londonfan
Bubba Ho-Tep
I mark for Paul London/Paul London action figures
Posts: 530
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Post by londonfan on Jul 2, 2009 14:34:58 GMT -5
I can't believe some of these uber long posts about him in this thread.
What is there really to say about him? He never puts anyone over, he refuses to relinquish his spot on the top of the card no matter how boring and stale he is, all of his matches are the same. They all involve 95% punches, kicks, and throwing people into stuff, he takes no bumps, and he can't even do his own f***ing finisher the right way anymore.
He sucks.
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Post by britishbulldog on Jul 2, 2009 15:31:49 GMT -5
One of the big problems with WWE in general is creating new stars. Austin and ROck where much bigger than HHH, but neither lasted very long. After that you were left with a gaping hole. Every time that they start to build someone up they screw it up,quit, or get busted for something stuipid. I for one would rathe see HHH than Orton or Batista. Should MVP had gone over HHH on Raw. Not at this point. Until VInce decides HE is done with this horrid HHH/Orton fued we all know how its going to go. I hope Cena wins on Raw and aleast give us a small break till we get HIAC at SS.
Until they take an approach on Raw like Smackdown and ECW, it's not going to matter who is on top everyone will get pissed and bitch because there is never any movement on the card.
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Post by strykerdarksilence on Jul 2, 2009 16:56:06 GMT -5
I do feel like I'm one of the only Triple H fans left on this board. I've always rated him higher than Austin promo-wise, and most definately better in the ring than him post-injury. Two Man Powertrip was Hunter making Austin a favourite of mine for a short time. As for Rock? Well I know it's unpopular, but the guy should have never touched even the IC title, and it was only Hunter who carried him to watchable matches.
He still works great matches (LMS on RAW only a week ago, Undertaker on Smackdown, his matches with Jeff), gets good reactions and has been their solid 'go-to' guy for years. Is he going to draw huge money? Not like he did in 99-00, no, because the business is in a lull, but he and Cena are a damn sight more reliable than the attitude era post-Shawn's injury and pre-Hunter's big 99 push.
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Post by TRUTH TELLER on Jul 2, 2009 17:17:11 GMT -5
to say things like "He's just so stale now," when he's clearly one of the most cheered people on the roster, it's just applying personal preference against established fact. If he was stale his reactions would be dying off. I'd agree with you if he hadn't wrestled in unaffected bored silence in the main event of the biggest show of the year, again in the rematch in England and been sung off WWE TV during a serious injury angle. That's the very definition of stale in wrestling. If you do not derive the usual passion from a fanbase once rabid for you unconditionally, you're stale. Plus, as the focal point he doesn't draw PPV buyrates or TV ratings. I don't blame him for this, but the fact remains, there is no justification for him being the focal point anymore. Loud pops for an entrance don’t pay the bills. If so, RVD should have been WWE Champion in 2001-2003 regardless of what management thought of him. I just don’t understand how some people just cannot separate liking a wrestler from obvious poor business practices. Obvious mistakes shouldn't be ignored just because he's your favorite wrestler. No offense, but that's how most of the defenses in this thread have come across. You don't want it to be true (whether it is or not) so you keep just saying it isn't without supplying any rational explanation or defense. Yelling "MVP wasn't buried!" and then not explaining how losing clean to an injured man helped his progress, and bettred his career, is worthless. If this was a court case, the prosecution would have like 5 days worth of material, whilst your defense would consist of "It's not true, your honor," before sitting down. Like I said earlier, if a fresh MVP cannot beat an "injured" HHH at his most vulnerable, when can he beat him without it being a fluke? There's no defense for that. None. Yet people keep trying to say there is, because they obviously don't care about MVP's upward mobility I guess. It was stupid to book it. That’s all there is to it. I’d love to hear you at least concede that. Because there is no upside to it.
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
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Posts: 5,649
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Post by spagett on Jul 2, 2009 17:29:14 GMT -5
I do feel like I'm one of the only Triple H fans left on this board. I've always rated him higher than Austin promo-wise, and most definately better in the ring than him post-injury. Two Man Powertrip was Hunter making Austin a favourite of mine for a short time. As for Rock? Well I know it's unpopular, but the guy should have never touched even the IC title, and it was only Hunter who carried him to watchable matches. He still works great matches (LMS on RAW only a week ago, Undertaker on Smackdown, his matches with Jeff), gets good reactions and has been their solid 'go-to' guy for years. Is he going to draw huge money? Not like he did in 99-00, no, because the business is in a lull, but he and Cena are a damn sight more reliable than the attitude era post-Shawn's injury and pre-Hunter's big 99 push. Wow. There is a difference between being a fan of Triple H and deluding yourself into thinking Triple H was the reason for the huge boom of the attitude era. The LMS match the other week was in no way great. It was average to good, nothing special. As for The Rock should never have won the IC title I am honestly speechless. Why is the business in a lull? Oh yeah because The Rock and Austin left and we were left with Triple H.
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Post by Gerard Gerard on Jul 2, 2009 17:39:55 GMT -5
well he can't be drawing that little attention or getting so stale as this thread has gone on to prove. WWE is well aware of our kind of fanbase, its regard for the likes of Hunter and you know? he's kept in that spot in the hopes that we will toss over our hard earned money to see him get toppled, perfect philosophy in their view: play different sectors of the fanbase off one another. whether it be right or wrong but yeah, i like the concept of hunter and such but the execution just doesn't do it for me, the looks cool and when he's doing the wisecracking ass thing he's a genuinely interesting character but the whole he-man/thor/overaged teenager lame as limp langers pranky thing bores the tears out of me.
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Post by strykerdarksilence on Jul 2, 2009 17:41:30 GMT -5
I do feel like I'm one of the only Triple H fans left on this board. I've always rated him higher than Austin promo-wise, and most definately better in the ring than him post-injury. Two Man Powertrip was Hunter making Austin a favourite of mine for a short time. As for Rock? Well I know it's unpopular, but the guy should have never touched even the IC title, and it was only Hunter who carried him to watchable matches. He still works great matches (LMS on RAW only a week ago, Undertaker on Smackdown, his matches with Jeff), gets good reactions and has been their solid 'go-to' guy for years. Is he going to draw huge money? Not like he did in 99-00, no, because the business is in a lull, but he and Cena are a damn sight more reliable than the attitude era post-Shawn's injury and pre-Hunter's big 99 push. Wow. There is a difference between being a fan of Triple H and deluding yourself into thinking Triple H was the reason for the huge boom of the attitude era. The LMS match the other week was in no way great. It was average to good, nothing special. As for The Rock should never have won the IC title I am honestly speechless. Why is the business in a lull? Oh yeah because The Rock and Austin left and we were left with Triple H. Did I say he was the reason for the boom? No. It was a combination of many, many things. I don't deny the Rock and Austin were bigger stars in their time than Hunter. I just didn't enjoy their work. It's a subjective thing. I don't understand why people preferred them, but they did. I enjoyed Bret, Shawn and Hunter and the tag division, aside from the Outlaws (another attitude era thing I don't 'get'. Horrible, horrible workers and annoying as hell characters). Austin I liked in WCW and pre-injury his ring work was great. I just rate Hunter higher. Rock I never, EVER enjoyed. The only time he was remotely interesting to me was as the corporate heel, because he had the McMahons around him. I hated (muted or changed the channel) during his promos, and enjoyed a very small proportion of his matches, when he was being carried in the ring by far superior workers. The lull started while Rock and Austin were there, in the same way the previous lull started while Hogan was still there. The LMS match was my favourite match of the year so far. Why? Because they slowed it down and told a story through the match. It was Flair/Wahoo, Piper/Snuka. It was physical and intense, and both guys worked their asses off. It's subjective as I say. People of course can hate Triple H as much as they like, that's their call. Just don't tell me I'm wrong to like something or someone because they don't appeall to you in the same way.
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Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
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Posts: 43,870
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Post by Krimzon on Jul 2, 2009 17:44:59 GMT -5
Wow. There is a difference between being a fan of Triple H and deluding yourself into thinking Triple H was the reason for the huge boom of the attitude era. The LMS match the other week was in no way great. It was average to good, nothing special. As for The Rock should never have won the IC title I am honestly speechless. Why is the business in a lull? Oh yeah because The Rock and Austin left and we were left with Triple H. Did I say he was the reason for the boom? No. It was a combination of many, many things. I don't deny the Rock and Austin were bigger stars in their time than Hunter. I just didn't enjoy their work. It's a subjective thing. I don't understand why people preferred them, but they did. I enjoyed Bret, Shawn and Hunter and the tag division, aside from the Outlaws (another attitude era thing I don't 'get'. Horrible, horrible workers and annoying as hell characters). Austin I liked in WCW and pre-injury his ring work was great. I just rate Hunter higher. Rock I never, EVER enjoyed. The only time he was remotely interesting to me was as the corporate heel, because he had the McMahons around him. I hated (muted or changed the channel) during his promos, and enjoyed a very small proportion of his matches, when he was being carried in the ring by far superior workers. The lull started while Rock and Austin were there, in the same way the previous lull started while Hogan was still there. The LMS match was my favourite match of the year so far. Why? Because they slowed it down and told a story through the match. It was Flair/Wahoo, Piper/Snuka. It was physical and intense, and both guys worked their asses off. It's subjective as I say. People of course can hate Triple H as much as they like, that's their call. Just don't tell me I'm wrong to like something or someone because they don't appeall to you in the same way. If this doesn't prove that "different strokes for different folks" rings true, nothing will.
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Post by strykerdarksilence on Jul 2, 2009 17:46:42 GMT -5
Did I say he was the reason for the boom? No. It was a combination of many, many things. I don't deny the Rock and Austin were bigger stars in their time than Hunter. I just didn't enjoy their work. It's a subjective thing. I don't understand why people preferred them, but they did. I enjoyed Bret, Shawn and Hunter and the tag division, aside from the Outlaws (another attitude era thing I don't 'get'. Horrible, horrible workers and annoying as hell characters). Austin I liked in WCW and pre-injury his ring work was great. I just rate Hunter higher. Rock I never, EVER enjoyed. The only time he was remotely interesting to me was as the corporate heel, because he had the McMahons around him. I hated (muted or changed the channel) during his promos, and enjoyed a very small proportion of his matches, when he was being carried in the ring by far superior workers. The lull started while Rock and Austin were there, in the same way the previous lull started while Hogan was still there. The LMS match was my favourite match of the year so far. Why? Because they slowed it down and told a story through the match. It was Flair/Wahoo, Piper/Snuka. It was physical and intense, and both guys worked their asses off. It's subjective as I say. People of course can hate Triple H as much as they like, that's their call. Just don't tell me I'm wrong to like something or someone because they don't appeall to you in the same way. If this doesn't prove that "different strokes for different folks" rings true, nothing will. Thank you my Krimzonny chum Oh yeah, awesome sig too.
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
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Posts: 5,649
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Post by spagett on Jul 2, 2009 17:51:02 GMT -5
Wow. There is a difference between being a fan of Triple H and deluding yourself into thinking Triple H was the reason for the huge boom of the attitude era. The LMS match the other week was in no way great. It was average to good, nothing special. As for The Rock should never have won the IC title I am honestly speechless. Why is the business in a lull? Oh yeah because The Rock and Austin left and we were left with Triple H. Did I say he was the reason for the boom? No. It was a combination of many, many things. I don't deny the Rock and Austin were bigger stars in their time than Hunter. I just didn't enjoy their work. It's a subjective thing. I don't understand why people preferred them, but they did. I enjoyed Bret, Shawn and Hunter and the tag division, aside from the Outlaws (another attitude era thing I don't 'get'. Horrible, horrible workers and annoying as hell characters). Austin I liked in WCW and pre-injury his ring work was great. I just rate Hunter higher. Rock I never, EVER enjoyed. The only time he was remotely interesting to me was as the corporate heel, because he had the McMahons around him. I hated (muted or changed the channel) during his promos, and enjoyed a very small proportion of his matches, when he was being carried in the ring by far superior workers. The lull started while Rock and Austin were there, in the same way the previous lull started while Hogan was still there. The LMS match was my favourite match of the year so far. Why? Because they slowed it down and told a story through the match. It was Flair/Wahoo, Piper/Snuka. It was physical and intense, and both guys worked their asses off. It's subjective as I say. People of course can hate Triple H as much as they like, that's their call. Just don't tell me I'm wrong to like something or someone because they don't appeall to you in the same way. If you hate The Rock then fine I don't agree with you at all but it is your opinion but to say that one of the top 2 or 3 icons of all time shouldn't have even won the IC title is deluded. Do you not think the fact he became wildly successful and was along with Austin the major factor in bringing the WWE into the mainstream means that it was probably a good idea to give Rocky the belt? I find Triple H boring on the mic, robotic in the ring and think that he is probably the most overpushed wrestler of all time but even I wouldn't say he should never have even been IC Champion. The LMS in my opinion was a meh paint by numbers kind of a match. Nothing memorable happened and the ending was completely obvious from the moment the bell rang. When you add in the fact it was match 34594 in the most boring feud of all time it makes for a match I don't consider great. You and I seem to have completely different views about wrestling, I seem to recall you saying Cena was in your opinion the 5th greatest wrestler of all time, so I don't expect you to agree with me in any way. Which is fair enough.
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Post by strykerdarksilence on Jul 2, 2009 17:56:59 GMT -5
Did I say he was the reason for the boom? No. It was a combination of many, many things. I don't deny the Rock and Austin were bigger stars in their time than Hunter. I just didn't enjoy their work. It's a subjective thing. I don't understand why people preferred them, but they did. I enjoyed Bret, Shawn and Hunter and the tag division, aside from the Outlaws (another attitude era thing I don't 'get'. Horrible, horrible workers and annoying as hell characters). Austin I liked in WCW and pre-injury his ring work was great. I just rate Hunter higher. Rock I never, EVER enjoyed. The only time he was remotely interesting to me was as the corporate heel, because he had the McMahons around him. I hated (muted or changed the channel) during his promos, and enjoyed a very small proportion of his matches, when he was being carried in the ring by far superior workers. The lull started while Rock and Austin were there, in the same way the previous lull started while Hogan was still there. The LMS match was my favourite match of the year so far. Why? Because they slowed it down and told a story through the match. It was Flair/Wahoo, Piper/Snuka. It was physical and intense, and both guys worked their asses off. It's subjective as I say. People of course can hate Triple H as much as they like, that's their call. Just don't tell me I'm wrong to like something or someone because they don't appeall to you in the same way. If you hate The Rock then fine I don't agree with you at all but it is your opinion but to say that one of the top 2 or 3 icons of all time shouldn't have even won the IC title is deluded. Do you not think the fact he became wildly successful and was along with Austin the major factor in bringing the WWE into the mainstream means that it was probably a good idea to give Rocky the belt? I find Triple H boring on the mic, robotic in the ring and think that he is probably the most overpushed wrestler of all time but even I wouldn't say he should never have even been IC Champion. The LMS in my opinion was a meh paint by numbers kind of a match. Nothing memorable happened and the ending was completely obvious from the moment the bell rang. When you add in the fact it was match 34594 in the most boring feud of all time it makes for a match I don't consider great. You and I seem to have completely different views about wrestling, I seem to recall you saying Cena was in your opinion the 5th greatest wrestler of all time, so I don't expect you to agree with me in any way. Which is fair enough. Cena is indeed my 5th favourite wrestler of all time, after Piper, Flair, Sting and Bret. To expand briefly on my opinion on The Rock, over or not, the guy was flat out horrible in the ring unless he had someone very solid at least with him. If you can't have a match that draws me in, I don't want to see you on tv. As far as his promos, I sum them up in three words "catchphrases and burials". But again, that's just me.
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
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Posts: 5,649
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Post by spagett on Jul 2, 2009 18:01:35 GMT -5
If you hate The Rock then fine I don't agree with you at all but it is your opinion but to say that one of the top 2 or 3 icons of all time shouldn't have even won the IC title is deluded. Do you not think the fact he became wildly successful and was along with Austin the major factor in bringing the WWE into the mainstream means that it was probably a good idea to give Rocky the belt? I find Triple H boring on the mic, robotic in the ring and think that he is probably the most overpushed wrestler of all time but even I wouldn't say he should never have even been IC Champion. The LMS in my opinion was a meh paint by numbers kind of a match. Nothing memorable happened and the ending was completely obvious from the moment the bell rang. When you add in the fact it was match 34594 in the most boring feud of all time it makes for a match I don't consider great. You and I seem to have completely different views about wrestling, I seem to recall you saying Cena was in your opinion the 5th greatest wrestler of all time, so I don't expect you to agree with me in any way. Which is fair enough. Cena is indeed my 5th favourite wrestler of all time, after Piper, Flair, Sting and Bret. To expand briefly on my opinion on The Rock, over or not, the guy was flat out horrible in the ring unless he had someone very solid at least with him. If you can't have a match that draws me in, I don't want to see you on tv. As far as his promos, I sum them up in three words "catchphrases and burials". But again, that's just me. Well I like Bret. The others you mentioned not so much. He was in no way flat out horrible. He was no Bret Hart but he as athletic, a great seller and always got the crowd emotionally involved. He certainly never wrestled to silence like Triple H has in TWO Wrestlemania main events. You are going to accuse The Rock of burying people whilst trying to defend Triple H? The Rock was the most selfless main eventer of all time. He used to make anyone he was in the ring with look a threat whether it was Stone Cold or Al Snow. That isn't even including the people he put over. If you honestly think The Rock buried people you are in a minority of one.
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Post by strykerdarksilence on Jul 2, 2009 18:19:33 GMT -5
On the mic he buried them, killing any interest I may have had in the match. Triple H in the last few years has put over Benoit, Shelton (who blew it by being beyond dull), Batista, Orton (who has continued to look like a more vicious yet cowardly heel the entire feud with Hunter, each time he is put down, coming back with something even more heelish, a la JBL's title run), Cena and Jeff. You may feel otherwise, to me, their feuds with Hunter elevated those guys.
How many people did the Rock actually make? He lay down for people sure, but in the ring he never made someone look like a superstar or potential world champion for the first time.
And he always looked awkward in the ring, jerky. Nothing flowed, everything was oversold and delayed as I saw it.
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
Great Job!
Posts: 5,649
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Post by spagett on Jul 2, 2009 18:27:52 GMT -5
On the mic he buried them, killing any interest I may have had in the match. Triple H in the last few years has put over Benoit, Shelton (who blew it by being beyond dull), Batista, Orton (who has continued to look like a more vicious yet cowardly heel the entire feud with Hunter, each time he is put down, coming back with something even more heelish, a la JBL's title run), Cena and Jeff. You may feel otherwise, to me, their feuds with Hunter elevated those guys. How many people did the Rock actually make? He lay down for people sure, but in the ring he never made someone look like a superstar or potential world champion for the first time. And he always looked awkward in the ring, jerky. Nothing flowed, everything was oversold and delayed as I saw it. There is no point in arguing with you because it is clear you seem to be my absolute opposite in terms of a wrestling fan. You must have missed The Rock losing 100% clean whilst still being a babyface to Brock Lesner at Summerslam 2002 so that he could win his first title. You saying The Rock never put anyone over is just factually wrong, nothing to do with opinions.
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Post by strykerdarksilence on Jul 2, 2009 18:33:32 GMT -5
I agree we should leave it as we aren't going to agree.
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Post by Sero on Jul 2, 2009 18:34:15 GMT -5
On the mic he buried them, killing any interest I may have had in the match. Triple H in the last few years has put over Benoit, Shelton (who blew it by being beyond dull), Batista, Orton (who has continued to look like a more vicious yet cowardly heel the entire feud with Hunter, each time he is put down, coming back with something even more heelish, a la JBL's title run), Cena and Jeff. You may feel otherwise, to me, their feuds with Hunter elevated those guys. How many people did the Rock actually make? He lay down for people sure, but in the ring he never made someone look like a superstar or potential world champion for the first time. And he always looked awkward in the ring, jerky. Nothing flowed, everything was oversold and delayed as I saw it. So I guess the time HHH completely burried john cena on the mic before their MAIN EVENT at WRESTLEMANIA was just a figment of my imagination...
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Post by strykerdarksilence on Jul 2, 2009 18:36:18 GMT -5
On the mic he buried them, killing any interest I may have had in the match. Triple H in the last few years has put over Benoit, Shelton (who blew it by being beyond dull), Batista, Orton (who has continued to look like a more vicious yet cowardly heel the entire feud with Hunter, each time he is put down, coming back with something even more heelish, a la JBL's title run), Cena and Jeff. You may feel otherwise, to me, their feuds with Hunter elevated those guys. How many people did the Rock actually make? He lay down for people sure, but in the ring he never made someone look like a superstar or potential world champion for the first time. And he always looked awkward in the ring, jerky. Nothing flowed, everything was oversold and delayed as I saw it. So I guess the time HHH completely burried john cena on the mic before their MAIN EVENT at WRESTLEMANIA was just a figment of my imagination... Cena got to speak back to him. It wasn't ended by a daft catchphrase. Cena retorted. Then beat him clean.
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Post by skiller on Jul 2, 2009 18:36:30 GMT -5
With all this talk of The Rock I just though of something.
Without the Rock, Mick Foley may have never become the name he is today. And without Mick Foley, Triple H may have never broken through to the very top ranks of the company when he did.
This is just how the world of wrestling seems to work.
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Post by Lionheart on Jul 2, 2009 18:37:43 GMT -5
To all the people defending the perpetual HHH push by saying "He still gets huge pops!", I would like to say the following:
That's why it only makes sense to have him put guys over.
That is all.
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Post by MGH on Jul 2, 2009 18:38:04 GMT -5
On the mic he buried them, killing any interest I may have had in the match. Triple H in the last few years has put over Benoit, Shelton (who blew it by being beyond dull), Batista, Orton (who has continued to look like a more vicious yet cowardly heel the entire feud with Hunter, each time he is put down, coming back with something even more heelish, a la JBL's title run), Cena and Jeff. You may feel otherwise, to me, their feuds with Hunter elevated those guys. How many people did the Rock actually make? He lay down for people sure, but in the ring he never made someone look like a superstar or potential world champion for the first time. And he always looked awkward in the ring, jerky. Nothing flowed, everything was oversold and delayed as I saw it. So I guess the time HHH completely burried john cena on the mic before their MAIN EVENT at WRESTLEMANIA was just a figment of my imagination... Before I get to this, Rock made Hurricane look better than anyone ever has, in terms of being relevant. On to the pre-Mania mic work with Cena. I don't think he buried him, I just think for someone who has such a wise mind for the business, he went along with a STUPID promo. WWE does this so much, HHH especially. It's mind boggling. Fine, shoot the guy down and tear him apart. Say he has no talent, he's a bum, he can't hang. Well, congrats, now you're lose/lose. You beat him, you were right. He'll never amount to anything, he's a loser, and fans should never bother getting invested in him. You lose to him, and you just lost to a supposed loser and made yourself look awful in the process. That style of promo makes me want to pull my hair out. Some of his promos with Shelton especially on Smackdown in 08 killed me.
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