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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on May 13, 2009 13:19:33 GMT -5
Actually, I think he said that Vince McMahon is WORSE than Hitler. Of course I didn't. I made it quite clear that their crimes are nowhere close to being on the same level. Please at least try to folow the thread befoer making such a negligent statement. At any rate, the thread asks people for their opinions of Vince McMahon, not their opinions of my opinion of Vince McMahon. I gave mine. What are yours? Once again dude, with all due respect, you made some very outlandish claims and I feel I'm well within my right to speak up and ask for an explanation as to why you feel that way. If I went to a "Legend of Rock" message board and claimed that Lars Ulrich is the Devil incarnate and that he eats children for breakfast I'd expect people to step up and say "Dude, what the f*** are you talking about?" and if I said that I'd have an explanation as to why I made such a claim. You, sir, have made such a claim and gotten defensive when people have called you out on it. It's only reasonable that I/we deserve some sort of explanation.
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Miz-Wannabe
Don Corleone
Vicariously Living through The Miz
Posts: 1,444
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Post by Miz-Wannabe on May 13, 2009 13:31:27 GMT -5
I don't always agree with his style but it sure as hell has put the spotlight on some very talented wrestlers(SCSA, HBK) and I thank him for that. Also he has wasted a lot of time on wrestlers who just have a look and nothing beyond that. But the show does revolve around wrestlers whether they are doing skits or promos or wrestling. They are always trying to promote their wrestlers as larger than life.
I think he understands the audience more than I do because his company makes MILLIONS of dollars from the promotion of wrestlers.
He is the greatest promoter of wrestling today.
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Post by weekendwarrior on May 13, 2009 13:37:39 GMT -5
Again, because new readers don't read past pages:
Who paid for the rehab of wrestlers that requested it? Vince McMahon did.
Who took care of Freddy Blassie and took care of his medical bills untill the day he died? Vince McMahon did.
Who gave Vickie Guerrero a job because her husband didn't leave her with enough to survive? Vince McMahon did.
Paul Bearer was broke and out of the business, weighed five hundred pounds, and needed gastric bypasss surgery, but had no insurance. Who paid for it? Vince did.
Who paid for Bam Bam's funeral? McMahon did.
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Post by championsucka on May 13, 2009 14:08:35 GMT -5
I think Vince is a great booker. Shame it hasn't been passed on to his offspring.
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Just Jay
Unicron
DIESEL!?!?!
Posts: 3,282
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Post by Just Jay on May 13, 2009 16:54:27 GMT -5
Its a shame, because here we have someone who has played a character so well, that many people have a hard time distinguishing between Mr. McMahon and Vince. Most of the successful gimmicks in the past are exaggerated versions of the wrestlers themselves, and Vince is no different. He's greatly exaggerated the Mr. McMahon character to the point where the line has been blurred between the two.
In my honest opinion, Vince is a real class act, a real stand up guy. Remember, he's the head of a multi-million dollar corporation, and not every decision is going to be good or beneficial to everyone. He may have done some questionable things, but he's not here to be peacemaker. He's here to run a company, and the sheer fact that he would even risk his neck (He has reportedly allowed wrestlers to be extra rough on him because he can take it) for the sake of the spectacle of wrestling is absolutely brilliant.
You may not like him or agree with him, but I definitely believe you gotta respect the man. There aren't that many people that can take obscure markets and explode them to a global phenomenon. There aren't that many chairmen and chairwomen who will go out to protect their product as tenaciously as Vince does.
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Post by Crazy Diamond on May 13, 2009 17:22:18 GMT -5
Vince knows how to make money, but when it comes to being creative he's a bloody disaster. He also doesn't seem to have much respect for any wrestler who no longer needs to rely on him for support. I do not see him as a genius but he's definitely not an idiot. I disagree with those who think that the deaths of wrestlers are solely their fault, but I do not want to take the discussion off-topic.
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Post by neilfrazier on May 13, 2009 17:26:15 GMT -5
Vince is your typical, cutthroat American businessman. He will do whatever it takes to succeed, but has little regard for anyone that stands in his way. His best ideas were a decade ago, and it's becoming clear that he is the aging King of a rapidly declining product.
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h
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,734
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Post by h on May 13, 2009 17:36:21 GMT -5
Once again dude, with all due respect, you made some very outlandish claims and I feel I'm well within my right to speak up and ask for an explanation as to why you feel that way. If I went to a "Legend of Rock" message board and claimed that Lars Ulrich is the Devil incarnate and that he eats children for breakfast I'd expect people to step up and say "Dude, what the f*** are you talking about?" and if I said that I'd have an explanation as to why I made such a claim. You, sir, have made such a claim and gotten defensive when people have called you out on it. It's only reasonable that I/we deserve some sort of explanation. If I recall correctly, your question was in regard to my statement about Vince McMahon allowing and even encouraging wrestlers to die young. Vince McMahon pushes large wrestlers. Whether that is in reference to someone with an unnatural amount of fat (eg. Yokozuna, dead at age 34) or someone with an unnatural amount of muscle (eg. Rick Rude, dead at age 41), their size and physique is an integral part of the gimmick. If a wrestler's success (and continued employment) is dependent upon a lifestyle that puts tremendous strain on the heart (eating to build and maintain weight or using steroids), the boss should be held responsible for creating the pressure. If Yokozuna had lost 300-400 pounds, would he still have had a job? Of course not. If Rick Rude had stopped abusing drugs and lost muscle mass, would he still have the same job security? Not a chance. Vince McMahon gave wrestlers the choice of unemployment or living a lifestyle that would kill them. If that isn't encouraging an early death, I don't know what is. Now, I understand that the Vince McMahon apologists will say that the only people who should be responsible for what wrestlers put into their bodies are the wrestlers themselves. Ultimately, the choice is theirs. But the consequence for not doing so came from Vince McMahon. As for getting Mr. McMahon and Vince McMahon confused, I don't watch WWF programming and have no idea what Mr. McMahon is all about. I know Vince McMahon as the man who launched a campaign against Ted Turner for: i. being racist because he said that black people's skin is brown...but had no problem tossing around the n-word (which, even in character, is unacceptable) ii. being sexist...but has no problem portraying women as "ho"s iii. being part of an illegal monopoly...but then created one of his own. I know Vince McMahon as the man who considers wrestlers "employees" when it prevents them from earning a sufficient living and "independent contractors" when it would cost him money otherwise. I know Vince McMahon as the man who sat back, used people for all they were worth, and then watched them die (and then, occasionally, paid for a funeral and made sure everyone on the planet knew that he kicked in a few thousand dollars). I know Vince McMahon as the person who publicized an intensive drug testing policy in 1994 and then, 12 years later, finally began a program that was a shadow of what had been promised. I truly hope that Vince McMahon is, as so many people believe, the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, the Great Pumpkin, and Hannah Montana all rolled up in one. I'm not holding my breath, though. Now, back on topic...what do you[/b] think of Vince McMahon?
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Mac
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Sigs/Avatars cannot exceed 1MB
Posts: 16,502
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Post by Mac on May 13, 2009 18:07:43 GMT -5
I think Vince McMahon had a vision to make wrestling more main stream than it always had been and he was the ONLY promotor at the time who had the balls to do what he did. Sometimes in life people who take the most chances gain the most. When someone can look an abyssmal failure in the eyes and say "I'll beat you" they can go on to great things.
When Vince McMahon had the idea to take wrestling from a UHF local station to station outfit and thrust it into the mainstream he did what nobody at the time or before him had the foresight to see. There were so many old promotors comfortable in doing things the way they had always been done. Guys were making good money and were set in their ways. Vince McMahon saw the entertainment genre that put food on his table as a child and put him through schools as something much bigger. Something on par with the MLB, NFL and even Hollywood.
Vince got a lot of crap for "Buying up all the talent" which is total bunk. He bought up all the GOOD talent and with remarkable accuracy thrust wrestlers from regional promotions into spots on the card where they more often than not acceled.
Hogan was immeditally made champ, guys like Valentine, Piper, Orndorf became great heels. Bobby Heenan became the heel of the decade. Vince McMahon hit far more than he missed and did for the most part make wrestling part of the mainstream. Audiences who if you watch old tapes were on ce filled with old men in button down shirts sitting with their hands folded were now filled with all ages. Wrestling was a "sport" as much as its ever been attracting a diverse crowd for ages 8-80 like the MLBs and NBA's of the day.
Vince re-invented the industry in the mid/late 90s by turning castoffs into household names. Steve Austin, The Rock, Mick Foley, NAO, a group of has beens and never will bes were transformed into names you could ask anyone on the street and they'd know who they are.
Vince McMahon made modern day wrestling everything it is today. Certainly he had help along the way, everyone whos been the best at what they do has, but Vince is and was the catalyst and to dismiss him for anything less than that is foolish.
Now all the greatness aside. I think if Vince McMahon were to be held under sodium pentathol he'd admit to more failures in his life than success and deep inside is unsatisfied with what hes done with his youth and facing his own mortality looks back with sadness.
WBF, XFL, WWE Films and the fact wrestling today isn't on Entertainment Tonight or TMZ and that his name is mentioned with the regularity of Stephen Speilberg or anyone whos considered to have mastered their "legitimate" genre. Vince's exploits outside of the squared circle have ranged from anywhere between moderate failures to blistering disasters. When Vince McMahon was young and saw the "Sports Entertainment" clay he was molding wasn't shaping into the global phenomenon he had wished it would he tried as many different ventures as he could to hit that magical stride. None succeeded.
Now the WWE, an organization Vince McMahon had said with great regularity is and always will be a family run organization is 35% owned by shareholders who Vince/Linda and the next generation of McMahons need to answer to is a stagnant shell of what it had been as little as 7 years ago. Im sure with proper motivation and more to gain Vince could strike gold for a third time before he rides off into the proverbial sunset. But its unlikely with a near monopoly and hundreds of millions of dollars going into the company owned by outside influences that it'll be forthcoming.
Success is an unquantifiable statistic. Im sure to most of us posting here we'd consider ourselves blessed and uber-succesful if we had made everything Vince McMahon had made. I just see Vince as a different individual who has never been totally satisfied with what hes accomplished and one whos not comfortable leaving the empire hes built in the hands of his offspring. When theres more on the horizon than there is in the rearview mirror drive and motivation are easy to come by. When everything you've done with your life is reduced to a video library and your companies stock trading for the day its tough to look foward to the next venture with wide eyed enthusiasm.
I think Vince McMahon when hes creating and hitting on something new the industry hasnt yet seen is happy. When he sees an industry that may be passing him by Im sure hes not as content as he'd like.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 13, 2009 18:53:10 GMT -5
I think Vince McMahon is a solid promoter who certainly does know the business, but I also think his booking skills leave much to be desired, given many of the ideas we've heard over the years came directly from him. Still, the guy knows how to push stars, always has.
That said, I don't have much regard for Vince McMahon the person, at least from what I know of him. It's not like he's evil incarnate, but the guy's done some pretty awful stuff, to which some might answer "Sure, but so has every other wrestling promoter"...to which I would answer, sure, but not every wrestling promoter has been in the position of power Vince is in, and Vince has not used that power enough to bring positive changes to the wrestling industry.
I never liked that he turned the tide in the Monday Night War by becoming a glorified smut peddler, and, again, I never liked that a guy with so much power and influence wouldn't use it for more positive things in what has traditionally been a dirty business.
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