Jeff Mack
Don Corleone
Drago is mankind's greatest hero
Posts: 1,362
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Post by Jeff Mack on Mar 18, 2010 21:09:52 GMT -5
And he's apparently incapable of EVER improving? The company will never shift gears? The current crop of aging main eventers will never retire? I sometimes wish these boards were around in the mid 1990's just to see how many people would've declared Rocky Maivia, The Ringmaster and Hunter Hearst Helmsley as "mid-carders for life". Rough estimate: Lots of people. Lots. I really liked Hunter Hearst Helmsley as a character. If I recall correctly, he was a bit of a tweener and the character had some depth to it. The Ringmaster just sounded stupid and even the announcers referred to him as Steve Austin. You could at least tell he was solid in the ring. Rocky Maivia was really stupid. His matches were really stupid. I would have bet he'd crash and fail. So basically I only agree with you on one of them. As far as Kofi goes? I'll withhold judgment for now. I did think his push came too soon because one second he was a fun-loving Rastafarian and the next he was an intense, borderline stalker from Africa. Huh? That's some fine writin' there, Lou.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,089
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Post by Mozenrath on Mar 18, 2010 22:00:45 GMT -5
I still think the feud with Orton ruined him. Not because he was not getting a win over Orton, but right after that huge brawl they had, the crowd were actually turning on him. I still don't know why it happened but no matter how you put it, the crowd was siding with orton for the majority of the feud. That was probably more since the crowd has been yo-yoing on Orton for a while now, so his current face turn has been a long time coming.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Mar 18, 2010 22:13:30 GMT -5
I really liked Hunter Hearst Helmsley as a character. If I recall correctly, he was a bit of a tweener and the character had some depth to it. The Ringmaster just sounded stupid and even the announcers referred to him as Steve Austin. You could at least tell he was solid in the ring. You remember wrong about Hunter Hearst Helmsley. He was a purely arrogant heel, you thought he was better than everyone who because he came from an upper class background. His first introductory vignette featured him apparently waiting to be interviewed sitting in a fancy chair. He'd start to say something, stop and the camera would cut away. After the fourth time the first thing he said was along the lines of "oh, it's you." as though the audience wasn't who he was expecting and he couldn't be bothered. Austin being good in the ring, which I never saw, was why he was called the Ringmaster. And while it started out as a title it did quickly fall to a nickname.
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Post by Crazy Diamond on Mar 18, 2010 22:21:49 GMT -5
They push who they want to on Raw regardless of the fans. It's been the case for years and Kofi is yet another example of a wrestler who has been hurt by it. It does not help that the WWE refuses to push more than one black wrestler at a time.
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Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,089
Member is Online
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Post by Mozenrath on Mar 18, 2010 22:32:31 GMT -5
They push who they want to on Raw regardless of the fans. It's been the case for years and Kofi is yet another example of a wrestler who has been hurt by it. It does not help that the WWE refuses to push more than one black wrestler at a time. It's a land of milk in honey on TNA, with the Nasty Boys and Orlando Jordan, and Smackdown, with Drew McIntyre and Undertaker getting 100% fan support.
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smokinvokoun
Dennis Stamp
Daffy's Gonna Kill You
Posts: 4,770
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Post by smokinvokoun on Mar 19, 2010 0:11:32 GMT -5
I really hate the phrase "midcarder for life". It's a very misleading term because...
1. It says that it's bad to be a midcarder. Not everyone can be a main eventer. Some of the best wrestlers in WWE and many Hall of Famers never got to more than midcarders or upper midcarders at best. It should not be the end of the world. If Kofi ends up like that, it doesn't mean his career is a failure.
2. It's a term that makes it seem that the wrestler can NEVER improve or have a chance to get over. Also, remember when Eric Bischoff thought that Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio....Chris Benoit were "midcarders for life. Vince had them all at one time....and guess who won the Monday Night War. So to me...anyone who has the thought that a wrestler is a "midcarder for life" should NEVER EVER RUN A WRESTLING BUSINESS!!!
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Post by Jason on Mar 19, 2010 2:40:43 GMT -5
I really hate the phrase "midcarder for life". It's a very misleading term because... 1. It says that it's bad to be a midcarder. Not everyone can be a main eventer. Some of the best wrestlers in WWE and many Hall of Famers never got to more than midcarders or upper midcarders at best. It should not be the end of the world. If Kofi ends up like that, it doesn't mean his career is a failure. 2. It's a term that makes it seem that the wrestler can NEVER improve or have a chance to get over. Also, remember when Eric Bischoff thought that Steve Austin, Mick Foley, Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Rey Mysterio....Chris Benoit were "midcarders for life. Vince had them all at one time....and guess who won the Monday Night War. So to me...anyone who has the thought that a wrestler is a "midcarder for life" should NEVER EVER RUN A WRESTLING BUSINESS!!! I'll give you Austin and Foley but Jericho, Rey, Guerrero and Benoit were all upper-midcarders at best who got the world title. They're not main eventers like Hogan, Rock.
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Post by Rorschach on Mar 19, 2010 2:57:13 GMT -5
And he's apparently incapable of EVER improving? The company will never shift gears? The current crop of aging main eventers will never retire? I sometimes wish these boards were around in the mid 1990's just to see how many people would've declared Rocky Maivia, The Ringmaster and Hunter Hearst Helmsley as "mid-carders for life". Rough estimate: Lots of people. Lots. I really liked Hunter Hearst Helmsley as a character. If I recall correctly, he was a bit of a tweener and the character had some depth to it. The Ringmaster just sounded stupid and even the announcers referred to him as Steve Austin. You could at least tell he was solid in the ring. Rocky Maivia was really stupid. His matches were really stupid. I would have bet he'd crash and fail. So basically I only agree with you on one of them. As far as Kofi goes? I'll withhold judgment for now. I did think his push came too soon because one second he was a fun-loving Rastafarian and the next he was an intense, borderline stalker from Africa. Huh? That's some fine writin' there, Lou. I've said it before and I'll say it again...at least with Rocky Maivia becoming the Rock, you had a motive and a reason for the attitude change. The fans s*** on him. They turned their backs on him so he dropped the smilin' islander persona and became an uber-asshole in The Rock. Kofi? One minute he was "Cool Runnings" and had a character, and the next, DX is mocking him for being a fraud and a fake and he's now this super serial Ghanan. WTF? And you know what? I am NOT the only one who was thrown off by that. The majority of the fanbase lost interest in Kofi after he got his "makeover"....and it didn't help that this new "super-serious" attitude shift resulted in him going from being a winner and former IC champ....to a loser and a scrub who can't even beat Orton. I might be more accepting of the accent going away if it would have resulted in him GOING somewhere or getting more over as a result. As is, it was for abso-f*****g-lutely NOTHING.
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Jimmy
Grimlock
Posts: 13,317
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Post by Jimmy on Mar 19, 2010 5:49:14 GMT -5
Trust me, you don't got this.
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Post by celticjobber on Mar 19, 2010 6:09:53 GMT -5
I think he might be a mid-carder for life in WWE, but if/when he goes to TNA he'll probably be an immediate main eventer like Kennedy.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Mar 19, 2010 6:47:35 GMT -5
I really liked Hunter Hearst Helmsley as a character. If I recall correctly, he was a bit of a tweener and the character had some depth to it. The Ringmaster just sounded stupid and even the announcers referred to him as Steve Austin. You could at least tell he was solid in the ring. Rocky Maivia was really stupid. His matches were really stupid. I would have bet he'd crash and fail. So basically I only agree with you on one of them. As far as Kofi goes? I'll withhold judgment for now. I did think his push came too soon because one second he was a fun-loving Rastafarian and the next he was an intense, borderline stalker from Africa. Huh? That's some fine writin' there, Lou. I've said it before and I'll say it again...at least with Rocky Maivia becoming the Rock, you had a motive and a reason for the attitude change. The fans s*** on him. They turned their backs on him so he dropped the smilin' islander persona and became an uber-asshole in The Rock. Kofi? One minute he was "Cool Runnings" and had a character, and the next, DX is mocking him for being a fraud and a fake and he's now this super serial Ghanan. WTF? And you know what? I am NOT the only one who was thrown off by that. The majority of the fanbase lost interest in Kofi after he got his "makeover"....and it didn't help that this new "super-serious" attitude shift resulted in him going from being a winner and former IC champ....to a loser and a scrub who can't even beat Orton. I might be more accepting of the accent going away if it would have resulted in him GOING somewhere or getting more over as a result. As is, it was for abso-f*****g-lutely NOTHING. man, you're just nuts. Kofi got more serious because he was pissed at Orton. And the fact is he got little mike time before he dropped Jamaica for Ghana as his home. His character was basically the same, nice guy who helped people out(see his theme song SOS). Any personality aspects no longer there are one's you gave him, because the only thing that changed about him was his accent.
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Post by snugglecakes on Mar 19, 2010 7:53:48 GMT -5
Watch Kofi get the last Money in the Bank slot and then win it.
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Post by KimberlyPagesBoyToy on Mar 19, 2010 11:50:54 GMT -5
You think Kofi's getting a bad deal that's nothing. Poor Zack Ryder, with one of the top 5 music themes in the history of this business, a great look, and good skills can't even get 3 minutes in a Royal Rumble match..he's currently this generation's Barry Horowitz and it sucks. Ryder for a program with Cena....Wooo Wooooo!
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Post by Kash Flagg on Mar 19, 2010 17:10:24 GMT -5
He's gotten stale is what it is and he needs to either move to Smackdown with it's lack of faces, or turn heel. Or both.
I have a feeling he'd make a good heel.
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Post by KingPopper on Mar 19, 2010 17:17:46 GMT -5
I have a strange feeling Kofi will do a run in during the Cena/Batista match, and probably turn on Cena. He tried to help Cena the two weeks ago, and this week he was destroyed by Batista and Cena was no where in sight. Maybe thats why he's no where to be found on the card.
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Post by Kash Flagg on Mar 19, 2010 17:20:55 GMT -5
I have a strange feeling Kofi will do a run in during the Cena/Batista match, and probably turn on Cena. He tried to help Cena the two weeks ago, and this week he was destroyed by Batista and Cena was no where in sight. Maybe thats why he's no where to be found on the card. There's your reason for a heel turn. He helps everyone out, and nobody helps his ass when he gets beat up.
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Post by Quote the Tozz, Nevermore. on Mar 19, 2010 17:24:34 GMT -5
He's gotten stale is what it is and he needs to either move to Smackdown with it's lack of faces, or turn heel. Or both. I have a feeling he'd make a good heel. Wow. Heel Kofi... I want to see that. I guess he probably will be a midcarder for life, but an upper one at that. He won't be an Evan Bourne (I hope) but if WWE do ever let him go, they'd be stupid to because TNA would snap him up in a heartbeat. In saying that, he'd probably do better on Smackdown, more breathing space there. Not so much midcard hell.
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Post by Jason on Mar 19, 2010 17:32:36 GMT -5
I don't see the big deal about Zack Ryder. He is average in the ring, has a pretty embarrassing gimmick, and I just can't see him going anywhere either. I knew he would be a jobber when he went off ECW. I disagree with the good mic skills, he seems pretty nervous and just says "Are you serious bro?" about 50 times.
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Post by Crazy Diamond on Mar 19, 2010 21:12:28 GMT -5
They push who they want to on Raw regardless of the fans. It's been the case for years and Kofi is yet another example of a wrestler who has been hurt by it. It does not help that the WWE refuses to push more than one black wrestler at a time. It's a land of milk in honey on TNA, with the Nasty Boys and Orlando Jordan, and Smackdown, with Drew McIntyre and Undertaker getting 100% fan support. Kofi's on Raw, so that's what I'm talking about. It has nothing to do with TNA or SD and even then it's unlikely that the Nasty Boys, Orlando Jordan, and Drew McIntyre will end up being pushed as Heavyweight champion unlike Sheamus. Notice that when Kofi's push stop, all of sudden they did nothing with guys like Shelton, MVP, and Mark Henry. It's ridiculous.
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EJS
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,857
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Post by EJS on Mar 19, 2010 21:27:38 GMT -5
Wow. Heel Kofi... I want to see that.
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