5
SHATTERED right now.
|
|
Slim Loves Lily
El Dandy
I'm gonna want the milksteak boiled over hard.
Posts: 8,983
|
Post by Slim Loves Lily on Nov 24, 2008 0:04:58 GMT -5
Give me a motherf***ing break.
You people praise Khali's matches but shun Kozlov's work? FOH.
|
|
|
|
Post by royboy8 on Nov 24, 2008 0:05:13 GMT -5
I liked Trips/Kozlov . Thought it had an excellent story going and some great mat work. I don't blame the crowd for being pissed though. They were told Hardy would be in the match and wasn't. They were expecting a more fast paced match but, got something different. Had they gone in knowing it would be Trips/Kozlov only I don't think it would have been crapped on nearly as bad. This.... and I honestly do believe if this match would have taken place in ROH with two guys most have never heard of, some people on here would be praising it. |
|
|
|
Post by Crazy Diamond on Nov 24, 2008 0:23:18 GMT -5
Give me a mothersnorking break. You people praise Khali's matches but shun Kozlov's work? FOH. The Great Khali > Kozlov Kozlov just sucks, I'm sorry. Dude is boring. Cold War ended over fifteen years ago, give it a rest. |
|
|
|
Post by MNM's Official "Fixer" on Nov 24, 2008 0:29:02 GMT -5
This was the first Kozlov match I saw. The guys just seems really bland & boring, and I can't understand one f***ing word he says.
|
|
|
|
Post by Head Detective Aaron Enigma on Nov 24, 2008 1:36:33 GMT -5
That was the most boring match I've seen. Ever. You guys don't know what good storytelling is. Kozlov dominated the match by using his superior mat wrestling. He wrestled his style the entire match on the mat and did a very good job. I really liked it. Seriously, I think wrestling fans these days have no understanding of storytelling and good wrestling... Good mat wrestling and good wrestling are different. A lot of people that watch WWE watch it for the fast-paced, high-impact matches. A whole match of mat wrestling just doesn't cut it. I mean, the crowd was chanting "Boring" and "We Want Hardy" the whole time. I will admit it was good mat wrestling, but you cannot have an entire WWE match of mat wrestling, it just gets boring to watch after a while. |
|
H-Fist
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,485
|
Post by H-Fist on Nov 24, 2008 2:04:29 GMT -5
Kozlov doesn't have to be done. He can be pushed back down the card to work with midcarders who can help him. What was Kozlov supposed to do, say that he's not ready for a push? Not likely. Triple H, the road agents, and the bookers need to be in a position to make the best of Kozlov's shortcomings. They apparently tried the mat wrestling, and it didn't work. Shouldn't that have been tried before on Smackdown, as opposed to PPV? Now all they can do with him is put him somewhere close to this man  and have them managed by this man  . No, I'm not kidding. I am pro-manager. And Larry Sweeney could play well in Double Double E. |
|
salTy
El Dandy
Posts: 8,425
|
Post by salTy on Nov 24, 2008 2:35:28 GMT -5
So Koslov can have a high-paced, entertaining match with Festus, but not HHH...
I'm confused.
|
|
vanboxmeer
ALF
Starts threads that aren't about Edge or Cena
Posts: 1,057
|
Post by vanboxmeer on Nov 24, 2008 2:36:43 GMT -5
Smackdown editing and making matches look better than they actually are is a hell of a drug.
|
|
sloride
Unicron
Doesn't Suck Up. Or Does She?
The Greatest Entertainer to have ever Lived
Posts: 3,196
|
Post by sloride on Nov 24, 2008 5:33:01 GMT -5
As I have said perviously squashing a lot of jobbers and midcarders does not qualify one for the main event. And let's remember Kozlov's match with Taker on SD a few weeks ago sucked as well, even with editing. He is not ready for the main event and after last nights match will be shived back down to the mid card. The match did have some great mat wrestling but people didn't want to see that, mixed with the crowd being pissed that Hardy was out was always going to kill the match.
|
|
Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,359
|
Post by Dr. T is an alien on Nov 24, 2008 8:40:08 GMT -5
I did not see the match, but I have seen too many HHH mail-in matches against hosses and mat wrestlers to guess what the match was like. Throw in the fact that the crowd was swerved out of the very popular Hardy (for most of them I am sure that it is a case that they learned of the change upon the start of the show) and the fact that Kozlov is still green and you have a recipe for disaster. There are a few things that should have happened:
1) The Hardy angle, at best, should have happened in some way on TV. Perhaps have the TV tapings be mostly about him (with HHH and Kozlov both being severely annoyed by him). Jeff should have been placed into the match earlier (did you really need to waste a Koslov vs UT for a title shot? That wasted a full week of progressive booking that could have left open the possibility to let the angle fit into the TV schedule). Hardy's injury should have been a case of whodunit and will he get the medical clearance?
2) Hardy should not done a run in. He should have been on the sidelines after not getting medical clearance spouting vitriol at both HHH and Kozlov, claiming that since he does not know which of them attacked him, he would simply punish them both extremely. He should have served as a distraction for both HHH and Kozlov during the match. If there is one thing that both Hardy's can do well, it is get a crowd into a match with the slightest of non-verbal cues. A boring match could always use the presence of someone like that.
3) HHH needed to step up. He certainly can deliver huge when he cares. If he mailed it in for a green wrestler in the largest match of his career but can damn near kill himself to make his friends look good in a mere TV match, that does not speak well for him. Perhaps he was sick or injured himself. I honestly hope that was the case (NOTE: I am not wishing illness or injury on him). If that is the case, then I can understand not stepping up his game.
The fact of the matter it is in his best interest to do everything possible to build up every high-tier wrestler in the company. Despite many wrestlers having stocks in the company, no one else has a more involved interest in building the company to be as strong as possible than HHH. This was a case of him needing to step up, and apparently he did not. HHH has proven in the past that he can make even terrible stiffs look interesting and credible. Kozlov is far better than a terrible stiff; he just is a little green (which is not his fault).
|
|
|
|
Post by teamjd on Nov 24, 2008 9:17:04 GMT -5
I watched this with a non-wrestling fan at the bar, and this was her least favourite match. I wasn't a huge fan either. Maybe it was good mat wrestling, but thats hardly what I was looking for in what I, and the crowd, were expecting in a triple threat with Jeff Hardy.
|
|
|
|
Post by Solid Stryk-Dizzle on Nov 24, 2008 9:42:34 GMT -5
They can fix Koslov! Just turn him heel!...oh wait.
|
|
Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
R.I.P. Deadpool
Posts: 43,870
|
Post by Krimzon on Nov 24, 2008 11:18:54 GMT -5
So Koslov can have a high-paced, entertaining match with Festus, but not HHH... I'm confused. That's what I'm thinking. Kozlov had good matches with Festus & Hardy. How come his Triple H match was basically a lame duck? I'm along the line of thinking that HHH just phoned it in. They weren't building to a finish. They were just there stalling until the finish came. |
|
. Thought it had an excellent story going and some great mat work. I don't blame the crowd for being pissed though. They were told Hardy would be in the match and wasn't. They were expecting a more fast paced match but, got something different. Had they gone in knowing it would be Trips/Kozlov only I don't think it would have been crapped on nearly as bad.
