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Post by JerryvonKramer on Oct 18, 2009 15:17:35 GMT -5
At the end of last month, Youngie posted Jon Molinaro's list of the Top 100 wrestlers of all time considering "professional success (including the number of titles a wrestler had won), importance to history, ability in the ring, drawing power and mainstream status achieved ... [and] those qualities that can't be measured in numbers, such as the ability to put on a great match each night" After discussing this list, we talked briefly about doing our own. 3 weeks later, here are the results. Thank you to everyone who voted. Some notes before the countdownAround 50 (W)rest regulars have sent in their lists of "the best 5 workers in wrestling history considering ability in the ring, on the mic, to work the crowd and overness". Points have been attributed to each wrestler as follows: 1st choice - 5 points 2nd choice - 4 points 3rd choice - 3 points 4th choice - 2 points 5th - 1 point The countdown will proceed in descending order and each wrestler will have a little bit written about them. Since my knowledge doesn't extend far beyond mainstream American wrestling, I have enlisted the aid of Youngie to write some of these on my behalf (generally for Japanese and indie wrestlers). Where he has written the comment I will denote it with [/Youngie]. Also, where possible, I will paste comments about workers that voters sent me in the PMs. Top 20 Notable Absentees who received no votes at all (alphabetical order): Giant Baba Bob Backlund Booker T Jack Brisco Dory Funk Jr. Terry Funk Verne Gagne Owen Hart Jeff Jarrett Kane Lex Luger Harley Race Buddy Rogers Jake Roberts Rick Rude The Sheik Sid Triple H Barry Windham The Ultimate Warrior Missed Out on the list, the following wrestlers received 1 point each (alaphabetical order): Mike Awesome Freddie Blassie Chris Daniels Goldberg Terry Gordy Frank Gotch Jerry Lawler Jushin Thunder Liger Mill Mascaras Paul Orndorff Alex Shelley Sgt. Slaughter Ray Stevens Super Dragon The Top 50 (51 actually) countdown will follow shortly ...
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Post by JerryvonKramer on Oct 18, 2009 16:41:44 GMT -5
With 2 points each ...51. Roderick StrongStrong currently competes in several independent promotions, most notably Ring of Honor, Full Impact Pro and Pro Wrestling Guerrilla. He is an awesome wrestler known for his bruising and brutal ring style. One to keep an eye on in the near future as Roderick has the potential to make it big.[/Youngie] 50. Mike QuackenbushQuackenbush is best known as the patriarch of the Chikara family and his work on the independent circuit, the latter of which has spanned for over 15 years. He is a great hig-flyer and very innovative wrestler. Quackenbush has also been dubbed the Master of a Thousand Holds. His life has included wrestling for several promotions, training others in mat skills and running Chikara as well as writing books, penning wrestling columns and hosting podcasts. [/Youngie] 49. Jerry LynnDuring the 1990's Jerry Lynn was one of the hottest commodities on the Indy scene. Able to wrestle various styles Lynn is what you may call a complete wrestler. Lynn joined ECW in 1997 and had classic bouts with Little Guido, Yoshihiro Tajiri, Steve Corino, Lance Storm and others. Lynn was one of the most exciting wrestlers that US fans witnessed for some time.[/Youngie] 48. Rey Mysterio Jr.In WCW during the mid-90s, Rey elevated high-flying cruiserweight wrestling to a new art. His matches against Dean Malenko and Eddie Guerrero are the stuff of IWC smark legend. Probably one of the most surprising WWF/E World champs of the past 25 years because they've traditionally preferred big men as champions in New York. That said, he has bulked up considerably in recent years and his work has become generally more "spot-driven". 47. Christian CageFew would have predicted from his days with The Brood that Christian would go on to have such a long and successful singles career. He's a great all-rounder in the mould of Chris Jericho and has the charisma to give a great comical and cocky heel performance. In the WWF/E he won the World Tag titles seven times with fellow Brood breakout star Edge as well as the IC title three times, he went on to great success in TNA, helping to establish it as a viable promotion and holding its world title on 2 occassions. 46. Dusty RhodesIt's hard to imagine that a visably overweight Texan with a lisp would become a 3-time NWA champion but that's exactly what Dusty Rhodes achieved. Although he was limited in the ring, Dusty had great star appeal, call it "the X factor", and he could get a crowd eating out of the palm of his hand, especially if he had a great heel to play against. He was also dynamite on the stick. In the mid-80s, as the blue collar hero who had overcome-the-odds he proved the perfect foil to Flair's flash-the-cash yuppie. However, I think it's fair to say that Dusty's biggest impact on wrestling probably came as a booker rather than a wrestler. And you know what they say: Dusty was always best when he was booking Dusty. Mac said: "5. Dusty Rhodes Ring Skill 5, Mic 9, Work Crowd 9, Overness 9" 45. Big Van VaderArguably the greatest big man of all time, which other 450+lber have you ever seen do a moonsault? Vader wasn't just agile, he was viscious, he was brutal, he worked stiff. After an incredibly successful spell with New Japan in the late 80s, in 1990 he signed with WCW where he played the part of the monster heel to perfection, had two great reigns as WCW world champ, and had a string of classic matches with Sting, Cactus Jack and Ric Flair, each notable for their high intensity and violence. For whatever reason the move to the WWF proved less successful for Vader and even with another stint in Japan with AJPW, he would never reach the heights he scaled in the early-mid 90s again.
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Post by Kick Your Face on Oct 18, 2009 17:17:07 GMT -5
Some surprising wrestlers there.
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Post by strykerdarksilence on Oct 18, 2009 17:48:04 GMT -5
None of my 5 so far.
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Post by Gopher Mod on Oct 18, 2009 17:57:39 GMT -5
None of my 5 have showed up yet, but I have a strong feeling that before the 2 voters come in I'm going to have 1 out of the running (and most of you should put your palm to your forehead for it).
Also: Roderick Strong is ahead of Baba? Race? Even Trips? What's going on here?
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Post by thwak is T.hawk on Oct 18, 2009 17:58:12 GMT -5
ok well superdragon was number 5 for me and quack was number 4.
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Post by craigdanbeaton on Oct 18, 2009 18:00:27 GMT -5
1. 2. 3. 4. Vader 5.
So I was the only person to vote for Vader then? Damn...
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Post by JerryvonKramer on Oct 18, 2009 18:01:07 GMT -5
Also: Roderick Strong is ahead of Baba? Race? Even Trips? What's going on here? Got to be honest, 50-odd people voting and not a single HHH vote kinda shocked me. Has his stock fallen so low?
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Post by Kick Your Face on Oct 18, 2009 18:02:11 GMT -5
Any clues for the next five?
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Post by Gopher Mod on Oct 18, 2009 18:09:13 GMT -5
Also: Roderick Strong is ahead of Baba? Race? Even Trips? What's going on here? Got to be honest, 50-odd people voting and not a single HHH vote kinda shocked me. Has his stock fallen so low? No. To be honest, a lot of people probably didn't vote for him because of the mark he has permanently left on today's wrestling scene: one marred with marriage into the McMahon's and his near death hold on the main belts for about 5 years (2000-2004).
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Post by JerryvonKramer on Oct 18, 2009 18:16:20 GMT -5
and his near death hold on the main belts for about 5 years (2000-2004). Fickle bunch the internet crowd, aren't we? Everyone agrees that one of the worst things about modern wrestling is too many title changes and meaningless titles, but anyone who does get a long reign or two gets this sort of treatment. The next few are coming up soon Cozy. Only clue I'll give is that there's one BIG name in it who you might have expected to be in the top 10.
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Post by Gopher Mod on Oct 18, 2009 18:32:01 GMT -5
and his near death hold on the main belts for about 5 years (2000-2004). Fickle bunch the internet crowd, aren't we? Everyone agrees that one of the worst things about modern wrestling is too many title changes and meaningless titles, but anyone who does get a long reign or two gets this sort of treatment. From what I take of this, it seems that people like mid-size title reigns; about 3-6 months, sometimes going up to 8. Then, the person loses the belt and doesn't win it again for anywhere from 6 months to 2 years. Essentially, they want the blood to be refreshed from time to time. Seeing Trips win the main title(s) 9 times from his original WWF Title in '99 isn't refreshing the blood. It's just reusing the same blood over and over again.
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Post by JerryvonKramer on Oct 18, 2009 19:33:43 GMT -5
with 3 points44. Dos CarasDos Caras has been called "the greatest heavyweight ever to come out of Mexico." He achieved his greatest success in Mexico's UWA where he carried the heavyweight Championship three times. Caras was easily one of the best and most innovative technical wrestlers ever seen. Caras was just awesome and demanded every fans full attention.[/Youngie] 43. CM PunkThe young, rising star CM Punk has moved up the ranks since his start in ROH. He is considered to be one of the three icons of ROH (along with Samoa Joe and Homicide). His professional wrestling gimmick is that of a follower of "straight edge" a culture which he follows in real life and of which he utilizes different aspects depending on his alignment. CM Punk is unique and like nothing we've seen before in wrestling and he has great mic skills. He is also a great role model for kids [/Youngie] Just to add: he's probably the only current generation WWE star who has really impressed me when I've seen him. His promos really seem like they are pushing the envelope to me, and yet they are almost "old school" insomuch as you can tell there's a bit of what he really thinks in there, as opposed to, say, a Randy Orton promo which just comes across as scripted and fake. 42. Chris BenoitA wrestling machine with workrate the likes of which we haven't seen before or since, and he was the cause de celebre of the emergent IWC smark community in the late 90s and early 00s. What a difference a few years can make, eh? I've a feeling he would have been ranked a lot higher had we run this in 2006. I think I'll leave it at that. 41. Arn Anderson"The Enforcer" of the Four Horsemen had it all: great in-ring psychology, awesome mic skills, and a sense of legitimacy at a time when gimmicks reigned supreme. The consumate thinking-man's wrestler, he made "working the leg" into an art-form. Arguably the greatest tag-team wrestler to have multiple partners. Got to love that spinebuster too. Always the first man into Wargames. 40. The Great MutaI've only really seen his work in WCW, but that was enough to see that this guy was/ is just incredible. His unique style wowed American audiences in the late 80s when he feuded with Sting over the TV Title in the NWA. Muta can do it all: mat wrestling, hardcore brawls, scientific matches, high-flying. I want to watch some more Muta matches. Neal Snow said: "Kenji Mutoh aka The Great Muta. Not knowing Japanese, I can't score him for promo skills, but everything else he does makes up for that. Amazing, amazing talent". 39. The UndertakerWell you'd have to say that this is suprisingly low for 'Taker. I've never liked him, from his debut as DiBiase's team-mate at Survivor Series right through the American badass years to now -- but even I have to pay him his dues. He's a great worker for a big man: Jim Ross thinks he's the best big man of all time (I'd say Vader). One thing about Undertaker is that whatever he's given -- and let's face it, it doesn't come much more difficult, gimmicky or hokey than a "dead man walking" -- he's made it work. And he's stayed with Vince through thick and thin, which is admirable, especially when so many who the WWF had made into stars jumped ship in the mid-90s. That winning streak at Wrestlemania is a legacy he should be proud of because things like that are rare in the transient world of pro wrestling. 38. Gorgeous GeorgeGood looking chap wasn't he? George was one of the true pioneers in wrestling: he wasn't the biggest or the strongest, but he was flamboyent and theatrical at time when most major wrestling stars were marketed as "legit" athletes. He showed what how a great gimmick could draw and get tremendous heat; famously, he'd receive 50% of the gate in the 50s. According to Wiki: Muhammed Ali, James Brown and Bob Dylan (!!) have all cited George as a key influence. You can get a sense of his showmanship from watching these old clips on youtube (just watch the ring entrances): Gorgeous George vs. Masked Marvel, Gorgeous George vs. Jesse James, Gorgeous George vs. Lanny Moquin. I mean that is truly awesome, talk about working a crowd! You can see so much Flair in there, you can see DiBiase, you can see Regal, you can see "The Narcassist" Lex Luger, you can even see Goldust and it's only 1951! A lot of the great heels owe something to George, the first great heel. Frank Gotch said: "Gorgeous George - Without George there is no Buddy Rogers, or Billy Graham. Without those men we don't have the two top guys on my list". 37. Antonio InokiInoki is one of the biggest icons in professional wrestling and MMA and is one of wrestling's all-time greatest competitors, teachers, and promoters. In 1976 he fought his famous "Boxer vs. Wrestler" match with World Boxing champion Mohammed Ali that gave pro wrestling an aura of legitimacy. There are few performers (in Japan or the U.S.) who achieved the level of success and respect that Inoki garnered. Frank Gotch said: "Antonio inoki - Easily Japans greatest pro-wrestler, and its criminal that WWE doesn't include him in their title history". 36. Lou TheszThesz wasn't just a great champion (he held the NWA title for 10 years), he was an innovator whose influence on the development of modern wrestling is incalcuable. There is a strong argument to be made for Thesz being the greatest wrestler of the 20th century, between 1948 and 1955 he went undefeated for 936 consecutive matches! If there's a record you can think of: Thesz is probably the guy who still holds it. For example, he's the only male wrestler ever to compete in 7 different decades (and consider: Flair has only wrestled in 4!). He also went over to Japan to compete against the legendary Rikidozan as well as Inoki and Giant Baba. I mean we argue about Hogan vs. Flair or Austin vs. Flair but when you read something like this, you start to understand what Thesz means to the history of wrestling. An incredible guy, why he's not in the WWE Hall of Fame I'll never know.
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Post by thwak is T.hawk on Oct 18, 2009 19:42:56 GMT -5
IT WAS HIS DAD!!!
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Post by Brother Ike: Thread Killer on Oct 18, 2009 20:14:05 GMT -5
Good list so far, None of my top five had showed up. Although now i Feel guilty for not voting for Terry Funk, Owen Hart, and Race.
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Post by Gopher Mod on Oct 18, 2009 20:18:18 GMT -5
There went my #5:
1. 2. 3. 4. 5. Antonio Inoki
Also, Alberto Banderas. HAR.
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biafra
El Dandy
Biafra Who?
Posts: 7,617
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Post by biafra on Oct 18, 2009 20:42:28 GMT -5
None of my 5 have showed up yet, but I have a strong feeling that before the 2 voters come in I'm going to have 1 out of the running (and most of you should put your palm to your forehead for it). Also: Roderick Strong is ahead of Baba? Race? Even Trips? What's going on here? I picked Roderick. Sue me.
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biafra
El Dandy
Biafra Who?
Posts: 7,617
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Post by biafra on Oct 18, 2009 20:44:29 GMT -5
And Punk.
2/5 of my list is up so far.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2009 21:07:52 GMT -5
I'm honestly surprised none of my five have shown up yet. I would have thought for sure my #5 would have been mentioned by now.
And a lot of good names I completely forgot about.
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Post by DSR on Oct 19, 2009 2:02:48 GMT -5
Mike Awesome and Rey Misterio Jr. were my #'s 4 and 5, respectively. My top 3 haven't shown up yet, though.
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