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Post by i.Sarita.com on May 13, 2009 3:48:28 GMT -5
He is guilty of taking the wrestlers who made him rich and allowing (and even encouraging) them to die at extremely young ages. He lied about creating a drug testing program in 1994 and needs to take a major share of the responsibility for all WWF wrestlers who have since had their lives shortened or ended by the drug abuse that he turned a blind eye to. I recognize that the wrestlers need to share responsibility themselves, but he bought good publicity with his fake testing program and has their blood on his hands. He is also a lousy hypocrite when it comes to health care for the employees who made him rich. If they're not employees, they need to be free to wrestle for any company at any time. If they're employees, he needs to arrange for adequate health care. Furthermore, he has taken an industry that used to showcase wrestlers and used it to serve his own ego. Linda, Shane, Stephanie, and Vince have taken time away from actually wrestling in the mistaken belief that they're even remotely entertaining. Because of this, none of his monopoly is worth watching. Speaking of monopolies, Vince's hypocrisy shines through again. Far from the anti-monopoly views that he claimed to hold during the Time Warner merger, he has cornered the market on professional wrestling. Does he still believe that such companies should be forced to split up? Strangely enough, no. Go figure. In addition, he has played a major role in the moral decline of society. Nowhere in the late 1990s was the sharp decline of standards on television (both in terms of language and what could be shown) more obvious than WWF programming. I hold hope for people like Jeffrey Dahmer and Adolf Hitler that they could repent prior to death and escape eternal damnation. I have no doubt, however, that Satan has had a spot reserved for Vince McMahon for many years now. Did you just compare him to Adolf Hitler? You haven't the slightest idea how skewed your perspective is, do you? A Holocaust survivor would slap the taste right out of your mouth as soon as look at you. Actually, I think he said that Vince McMahon is WORSE than Hitler.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on May 13, 2009 3:53:27 GMT -5
Did you just compare him to Adolf Hitler? You haven't the slightest idea how skewed your perspective is, do you? A Holocaust survivor would slap the taste right out of your mouth as soon as look at you. Actually, I think he said that Vince McMahon is WORSE than Hitler. No kidding. I mean, I get not liking a guy, or thinking he has made cash off of someone else's suffering. Someone like Don King would be an appropriate comparison then. Now, Jeffrey Dahmer? Adolf Hitler? No, that isn't even close. I don't recall hearing about Vince attempting to eradicate a race of people. I don't remember hearing that Vince killed someone, and then ate them, and repeated it. (Yes, I am aware Don King also killed someone, but that's not what he's famous for, he's famous for being seen as an exploiting showman, which is far closer to what the person was trying to say, I believe) If I lost my temper, it's because I know people who have lost family in the Holocaust, in addition to losing family myself in the Pacific Campaign.
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Post by Loki on May 13, 2009 3:56:24 GMT -5
He is guilty of taking the wrestlers who made him rich and allowing (and even encouraging) them to die at extremely young ages. He lied about creating a drug testing program in 1994 and needs to take a major share of the responsibility for all WWF wrestlers who have since had their lives shortened or ended by the drug abuse that he turned a blind eye to. I recognize that the wrestlers need to share responsibility themselves, but he bought good publicity with his fake testing program and has their blood on his hands. He is also a lousy hypocrite when it comes to health care for the employees who made him rich. If they're not employees, they need to be free to wrestle for any company at any time. If they're employees, he needs to arrange for adequate health care. Furthermore, he has taken an industry that used to showcase wrestlers and used it to serve his own ego. Linda, Shane, Stephanie, and Vince have taken time away from actually wrestling in the mistaken belief that they're even remotely entertaining. Because of this, none of his monopoly is worth watching. Speaking of monopolies, Vince's hypocrisy shines through again. Far from the anti-monopoly views that he claimed to hold during the Time Warner merger, he has cornered the market on professional wrestling. Does he still believe that such companies should be forced to split up? Strangely enough, no. Go figure. In addition, he has played a major role in the moral decline of society. Nowhere in the late 1990s was the sharp decline of standards on television (both in terms of language and what could be shown) more obvious than WWF programming. I hold hope for people like Jeffrey Dahmer and Adolf Hitler that they could repent prior to death and escape eternal damnation. I have no doubt, however, that Satan has had a spot reserved for Vince McMahon for many years now. That's, mildly put, the biggest pile of smoking crap I've ever read. You're entitled to dislike Vince McMahon all you want, but some claims are totally outrageous, and most of that hate-filled tirade is based on skewed opinions. Stop buying into everything Internet Journalists write, stop believing Mr.McMahon, the TV character, is Vincent Kennedy McMahon the human being. Good God, the last two paragraphs are an ode to the stupidity of Internet Ubersmarks. Oh, I bet you'd TOTALLY have the guts of saying all of that to Vince himself face-to-face...
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on May 13, 2009 4:13:38 GMT -5
I think Vince made wrestling national, that he put a lot of money in a lot of pockets, and that he is an amazing physical specimen.
He had a lot of help doing it, but the common factor here is Vince and Vince's company. He hired a lot of the right men at the right time, and a lot of us would of been too weak to go on during times of hardship. The Steroids Trial, WCW running him ragged, and seeing some of his top stars walk away from him could not of been easy, and it had to feel personal. He kept his chin up and kept going, so whether I like him as a person or not(And I have a feeling I probably would, going by those who have known him's words on the guy), I have to respect his determination.
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Post by no2humanorchid on May 13, 2009 5:08:41 GMT -5
I have nothing but respect and admiration for him. And his product, no one elses, has entertained me for over 19 solid years and counting (with no breaks or sabbaticalls etc from the shows in that period either).
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Beans
Team Rocket
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Post by Beans on May 13, 2009 5:13:06 GMT -5
So Vince is to blame if a bunch of his employees don't grow up and end up in early graves?
Wrestlers die because they don't mature. While it's almost understandable for someone in their early 20's to live a 'party' live style of drink and drugs, and have a blast doing it, when you're still doing that in your 30's, 40's and beyond....you're an asshole and McMahon is not to blame for that.
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h
Hank Scorpio
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Post by h on May 13, 2009 8:18:37 GMT -5
Actually, I think he said that Vince McMahon is WORSE than Hitler. Of course I didn't. I made it quite clear that their crimes are nowhere close to being on the same level. Please at least try to folow the thread befoer making such a negligent statement. At any rate, the thread asks people for their opinions of Vince McMahon, not their opinions of my opinion of Vince McMahon. I gave mine. What are yours?
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Post by The Thread Barbi on May 13, 2009 8:39:31 GMT -5
Brilliant business man who saw an oppotunity and capitalised on it. But as most successful business men, his loyalties lie with the dollar, and it doesn't matter who he has to leave on the wayside - Bret Hart, Warrior, Steamboat, Randy Savage...even Hulk Hogan, to an extent (see 1992/93), got kicked to the curb after their sell-by date - irregardless of the sacrifices they made for him.
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Post by Topher is Human on May 13, 2009 8:59:01 GMT -5
The man is the definition of Victory. Has done the impossible time and time again and became rediculously successful because of it.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,580
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Post by Bo Rida on May 13, 2009 8:59:44 GMT -5
Although he's no angel I think it's sad that people forget all he's done for certain wrestlers, for instance he may well have saved Regal's life, I also remember hearing that he's paid for funerals.
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Post by boiledewokthe3rd on May 13, 2009 9:02:38 GMT -5
I think he is a dreadful bastard.
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efarns
Don Corleone
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Post by efarns on May 13, 2009 9:08:28 GMT -5
I think we've found where Bruno Sammartino hangs out online.
Vince is the greatest promoter ever. Good or bad, I don't know if the man ever has any small ideas.
He's also done a lot of good things for people. Nobody's perfect, but there are plenty of stories about his heart and generosity.
He's accomplished everything there is to accomplish in the business. He's made enough money to keep the clan financially secure for generations. There's nobody in the wrestling world left to defeat.
In most people, those things would breed complacency and ego. I imagine those are more responsible for him "losing his edge" than mere age.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,580
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Post by Bo Rida on May 13, 2009 9:13:08 GMT -5
I think we've found where Bruno Sammartino hangs out online. Vince is the greatest promoter ever. Good or bad, I don't know if the man ever has any small ideas. He's also done a lot of good things for people. Nobody's perfect, but there are plenty of stories about his heart and generosity. He's accomplished everything there is to accomplish in the business. He's made enough money to keep the clan financially secure for generations. There's nobody in the wrestling world left to defeat. In most people, those things would breed complacency and ego. I imagine those are more responsible for him "losing his edge" than mere age. Good point, I think Jungle book sums it up "I've reached the top and had to stop and that's what's bothering me".
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Fiddleford H. McGucket
El Dandy
My Mind's been gone for 30-odd years! Can't Break what's already broken!
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Post by Fiddleford H. McGucket on May 13, 2009 9:35:46 GMT -5
As a person....I have no really bad things to say about him as I've never met him.
Professionally I find his positions and marketing skill to be amazing, even when its a bad idea its usually a well-executed bad Idea. The man got people to follow him for months based on a GIANT EGG, and for years based on a wrestling zombie!
Is he tragically behind the times and a shameless self promoter? Kinda....He doesn't "get" pop culture that he himself isn't intimately involved with creating. As for self-promotion, just look at the business he's in. To be frank, HE IS HIS PRODUCT; or rather that's his perception of public perception.
That actually comes back to the 'behind the times' idea tho. Even as technology andadvertising has grown, when it comes to anything beyond television he's been hesitant and at times outright hostile to changing to more modern techniques and show distribution.
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Just Jay
Unicron
DIESEL!?!?!
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Post by Just Jay on May 13, 2009 9:54:39 GMT -5
Actually, I think he said that Vince McMahon is WORSE than Hitler. Of course I didn't. I made it quite clear that their crimes are nowhere close to being on the same level. Please at least try to folow the thread befoer making such a negligent statement. At any rate, the thread asks people for their opinions of Vince McMahon, not their opinions of my opinion of Vince McMahon. I gave mine. What are yours? This is a discussion board after all. I think we're all entitled to raise a question based on someone's opinion for further clarification. I think that's completely valid. Your claim that McMahon would feel no reason to repent before he dies is pretty heavy. We're talking about a man who had paid for the funerals of several wrestlers, a man who does a lot of things out of generosity rather than the image of doing so. Vince has gone out to say that the fans have formed their opinion of him already, so it doesn't matter if he tries to put on an image or not. Back on topic, I don't believe Vince to be a cold, heartless monster the likes of which people have made him out to be. I understand your opinions of him and all, but the last pill is a bit hard to swallow to say the least. He's the head of a multi-million dollar corporation, and the fact that he shows this much compassion as he does is astounding. I'll leave you with a clip of Vince McMahon remembering Eddie Guerrero. Maybe you could note the instance at which he holds back his tears as he believes that makes him vulnerable.
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Post by The King of Memphis Tennessee on May 13, 2009 10:07:36 GMT -5
This is my wife's opinion on Vince. Keep in mind that because of my obsession with wrestling, she hates anything wrestling-related and wishes that Titan Towers would burn to the ground. I'm not sure if that plays a part in this but here goes:
She feels that Vince hates his father for leaving the family when he was a child, leaving him and his mother to deal with an abusive stepfather. In her opinion, Vince hates wrestling because it took his father away from him as a young age, so he got involved so that he could one day take over the business and destroy pro wrestling. She says that in the beginning, he was succeeding and making money at the same time, which was a plus. He destroyed the territories, exposed the business and changed the way the world sees wrestling. Once WCW and ECW were out of the picture, he tried to find new ways to make money and get the fans away from wrestling (i.e. the XFL and WWE Films). But because they are failing/have failed, he's stuck with wrestling until the next big idea comes along.
Basically, he hates the business but loves the money. And as much as I try to tell my wife that she has no idea what she's talking about, you almost have to believe she's half right. In taking over the business and changing the face of wrestling, you'd think Vince was a genius on a path to run the entire wrestling industry. But "wrestling" has become a dirty word, and he's gotten fans more concerned with storylines and backstage skits than the action in the ring, something that would've been unheard of a generation ago. Think about it, who gets a better reaction: Melina and Beth bumping their asses off in the ring, or Santino in drag? Sure, Santina is entertaining as hell, but this is supposed to be World Wrestling Entertainment, not just World Entertainment.
Again, thats my wife's opinion, which has spread to me like a virus, and now I'm spreading it to all of you. *A-choo!*
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Post by Avalanche Alvarez on May 13, 2009 10:09:44 GMT -5
He's a two faced, villainous, yeasty codpiece but has business savvy.
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Post by Bravo Echo November on May 13, 2009 10:10:31 GMT -5
Visionary, brilliant but, behind the times. QFT, I owe everything I enjoy about wrestling to Vince McMahon, because without him we would not have what we've got today.
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Beans
Team Rocket
Posts: 921
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Post by Beans on May 13, 2009 10:38:25 GMT -5
I can't think of anything he's done wrong, personally.
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on May 13, 2009 10:42:37 GMT -5
He is guilty of taking the wrestlers who made him rich and allowing (and even encouraging) them to die at extremely young ages. He lied about creating a drug testing program in 1994 and needs to take a major share of the responsibility for all WWF wrestlers who have since had their lives shortened or ended by the drug abuse that he turned a blind eye to. I recognize that the wrestlers need to share responsibility themselves, but he bought good publicity with his fake testing program and has their blood on his hands. He is also a lousy hypocrite when it comes to health care for the employees who made him rich. If they're not employees, they need to be free to wrestle for any company at any time. If they're employees, he needs to arrange for adequate health care. Furthermore, he has taken an industry that used to showcase wrestlers and used it to serve his own ego. Linda, Shane, Stephanie, and Vince have taken time away from actually wrestling in the mistaken belief that they're even remotely entertaining. Because of this, none of his monopoly is worth watching. Speaking of monopolies, Vince's hypocrisy shines through again. Far from the anti-monopoly views that he claimed to hold during the Time Warner merger, he has cornered the market on professional wrestling. Does he still believe that such companies should be forced to split up? Strangely enough, no. Go figure. In addition, he has played a major role in the moral decline of society. Nowhere in the late 1990s was the sharp decline of standards on television (both in terms of language and what could be shown) more obvious than WWF programming. I hold hope for people like Jeffrey Dahmer and Adolf Hitler that they could repent prior to death and escape eternal damnation. I have no doubt, however, that Satan has had a spot reserved for Vince McMahon for many years now. .... What a strange grasp of reality. While Vince obviously didnt stamp out the drugs in the early 90s, the wrestlers at the end of the day didnt have to take them. Not everybody did the drugs, guys like Bret gained success without drugs, and I hardly think Vince sat there going "Do it, take the roids, die young! It'll make me more CASH!" While he may have encouraged the star look, it's possible to achieve such a look naturally- look at Lance Storm. A buddy of mine is a gym fanatic, in crazy shape and looks like he'd be on roids, but is 100% clean. The wrestlers didnt need to do the drugs by any means. Vince perhaps should have tried to stop it more than he did, but he isn't the devil incarnate for it. Other sports have failed to stamp drugs out too. Vince has also been providing plenty of health care and support. Gave Vickie a job when he didnt need to. Has paid wrestlers for years to do nothing, simply cause theyre former stars. Has offered rehab to every former star. Has paid for various other expenses. He's not obligated to that but he's done it anyway. Maybe the new drug program came in a bit late, but at least its in place now. For what its worth I find Vince an entertaining on air character, even now. And the ratings tend to agree. All businessmen will do anything to succeed and become number 1. If Vince is evil for this then so are all successful businessmen. WWE has not corrupted the world's moral fibre at all. Maybe some impressionable idiots started doing dumb stuff because tehy saw it on WWE, but WWE has not poisoned mankind. Far less decent things have and always will be on TV, and for what it's worth I have the opinion that TV broadcasting standards are a dubious issue anyway. And the last paragraph is purely laughable. Vince is in no way, shape or form even remotely CLOSE to what Hitler was. And "repenting" I have always felt is a way of saying "cop-out". Saying "I did wrong" means nothing. Doing something to fix it does. And vince has done many generous things to try and help past employees out, which I would say is trying to right any wrongs. Vince isn't a saint by any means, but he's not evil either. He's a businessman. Can be both cruel and kind- various wrestlers have stories of both. As for my opinion of Vince- ruthless businessman, brilliant mind, entertaining TV personality if a little formulaic, but he's lost touch with modern culture in recent years.
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