Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Jul 2, 2009 19:42:55 GMT -5
Orton looks like a punk champion because in todays world of WWE, no heel can look strong ever. Except Triple H. And once again that little thing about H being the exception pops up.
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Post by SickFlipPiledriver on Jul 2, 2009 19:44:36 GMT -5
Don't respond to the rest of the post or anything.
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Post by SickFlipPiledriver on Jul 2, 2009 19:45:45 GMT -5
PS, Jack Swagger.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Jul 2, 2009 19:47:14 GMT -5
What about Swagger?
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Post by MGH on Jul 2, 2009 19:48:09 GMT -5
Beating Orton doesn't make Triple H look all that strong to me because Orton is and always has been a punk and a chump. Cena on the other hand has been spending the last few months getting his ass kicked by the strongest, "biggest" wrestler on the roster, but still coming back despite his massive injuries and 7000-watt searchlights and beating Show, FU'ing him, tapping him out, everything. He always looked strong against Edge despite losing. That's all incidental, though. The most important thing is how they look versus each other and when the two meet up, they're even so far. Though I would argue that Cena won the more important and memorable match. You're totally dancing around the point though. Cena takes loses when the storyline calls for it. Cena is booked to drop down the card on occasion so as not to wear out his welcome like 06-07 brought us. He has even feuds. He goes in title programs and LOSES. They don't book HHH for any of these things. Not in a while anyhow. The most solid loss I've seen him take in a long time was the one at Backlash where he got distracted and Orton took advantage. His lengthy 12th title reign ended because of an inadvertent chair shot and he was pinned by someone who came in a minute before the finish. Aside from that Orton win at Backlash, he is booked to live up to Terminator H and it's unnecessary and ridiculous.
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Post by SickFlipPiledriver on Jul 2, 2009 19:48:14 GMT -5
Jack Swagger is a heel who's booked strongly.
And I thought the topic at hand right now was who was booker stronger between HHH and Cena, not who took losses that they "should have" taken.
It doesn't really matter who else they've beaten, when you're comparing two wrestlers. No one is going to say "Well Triple H beat Orton and Cena didn't so Triple H is better than Cena." Because everyone knows Cena has soundly beaten Triple H in the past.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Jul 2, 2009 19:49:25 GMT -5
He was on ECW who's entire goal as a brand is to build guys up for the other shows....we'll see how strong he's booked on Raw.
This is a company philosophy that I really don't like it's lazy. You make all your heels chickenshits because no one will get behind a pussy. If you book a heel strong you risk fans cheering for him, and apparently they don't think their faces are strong enough to handle that.
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Post by MGH on Jul 2, 2009 19:56:02 GMT -5
So now apparently wins and losses don't even factor in to the strength of someone's booking.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,100
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Post by Mecca on Jul 2, 2009 19:57:01 GMT -5
So now apparently wins and losses don't even factor in to the strength of someone's booking. The thing you posted about H taking 2 losses, should open everyone's eyes to just how strong he's booked.
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Post by skiller on Jul 2, 2009 20:01:37 GMT -5
Jack Swagger is a heel who's booked strongly. And I thought the topic at hand right now was who was booker stronger between HHH and Cena, not who took losses that they "should have" taken. It doesn't really matter who else they've beaten, when you're comparing two wrestlers. No one is going to say "Well Triple H beat Orton and Cena didn't so Triple H is stronger than Cena." Orton was booked as a strong heel before his interactions with Shane and Trips took over. On SmackDown he was booked as a very capable heel who could go toe to toe with the Undertaker of all people. Then he moved back to RAW he quickly became a bland chickens*** heel that he still seems to be today. I wouldn't be surprised to see them change the booking of Jack during his time on RAW in a similar fashion. I mean even Brock Lesnar of all people became a pussy when he had his last heel run on SmackDown. But Triple H has always been booked in almost the same way for a long time now. He's always the most talented, badass in the company.
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Post by MGH on Jul 2, 2009 20:03:28 GMT -5
So now apparently wins and losses don't even factor in to the strength of someone's booking. The thing you posted about H taking 2 losses, should open everyone's eyes to just how strong he's booked. It's not just the wins and losses with them either. On the whole, yeah, I see HHH as being much more strongly booked in matches than Cena. I'm sorry, but from what I watch that's how I see it. Cena sells injuries by having Jericho dominate a 25 minute PPV main event and beating him only because Jericho got cocky and effed up. Cena sells injuries by having Miz dominating him in an "exhibition match" then being laid out by Big Show because he's just too hurt to fight back. HHH sells leg injuries & exhaustion from a brutal 2/3 falls match by beating MVP in a five minute match. I'm sorry, I just see it that way. HHH, wrongly IMO, is booked a lot stronger than Cena is.
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
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Post by spagett on Jul 2, 2009 20:05:56 GMT -5
He was on ECW who's entire goal as a brand is to build guys up for the other shows....we'll see how strong he's booked on Raw. This is a company philosophy that I really don't like it's lazy. You make all your heels chickens***s because no one will get behind a pussy. If you book a heel strong you risk fans cheering for him, and apparently they don't think their faces are strong enough to handle that. Exactly Triple H got over in 2000 by being a dominant heel who would beat huge babyfaces totally clean and was portrayed as being an equal to The Rock who was quite possibly having the most successful babyface year of all time. The only strong heel that is allowed is Triple H because you can be sure when he does turn heel in the near future he won't be playing the chickensh** heel. If they did do a double turn with Orton and Triple H you can be sure Triple H won't be booked like a cowardly tool the way Orton has been.
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Post by DamnYankee on Jul 2, 2009 20:10:31 GMT -5
I could care less of HHH's "politics" backstage and am more concerned with him continuing to put on great matches. Other than he really doesn't have great matches anymore. His Last Man Standing match last week on RAW against Orton was pretty damn good.
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Post by SickFlipPiledriver on Jul 2, 2009 20:12:47 GMT -5
You can't compare a 25-minute PPV main event to a five minute midcard RAW match, c'mon now. Still, Triple H won the same way; capitalizing on a mistake by MVP after getting his injuries exploited the entire match, and selling his injuries the whole time.
I honestly don't remember the Miz dominating that exhibition match. It wasn't even long enough to be dominated either way and Cena had the advantage when the match was stopped. What I do remember is despite looking like walking death, Cena always managed to beat the fully healthy Big Show, kayfabely the most dominant man on the roster. How does that not look stronger than beating Orton and his worthless cronies?
And before anyone says it Priceless/Legacy were garbage way before Triple H entered the picture.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Jul 2, 2009 20:14:45 GMT -5
I don't think many fans really believe Big Show is dominant, sure he's big but he loses all the time.
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Post by skiller on Jul 2, 2009 20:16:15 GMT -5
You can't compare a 25-minute PPV main event to a five minute midcard RAW match, c'mon now. Still, Triple H won the same way; capitalizing on a mistake by MVP after getting his injuries exploited the entire match, and selling his injuries the whole time. I honestly don't remember the Miz dominating that exhibition match. It wasn't even long enough to be dominated either way and Cena had the advantage when the match was stopped. What I do remember is despite looking like walking death, Cena always managed to beat the fully healthy Big Show, kayfabely the most dominant man on the roster. How does that not look stronger than beating Orton and his worthless cronies? That itself is a problem. No one's denying that. But we can't really make a comparison here since I don't think Trips has faced Show this year. (Correct me if I'm wrong) For comparison's sake, let's go back to 2007 (the year of John Cena if you will). Compare both guys matches against Umaga. They both won, but it always looked like Trips had it a lot easier than Cena did when dealing with the guy.
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
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Post by spagett on Jul 2, 2009 20:16:00 GMT -5
I Can't believe I am defending John Cena but here goes.
Last year Cena was beaten by JBL, Triple H and Batista 3 PPV's in a row. This was after he was pinned at Wrestlemania and Backlash.
Now would Triple H ever be booked to lose 3 ppvs in a row to 3 different people? He doesn't get beat 3 times in a year anymore nevermind 3 in a row.
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Post by DamnYankee on Jul 2, 2009 20:23:24 GMT -5
People only like to remember when HHH "buries" his opponent but seem to forget when he makes his opponent look very strong. I'm not even a big HHH fan but many seem to forget all the matches which he lost and even those he won where his opponent looked like a million bucks.
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The QC Loser
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Post by The QC Loser on Jul 2, 2009 20:23:56 GMT -5
I also don't recall MVP making a mistake in his match. He had HHH set up for his finisher then HHH suddenly reversed it and pedigreed him (and didn't sell his horribly destroyed leg). The end of the Bash bugged the hell out of me. It ended with your Champion and his stable laid out with HHH standing over them. Ok no problem if it weren't a stretcher match where you have to knock your opponent out to the point they can't roll off a stretcher.
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Post by mauled on Jul 3, 2009 1:57:05 GMT -5
One of the arguments used often is that its only a bunch of smarks on the internet who are against Triple H. Which in a way is fair enough on us on this board cause we are just discussing are opinions on the man. But that gets me wondering if thats the case that its just a few smarks why was Pat Patterson let go for a time for daring to suggest that the reason ratings were so low was because Triple H was champion??? Why is it that when most wrestlers leave the company they generally do not have a good word to say about Trips but at the same time will praise the Undertaker when they dont have too??? Why have wrestlers still within the company actually openly came out and said that Trips is only where he is cause of his connections when the know saying it could seriously risk there careers?
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