Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
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Post by Celgress on Jan 4, 2009 18:53:07 GMT -5
-53%, I'd guess.
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Post by David Otunga: Eternian at Law on Jan 4, 2009 18:55:51 GMT -5
Only way this would EVER happen is if Stephanie wanted the belt for some reason, I could easily see them putting the belt on Mark Henry or someone and having them drop the belt to Stephanie.
Not that I think that's a good idea because its terrible but I could easily see Steph writing that story line.
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Post by Lazy peon on Jan 4, 2009 18:58:21 GMT -5
So THAT'S why McCool lost the Diva's title...
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Post by bobskutter on Jan 4, 2009 18:59:29 GMT -5
As a few people have said it's hard to imagine a woman not only gaining a credibly believable win over a presumably larger male, but to the WWE's perspective the issue is whether there's any money to be made off the back of it. A woman would have to be very over with the fan base for it to ride, and given the vociferous nature of a lot of crowds with stuff they don't like, I just can't see it happening.
The type of woman would a) have to have the right look (ie a Chyna, Awesome Kong type) but b) have always been presented as capable of handling herself with the male talent. Whether a woman with this look/presentation would get over enough for them to put a main event title on (and look to carry ppv buys and house show business) I'm not so sure about.
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Post by salsashark on Jan 4, 2009 19:34:01 GMT -5
I think its inevitable... not with anyone currently on the roster and maybe not anytime in the next decade. But it will happen. Absolutely. I hope that it happens in my lifetime (whether I still care about wrestling or not). With the right booking, anything can happen. Just think that in the real world we just a saw a black President for the first time ever. Now, imagine what would happen in the predetermined world of WWE.
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Post by thesunbeast on Jan 4, 2009 19:41:10 GMT -5
We've had this debate too many times. I thought about something though, it pertains to the "brass ring".
Yes, a woman can get the brass ring in the WWE, as well as other people.
The problem is everyone's perception as to what makes a "main eventer". There's a difference between being a main eventer and being a "big star", and being a big star is the most important. Today, they are one in the same, and that's because the only way to be a big star is to be a main eventer, and that's the company's fault and the current products fault.
Being a main eventer is really about being a big star. We even describe being a nig star as "reaching main event status". Thing about it, if 70% of the roster were made into "main eventers", then on every card you would have a main eventer in the 3rd match.
THIS is the way it was done in the 80's and 90's. Almost everyone in the company was a main eventer, they were a big star. However, you can be a big star and be in the last match because you're so popular, you just don't have to sacrafice you're role in order to do it.
Case in point, tag teams. Today, if you're a tag team wrestler, you won't even be considered a guy that's getting pushed unless the team breaks up and one of the guy's gets a singles push. Because, i guess singles wrestling is for "main eventers".
Except for the part about that being incorrect. The Road Warriors are a perfect example of a tag team reaching main event status or being huge stars. I think they were the first, and mabe the only, tag team to ever reach main event status. Why, because their STAR POWER had risen to that point. Neither Animal or Hawk would ever get bigger on their own than they already were as a tag team. If Hawk or Animal won the WWF title, their star power would be EQUAL to that as the team's previolus star power during their prime, mabe even less.
The reason why the Intercontinental exists is to create a hierarchy. You have to have a hierarchy in order to have someone recognized as the best without much confusion. You have the champion of the little stars, and you have the champion of the big stars.
This is what the tag division needs. You need to have a midcard tag title, and a main event tag title. Certain tag teams would be allowed the opportunity to get over huge, and the Road warrior most definitely would have main evented ppvs, even Wrestlemania, and today, I think that Cryme Tyme could do the same. Cryme Tyme could be equal in stature to John Cena without ever breaking up and having one go single. The only reason why going single is the only way to be a main eventer is because that's the only place they have a main event. the reason why that's the only place that has the main event is because that's the only place that has big stars. the only reason why that's the only place that has big stars is because that's the only place you have a hierarchy. You have jobbers that loose to someone who's a midcarder, and you have midcarders who loose to main eventers. You have levels that identify who is good and who is great. In tag teams, you only have everyone the same, like middle level stars.
It's the same thing with the women. You can create female stars that are as big as John Cena without ever having to break off into the men's division and fight John Cena. Do I think that it could ever be done that a woman could bee WWE champion of the men and have it be believable? Yes, that's another story, but I still think that would be a step down, making the women look bad anyway, that they can't reach the brass ring on their own when in fact they can.
The women's division needs lots of things changed for this to happen. They can't be just one match on the show, the "women's spot" like their a side dish or a gimmick, even though that's how they're used. The women need their own brand, just like Smackdown, Raw, or ECW, where they can have their one match on another show (like the Raw match on a smackdown show and vice versa) so it dosen't look like too much segregation in the eyes of the public, and they can have mutiple matches in a day. Also, this gives them an opportunity to create a hierarchy of some sorts, they can have the women's TV title or something, and they can invest more tv time in building stars and feuds for the world title during an hour long show. This way the women's title can be viewed as on par with the WWE title, the world heavyweight title, and the ecw title.
See how it works? If SHIMMER as an organization ever grows to the status of TNA, then the top 4 competitors of that organization would have the same star power as the top 4 in TNA. It's the same if they ever got as big as WWE.
When someone asks if a woman can ever be WWE champion, what they're really asking is if a woman can ever be the most over person in the company and be the focal point, and the answer is yes. In the 80's Wendy Richter was second, right behind Hulk Hogan. People say that Hogan often joked that Richter was going to be the one he'd drop the title to.
Yes I think it's inevitable that a woman will be WWE champion, but my issue is why have it be done that way?
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Post by Robbymac on Jan 4, 2009 20:51:47 GMT -5
I've actually heard some pretty good arguments here. Most of you have taken a different approach to the argument, and its one that makes sense.
I actually believe that since the general audience that watches wrestling isn't very bright, you can convince them that a woman could conceivably be the best wrestler in the world. Despite the fact that its the most absurd premise ever, you can convince them that Undertaker can shoot lightning bolts or Kane can make fire shoot out of the ring posts. You can convince them a woman could be the best wrestler in the world.
So if you can convince the masses that she's capable, and she can get over. Sure go for it. I think it would Katie Vick level bad, but if the marks buy into it, then its good business.
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JacopeX
Dennis Stamp
Patience! Pashunz!
Posts: 4,182
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Post by JacopeX on Jan 4, 2009 21:06:49 GMT -5
If only there was women wrestlers like Combat Toyoda or Megumi Kudo. I can buy them as world champs.
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Eli
Team Rocket
Mutha licka!
Posts: 974
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Post by Eli on Jan 4, 2009 21:31:41 GMT -5
NO NO NO NO NO a million times NO!! First of all, nowon will take Pro-wrestling seriously if this happened, and no main eventer would want to put a woman over(and i dont blame them) . It will be like David Arquette winning the WCW title. Because god forbid any woman be taken seriously. After all, we're only here to cook, clean and make babies. Why should a woman surpass a man? Them wimmin' shuld be raisin' a family *long redneck rant on what women are good for*
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Post by Robbymac on Jan 4, 2009 21:37:18 GMT -5
NO NO NO NO NO a million times NO!! First of all, nowon will take Pro-wrestling seriously if this happened, and no main eventer would want to put a woman over(and i dont blame them) . It will be like David Arquette winning the WCW title. Because god forbid any woman be taken seriously. After all, we're only here to cook, clean and make babies. Why should a woman surpass a man? Them wimmin' shuld be raisin' a family *long redneck rant on what women are good for* No one is saying women shouldn't be taken seriously, or should be in the kitchen, or should be cleaning and making babies. He's just stating an unpopular truth that is very hard to believe that a woman could defeat the best men in the world in a wrestling match. Considering that in every real athletic contest you can name best man > best woman.
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Post by Sumbody Gon' Get Dey Kneelift on Jan 4, 2009 21:59:04 GMT -5
IF TAKER IS UNDEAD.
IF KANE CAN CONTROL FIRE.
IF CENA CAN BEAT UP TEN MEN AT ONCE.
IF HORNSWOGGLE CAN DO MAGIC.
IF THE 619 IS A SANE AND LOGICAL MOVE.
A WOMAN CAN BE CHAMPION IN THE WWE.
I mean, I hate to break this to you guys, but there are plenty of female marines who could kick the shit out of Samoa Joe, CM Punk and Triple H, and plenty of Israeli Special Forces women who wouldn't waste time kicking Big Show's and Edge's ass, and instead would just kill them in a matter of seconds.
And I don't know why people keep suggesting BIG Megumi Kudo Phoenix or Awesome Kong type women.
Actually, I think the only way a woman could be champion is if she was TINY.
Just a little lucha chick, but basically the best Lucha chick EVER. It would require a female worker of the utmost caliber. She'd have to be amazing on the mic, fun to look at, and a relentlessly fast worker; if Rey Mysterio can beat Kane and Big Show, so can she.
Give her hagakures, dropkicks, shining wizards, superkicks, enziguiris, moonsaults, shooting star presses, hurranranas, dragon whips, a crapload of lucha neckbreakers and DDTs, a fiercely competitive attitude, and DON'T PORTRAY HER AS UNBEATABLE, then yeah, this could definitely get over.
But it'd take a one in a million woman to do it.
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Post by Robbymac on Jan 4, 2009 22:00:44 GMT -5
Actually, I think the only way a woman could be champion is if she was TINY. Just a little lucha chick, but basically the best Lucha chick EVER. It would require a female worker of the utmost caliber. She'd have to be amazing on the mic, fun to look at, and a relentlessly fast worker; if Rey Mysterio can beat Kane and Big Show, so can she. Give her hagakures, dropkicks, shining wizards, superkicks, enziguiris, moonsaults, shooting star presses, hurranranas, dragon whips, a crapload of lucha neckbreakers and DDTs, a fiercely competitive attitude, and DON'T PORTRAY HER AS UNBEATABLE, then yeah, this could definitely get over. But it'd take a one in a million woman to do it. You might be on to something there.
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Post by Sumbody Gon' Get Dey Kneelift on Jan 4, 2009 22:08:37 GMT -5
Essentially, give a woman a set of moves based around outspeeding guys and repeatedly KICKING THEM DIRETLY IN THE HEAD.
If you get the right woman, the crowd WILL buy it. I would.
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ChitownKnight
El Dandy
Lets go Bears
Posts: 8,239
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Post by ChitownKnight on Jan 4, 2009 22:16:46 GMT -5
NO NO NO NO NO a million times NO!! First of all, nowon will take Pro-wrestling seriously if this happened, and no main eventer would want to put a woman over(and i dont blame them) . It will be like David Arquette winning the WCW title. Because god forbid any woman be taken seriously. After all, we're only here to cook, clean and make babies. Why should a woman surpass a man? Them wimmin' shuld be raisin' a family *long redneck rant on what women are good for* Sorry if i came off as sexist, but im just sayin dat the crowd would crap all over it.
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Post by Lenny: Smooth like Keith Stone on Jan 4, 2009 22:22:40 GMT -5
It's a fake title, you could give it to a dog or David Arquette. Although, a dog would be far more believable than he was. That settles it.... Chloe for WWE champion!!
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Post by Robbymac on Jan 4, 2009 22:24:38 GMT -5
I mean, I hate to break this to you guys, but there are plenty of female marines who could kick the excretory matter out of Samoa Joe, CM Punk and Triple H, and plenty of Israeli Special Forces women who wouldn't waste time kicking Big Show's and Edge's ass, and instead would just kill them in a matter of seconds.This is where you lost me. The point is not that these women could kick the shit out of pro wrestlers. The point is could they kick the shit out of their male marine counterparts. The answer is unequivocally no. If you stick to the argument that wrestling is fictional and with all the ridiculousness that goes on you could convince the audience a woman could compete then you have a point.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Jan 4, 2009 22:30:00 GMT -5
Because god forbid any woman be taken seriously. After all, we're only here to cook, clean and make babies. Why should a woman surpass a man? Them wimmin' shuld be raisin' a family *long redneck rant on what women are good for* No one is saying women shouldn't be taken seriously, or should be in the kitchen, or should be cleaning and making babies. He's just stating an unpopular truth that is very hard to believe that a woman could defeat the best men in the world in a wrestling match. Considering that in every real athletic contest you can name best man > best woman. it's true, it's true To me wrestling is supposed to be geared towards males and boys, you lose that demographic by making the woman the main protagonist. Really I think 30 Rock is okay, but I don't go out of my way to watch iit mostly because the demographic it goes after isn't me. THey put an independent woman in charge of a large show. Okay cool. Whatever. Stephanie McMahon does that too, but she's not the main protagonist. The reason it can't be a woman like Mickie or Melina or even the Scariest Woman of all time Akira Hokuto is because they are a niche market, one that caters to a very specific audience. Kill Bill is a movie, wrestling is a movie. She had a samurai sword and ancient Kung Fu. Chyna had Low Blows and strength on her side. Really Chyna was a real life depiction of what was hot at the time, Xena: Warrior Princess. Chyna was over with the men because she was an ass kicker, she was over with the women because she was an ass kicker. She was believable in her role. Most of it had to do with her look, style, and mystique. She was a once in a lifetime talent, that you won't find anymore. IN mexico they have intergender matches and even an intergender tag title. But I don't think that Fabi Apache or Sara Stock would take the title off of Cyber or Mistico. It won't happen because the demographic is males. Sorry to say, that's just the truth. THat's why women's wrestling in Japan is relegated to the indies. Pro Wrestling is a man's sport I don't care if that makes me sound sexist. THat's why Women like Beth, Natalya, McCool, Mickie, Melina, and Kelly are treated like eye candy, because that is what their role is. to be eye candy. Hire a wrestler like Awesome Kong, her role in WWE would not be eye candy. Her role would be destroyer. I can definitely easily book an Awesome Kong TNA title chase, because of the X-division. And Kong being bigger than a lot of guys on their roster. I can't say the same for WWE because the women aren't used for that role, and I don't think WWE hires those type of women. Beth is not that woman. There is no woman wrestler out there at this present time that fills that role. Well besides Awesome Kong
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Post by Hypnotix on Jan 4, 2009 22:42:49 GMT -5
Once Chyna regroups and makes her long-awaited return to the WWE, it will happen.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2009 22:43:44 GMT -5
We have enough matches won via rollups and boring outside interference already, which is how 100% of the woman's wins would be gained.
Doesn't matter whether that's a good idea or the right way to do it, that's the only way it'd be done. You shouldn't want to see that at all.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Jan 4, 2009 22:44:59 GMT -5
Unless it was Chyna doing a Low Blow leading to a Powerbomb/DDT/Pedigree
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