|
Post by JerryvonKramer on Nov 3, 2009 17:25:34 GMT -5
And on 15 points, from Calgary, Alberta ... 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 1 ...10. Chris JerichoJericho has arguably been the most successful of the generation of wrestlers who made their name on the WCW undercard during the Monday Night Wars after having made the jump from ECW. As one might expect considering the talent involved, he had great matches against the likes of Juventud Guerrerra, Dean Malenko and Rey Mysterio Jr. His move to the WWF in 1999 proved to be very successful and was a clear indication that the Monday Night Wars would go WWF's way as Jericho was plainly a rising star. His blend of sheer charisma and in-ring ability would lead him to winning practically every title there is to win, including becoming the first WWF Undisputed World Champ in 2001 -- effectively, depending on which way you look at it, unifying the two most important World titles in American wrestling history. Jericho makes a great heel or face, but he is best utilised as a smarmy, calculating heel because he's one of the few pros left in the game who isn't scared of real heel heat.
|
|
|
Post by Cretinous Humanoid on Nov 3, 2009 23:02:23 GMT -5
My top 2 are off the board.
1. Nick Bockwinkel 2. Chris Jericho 3. 4. 5.
|
|
|
Post by Brother Ike: Thread Killer on Nov 4, 2009 19:04:48 GMT -5
Winding tine with some interesting choices, cant wait to see who number one is
1.He might not win any polls here, but he is number 1 on my list 2.Came back from a career ending injury to have more MOTY candidates than anyone else in current WWE 3.Kenta Kobashi 4.Ricky Steamboat 5. Was thinking of Hogan, but I figured he would win anyway So I went with his long time freind/Rival
|
|
|
Post by JerryvonKramer on Nov 5, 2009 16:25:30 GMT -5
And on 16 points, he is the highest placed Japanese wrestler in this list, it's...9. Jumbo TsurutaJumbo Tsuruta is a Puroresu legend and is held in extremely high regard by his fans. He wrestled over 3,000 matches in Japan in a career lasting 26 years. He held all the major international titles. Jumbo like Ric flair is known for being a "broomstick worker" and carrying lesser opponents to great matches. He was a totally unselfish wrestler who always put the other wrestler first. His highest rated work came in the last five years of his career feuding with Tenryu and Misawa. Tsuruta was arguably the best wrestler in the world during the 1980s. [/Youngie]
|
|
|
Post by JerryvonKramer on Nov 5, 2009 16:58:20 GMT -5
And on 24 points, weighing 240lbs, from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania ... wait for it ...8. Kurt AngleKurt Angle is an amazing athlete, as you'd expect any Olympic gold medalist would be. However, his initial run with WWF was arguably revolutionary, not because he was a gold medalist but because he effectively turned traditional wrestling logic on its head and did the seemingly impossible: he turned an "all-american hero" character into a heel. Here was a guy who had actually won a gold medal and who preached nothing but being good and taking your vitamins -- the very same principles on which the Hulkamania and the WWF had built its legacy -- and people booed him. In the attitude era, fans cheered for foul-mouthed bullies like Austin and booed people with genuine "Intensity, Integrity, and Intelligence". Angle would go on to win every major WWF title within a year. And his career since then has consisted largely of world titles and ***** matches with any half decent opponent (Benoit, Lesner, Michaels, the list goes on and on). But he isn't just a wrestling machine, he has great charisma and he gives great promos. He has a number of different characters or "modes" (e.g. sacrimonious [3Is], cocky ["it's true"], insecure [see the awesome, funny and underrated Austin/ McMahon/ Angle storyline circa 2001 -- one of the most fun angles wrestling has ever had imo], intense [when he first started wearing the gumshield vs. Lesner circa 2003], and heel evil genius [see main event mafia]). He is really one of the all-time great wrestling talents both in and out of the ring.
|
|
|
Post by hbk4ever09 on Nov 5, 2009 17:13:46 GMT -5
still all in!!
|
|
|
Post by strykerdarksilence on Nov 5, 2009 17:17:19 GMT -5
Angle is a great wrestler, but way too high in my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by JerryvonKramer on Nov 5, 2009 17:35:26 GMT -5
Angle is a great wrestler, but way too high in my opinion. Who do you think on the list who has come before should come above him?
|
|
|
Post by strykerdarksilence on Nov 5, 2009 17:47:50 GMT -5
Angle is a great wrestler, but way too high in my opinion. Who do you think on the list who has come before should come above him? Tsuruta, Jericho, Sting, Ted, Kobashi, Foley, Bockwinkel, Misawa, Hall, Piper, Tenryu, Hennig, Santo, Dynamite, Cena, Rikidozan, Andre, Steamboat, Gotch, Thesz, Inoki, George, Undertaker, Muta, Anderson, Dos Caras, Vader, Dusty and possibly Eddy and Heenan as I go back through the list. Angle is a tremendous worker, no doubt, but they all have far greater contributions, achievements and importance to the industry.
|
|
|
Post by tehoh1 on Nov 5, 2009 17:59:56 GMT -5
Can I make a request?
Would it be a a hassle to have the descriptions of the wrestler's career contain just career highlights, why people think they're good, and that's it? I don't want to read personal opinions on how the current era sucks or Austin shouldn't be cheered over Angle because he was a "foul-mouthed bully."
Thank you.
|
|
|
Post by strykerdarksilence on Nov 5, 2009 18:05:52 GMT -5
Can I make a request? Would it be a a hassle to have the descriptions of the wrestler's career contain just career highlights, why people think they're good, and that's it? I don't want to read personal opinions on how the current era sucks or Austin shouldn't be cheered over Angle because he was a "foul-mouthed bully." Thank you. I am kind of inclined to agree here Jerry. It is your countdown of course, but the listing should just be that, and opinions in a seperate post, as it doesn't come over too well, especially when you have someone like myself who absolutely adores the current WWE product. Whether someone else likes it or not, even someone as easy to debate with as yourself, shouldn't factor in.
|
|
|
Post by JerryvonKramer on Nov 5, 2009 18:06:39 GMT -5
Can I make a request? Would it be a a hassle to have the descriptions of the wrestler's career contain just career highlights, why people think they're good, and that's it? I don't want to read personal opinions on how the current era sucks or Austin shouldn't be cheered over Angle because he was a "foul-mouthed bully." Thank you. The point about the Austin/ Angle thing is that Austin's character was a foul-mouthed bully and he was booked as a face and Angle's character was an American hero and he was booked as a heel. That was revolutionary. That's hardly an opinion. You've somewhat misinterpreted/ misunderstood what I was saying there. Also, absolutely not. I will write my descriptions as I see fit -- it's the only way. EDIT: As a concession though, I have taken out the line about today's era being "shoddy".
|
|
|
Post by Kick Your Face on Nov 5, 2009 19:17:36 GMT -5
Who do you think on the list who has come before should come above him? Tsuruta, Jericho, Sting, Ted, Kobashi, Foley, Bockwinkel, Misawa, Hall, Piper, Tenryu, Hennig, Santo, Dynamite, Cena, Rikidozan, Andre, Steamboat, Gotch, Thesz, Inoki, George, Undertaker, Muta, Anderson, Dos Caras, Vader, Dusty and possibly Eddy and Heenan as I go back through the list. Angle is a tremendous worker, no doubt, but they all have far greater contributions, achievements and importance to the industry. I'd like to add Kawada and even some who didn't make the list, including Hashimoto, Race, Robinson, Destroyer, Tiger Mask I (Sayama), Akiyama, Taue, Johnny Saint, Dr. Wagner, Jr., Hase, El Hijo Del Santo, Kensuke, Windham, Atlantis, Villano III, Steve Williams, Jack Brisco, Liger, Kanemoto, Sasuke, Otani, Nagata, Minoru Suzuki, Terry Funk, Tamura and Takada. I'd even say most of those wrestlers are/were better in the ring as well. I'm not doubting Angle's talent either. But I feel he is overrated for being an Olympic gold medalist.
|
|
|
Post by strykerdarksilence on Nov 5, 2009 19:31:20 GMT -5
Tsuruta, Jericho, Sting, Ted, Kobashi, Foley, Bockwinkel, Misawa, Hall, Piper, Tenryu, Hennig, Santo, Dynamite, Cena, Rikidozan, Andre, Steamboat, Gotch, Thesz, Inoki, George, Undertaker, Muta, Anderson, Dos Caras, Vader, Dusty and possibly Eddy and Heenan as I go back through the list. Angle is a tremendous worker, no doubt, but they all have far greater contributions, achievements and importance to the industry. I'd like to add Kawada and even some who didn't make the list, including Hashimoto, Race, Robinson, Destroyer, Tiger Mask I (Sayama), Akiyama, Taue, Johnny Saint, Dr. Wagner, Jr., Hase, El Hijo Del Santo, Kensuke, Windham, Atlantis, Villano III, Steve Williams, Jack Brisco, Liger, Kanemoto, Sasuke, Otani, Nagata, Minoru Suzuki, Terry Funk, Tamura and Takada. I'd even say most of those wrestlers are/were better in the ring as well. I'm not doubting Angle's talent either. But I feel he is overrated for being an Olympic gold medalist. I could throw in many more too, I just kept it to the list because I know if I ran off names like that I'd be coming back every 5 minutes and adding some more ;D If I were doing 100 greatest of all time from a personal perspective, Angle might be in the 80s. No slur on his ability, just doing the "how big is the hole if you remove everything the guy has done" test, all you would essentially lose is some very good matches, but none of real importance.
|
|
|
Post by JerryvonKramer on Nov 5, 2009 19:34:54 GMT -5
The "how big is the hole if you remove everything the guy has done" test -- this was exactly the point I was trying to make in that Austin vs. Flair thread for historical importance. The Flair sized hole is just very very big.
Incidentally though, do you really think Race or Funk or Dr. Death or Brisco were better in the ring than Angle?
This is kinda what I was trying to get at with that comment you guys wanted me to delete: if Angle had been around 10-20 years earlier he'd be thought of as an all-time great. But he's a victim of being around at the wrong time.
|
|
|
Post by simplydurhamcalling on Nov 5, 2009 19:39:07 GMT -5
1. 2. 3. 4. Kurt Angle 5. Chris Jericho
|
|
|
Post by strykerdarksilence on Nov 5, 2009 19:40:30 GMT -5
The "how big is the hole if you remove everything the guy has done" test -- this was exactly the point I was trying to make in that Austin vs. Flair thread for historical importance. The Flair sized hole is just very very big. Incidentally though, do you really think Race or Funk or Dr. Death or Brisco were better in the ring than Angle? This is kinda what I was trying to get at with that comment you guys wanted me to delete: if Angle had been around 10-20 years earlier he'd be thought of as an all-time great. But he's a victim of being around at the wrong time. Race and Funk most definately better all round. Doc on a par. Remove Flair and you lose one half of every major 1980s angle that isn't Hogan/Andre or Hogan/Piper, and the guy virtually every wrestler idolises as a performer.
|
|
|
Post by JerryvonKramer on Nov 5, 2009 19:42:21 GMT -5
Remove Flair and you lose one half of every major 1980s angle that isn't Hogan/Andre or Hogan/Piper, and the guy virtually every wrestler idolises as a performer. Dude, where were you when we needed you?
|
|
|
Post by strykerdarksilence on Nov 5, 2009 19:47:04 GMT -5
I tend to avoid threads like that because people have set opinions (myself included) for the most part, and the debate doesn't go anywhere.
Austin vs Flair, you can't compare really outside of personal preference. Austin was bigger, Flair was more important, but it was for totally different reasons. By all means quote me on Flair though. ;D
|
|
Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
Posts: 18,700
|
Post by Square on Nov 5, 2009 19:47:55 GMT -5
The "how big is the hole if you remove everything the guy has done" test -- this was exactly the point I was trying to make in that Austin vs. Flair thread for historical importance. The Flair sized hole is just very very big. Incidentally though, do you really think Race or Funk or Dr. Death or Brisco were better in the ring than Angle? This is kinda what I was trying to get at with that comment you guys wanted me to delete: if Angle had been around 10-20 years earlier he'd be thought of as an all-time great. But he's a victim of being around at the wrong time. Race and Funk most definately better all round. Doc on a par. Remove Flair and you lose one half of every major 1980s angle that isn't Hogan/Andre or Hogan/Piper, and the guy virtually every wrestler idolises as a performer. But more heels could have gotten the spot in the main event, creating more stars and more fueds. My personal opinion is that Flair and Hogan was the cause for the fall in wrestling in the early 90s because they were so heavily used and focused upon that no one else was rarely given the chance to shine in thier roles
|
|