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Post by Branimal on Mar 22, 2010 14:21:31 GMT -5
Cena totally deserves his spot. The man's an absolute workhorse. If some more technically sound wrestlers had even half his drive and passion for pro wrestling, maybe they'd be in a similar spot too. I agree. Cena might not be my favorite guy in the company but he's certainly worked hard enough to get his spot. He works the most house shows as champion (I think) - which is more that can be said of many of the current headliners. I think the problem mainly lies within the fact that Cena rarely looses. In any sport, no one athlete is seldom as successful as John Cena (granted, it's hard to compare to an "actual" sport) and I think that annoys me the most. Some of the better guys within WWE's long and illustrious payroll might make a habit out of winning but do so in a way that makes their opponents look fantastic. Top guys such as Shawn Michaels, Bret Hart & Rey Mysterio were (are) really good at this. I find Cena guilty of this (as are a few others). I'm not sure if it's particularly his fault or if he's told by others to work this way but he runs through people without trouble - he makes most of his opponents look like jokes and if they do beat them, it often takes a measure of insanity to do so (i.e. Big Show slamming him through a spotlight, a spree of random finishers, etc). I think I would like his character a lot more if he just came across as a little more human.
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Post by Jason on Mar 22, 2010 14:21:41 GMT -5
If John Cena was this big hard worker WWE protray him as, he would be better in the ring and on the mic, period. People say he busts his ass, well I fail to see it. Sure he may come back faster than expected after a career threatening injury, sure he may give thousands to charity. Well... his ring skills suck, he wrestles the same match everytime and practically replays his routine, I don't call that "busting his ass", I call that a routine... a routine, that he probably can do in his sleep. If he was so great, how come he has to rely on the same routine? I mean even Triple H breaks out some new moves sometimes, so I don't see the whole "He's told to do that!".
People say he's not the same as he was in 2005, well IMO... right now, he's worse. Back then, his role was that he was the new kid on the block who couldn't lace Triple H's shoes. Now, he's "the guy", the guy that they never shut up about for five minutes. Whether it's on commentary, during a match, during commercial, on WWE.com, preview shows, Smackdown, NXT, Superstars. They're always talking about him. They drift away from a match like say Swagger vs Kingston on Raw to talk about how Cena might not be able to overcome the odds.
IMO he is absolutely everything that is wrong with WWE and a part of me is just glad he's off TV, when he's injured. Not that I like seeing guys get hurt, but it's practically the only way he ever f***s off. The whole "he busts his ass for us!" thing is old. The problem is, I don't want him to bust his ass for me, I want him to stop busting his ass and let somebody else bust theirs.
Like the above poster said, if WWE thought this way in the 80's and 90's, there would be no Hulk Hogan, no Shawn Michaels, No Ric Flair, no Roddy Piper, no Bret Hart. I'm flat-out positive that he's the reason people are getting held down, when somebody like Kingston breaks out, and gets "Cena-like" pops, they de-push him. They can't have him out-pop their big guy. When he goes away, people like CM Punk hold the world title. I don't consider Sheamus a new guy that held the title because he was a heel and he won it and terrible fashion. I mean, they stretched time and time again that Cena fell through the table and Sheamus had nothing to do with it. That was un-neccessary to its absolute peak. They don't need to put over Cena, they had to make us believe Sheamus was a good enough guy to hold it and they failed to do that because the only worthy matches he was winning was by DQ. They should have just said "Sheamus was the better man". TNA can do it and Angle keeps his heat, if Cena is so popular, he won't need these comments massaging his ego.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Mar 22, 2010 14:40:05 GMT -5
It's a silly statement to make really. You may not enjoy him, hell I'm not a real big fan, but it's easy to see the guy is far and away the face of the company and has been since they vaulted him into that position.
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Post by angryauthor on Mar 22, 2010 14:45:36 GMT -5
It's a silly statement to make really. You may not enjoy him, hell I'm not a real big fan, but it's easy to see the guy is far and away the face of the company and has been since they vaulted him into that position. Underlined part is, I think, a lot of the OP's point. They vaulted him there. For one, while I don't object to his position at the top of the card, I have to agree that he makes everyone he ever faces look shit. Only Orton and Trips have managed to go on to not look like jokes, and that's only because they both get the same treatment. If he keeps on squashing everyone, he's not going to have anyone credible to face.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2010 14:47:48 GMT -5
Cena made Umaga look like a killer against him; he got a pretty good match out of Khali, hell he had a great match with Swagger that made him look good too.
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Post by angryauthor on Mar 22, 2010 14:49:59 GMT -5
Umaga and Khali both went from being headliners to going way down the card after facing Cena, though. Must admit, haven't seen him vs Swagger.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2010 14:54:22 GMT -5
Also the whole thing about commentators talking about him in undercard matches is silly
That happens in every fed with main eventers whether it's WWE,WCW or TNA the Main Event is the Main Event and there gonna talk about it
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2010 14:54:46 GMT -5
Umaga and Khali both went from being headliners to going way down the card after facing Cena, though. Must admit, haven't seen him vs Swagger. I can't say I know what happened to Umaga's push after that but it took everything that Cena had to beat him, having to rely on the ring ropes to choke him out with the stf. Cena couldn't have done more outside of losing to make Umaga seem a bigger threat. I just doubt that after a match like that that Cena told creative not to push Umaga.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2010 14:55:55 GMT -5
Triple H returning from Quad Injury happened to Umaga
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JDviant
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Post by JDviant on Mar 22, 2010 15:01:00 GMT -5
Umaga and Khali both went from being headliners to going way down the card after facing Cena, though. Must admit, haven't seen him vs Swagger. Didn't Umaga go on to face Lashley in the hair vs hair match at Mania? He's above the championship matches on the advertising and dvd cover. I love the people that brought up the doping and keeping his nose clean outside the ring. I wonder if Vince thought this way in the 80s/90s? Well I guess take away Roddy Piper, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Bret Hart, obviously the Iron Sheik, Jake Roberts, the British Bulldogs, Shawn Micheals, Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Sean Waltman, Curt Hennig, and there is definitely more. Man the WWF would have sucked back in the day if they thought the way they do now. I personally can't see one person on that list who in any way, shape, or form, would have benefited from living a healthier lifestyle.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2010 15:02:28 GMT -5
Umaga and Khali both went from being headliners to going way down the card after facing Cena, though. Must admit, haven't seen him vs Swagger. Didn't Umaga go on to face Lashley in the hair vs hair match at Mania? He's above the championship matches on the advertising and dvd cover. I love the people that brought up the doping and keeping his nose clean outside the ring. I wonder if Vince thought this way in the 80s/90s? Well I guess take away Roddy Piper, Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Bret Hart, obviously the Iron Sheik, Jake Roberts, the British Bulldogs, Shawn Micheals, Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Sean Waltman, Curt Hennig, and there is definitely more. Man the WWF would have sucked back in the day if they thought the way they do now. I personally can't see one person on that list who in any way, shape, or form, would have benefited from living a healthier lifestyle. I'd say Davey Boy would benefit by still being alive
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2010 15:06:31 GMT -5
Didn't Umaga go on to face Lashley in the hair vs hair match at Mania? He's above the championship matches on the advertising and dvd cover. I personally can't see one person on that list who in any way, shape, or form, would have benefited from living a healthier lifestyle. I'd say Davey Boy would benefit by still being alive So would Curt Hennig
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
Great Job!
Posts: 5,649
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Post by spagett on Mar 22, 2010 15:07:36 GMT -5
I don't like Cena but I dont hate him. He obviously loves the business and he has a good record of having good matches on the big occasions.
I will say that even the most biased Cena fan must be able to see why others might not like him seeing as though he has been on top, on TV every week, for about 5 years without the slightest tweak in his gimmick.
It is very stale.
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
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Fun while it lasted
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Mar 22, 2010 15:15:20 GMT -5
If John Cena was this big hard worker WWE protray him as, he would be better in the ring and on the mic, period. People say he busts his ass, well I fail to see it. Sure he may come back faster than expected after a career threatening injury, sure he may give thousands to charity. Well... his ring skills suck, he wrestles the same match everytime and practically replays his routine, I don't call that "busting his ass", I call that a routine... a routine, that he probably can do in his sleep. If he was so great, how come he has to rely on the same routine? I mean even Triple H breaks out some new moves sometimes, so I don't see the whole "He's told to do that!". People say he's not the same as he was in 2005, well IMO... right now, he's worse. Back then, his role was that he was the new kid on the block who couldn't lace Triple H's shoes. Now, he's "the guy", the guy that they never shut up about for five minutes. Whether it's on commentary, during a match, during commercial, on WWE.com, preview shows, Smackdown, NXT, Superstars. They're always talking about him. They drift away from a match like say Swagger vs Kingston on Raw to talk about how Cena might not be able to overcome the odds. IMO he is absolutely everything that is wrong with WWE and a part of me is just glad he's off TV, when he's injured. Not that I like seeing guys get hurt, but it's practically the only way he ever f***s off. The whole "he busts his ass for us!" thing is old. The problem is, I don't want him to bust his ass for me, I want him to stop busting his ass and let somebody else bust theirs. Like the above poster said, if WWE thought this way in the 80's and 90's, there would be no Hulk Hogan, no Shawn Michaels, No Ric Flair, no Roddy Piper, no Bret Hart. I'm flat-out positive that he's the reason people are getting held down, when somebody like Kingston breaks out, and gets "Cena-like" pops, they de-push him. They can't have him out-pop their big guy. When he goes away, people like CM Punk hold the world title. I don't consider Sheamus a new guy that held the title because he was a heel and he won it and terrible fashion. I mean, they stretched time and time again that Cena fell through the table and Sheamus had nothing to do with it. That was un-neccessary to its absolute peak. They don't need to put over Cena, they had to make us believe Sheamus was a good enough guy to hold it and they failed to do that because the only worthy matches he was winning was by DQ. They should have just said "Sheamus was the better man". TNA can do it and Angle keeps his heat, if Cena is so popular, he won't need these comments massaging his ego. this coming from someone with Kurt Angle in his sig. aside from ass jockey styles and kevin nash, angle has done more than anyone else to completly monopolize the titles at TNA. and he doesn't have half the fanbase or work ethic that cena does. to argue that angle, who i've always found to be grossly overrated and overpushed, is a better wrestler and person than cena is truly wrong. and in my opinion, i'll take cena/batista as the last match of wm26 before i even glance at another horriffic taker/hbk match, with all respect in the world due to them.
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Post by Bravo Echo November on Mar 22, 2010 15:30:40 GMT -5
To put it in console terms:
Cena = Wii: It is fun for kids and the mainstream. Brings in a boat-full of cash. Games and qualities though leave alot to be desired. Does not appeal to the hardcore crowd (IWC). Does have some cool qualities that happen every so often like Zelda (His matches) Is white.
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by AriadosMan on Mar 22, 2010 15:31:59 GMT -5
John Cena DOES deserve his spot, since he's one of the few guys who can still get a huge crowd reaction (positive or negative).
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Post by chaimwitz on Mar 22, 2010 15:37:13 GMT -5
cena sells merch. end of.
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The F'N Captain
King Koopa
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Post by The F'N Captain on Mar 22, 2010 15:38:59 GMT -5
Cena can get tiresome, I dislike his current lack of character besides being a SUPER GOOD GUY, and even though not nearly as consistent as it used to be I still wince when shades of Super Cena pop up in matches.
That being said, he IS over wether any haters admit it or not, he CAN wrestle, and he is EXACTLY what Vince wants right now, a clean cut, respectable, "say your prayers and eat your vitamins" type uber face to be the franchise of the PG WWE era, so as far as "earned his spot" I'd have to say he has. Add to the fact his career has not been dotted with frequent injuries and he works a LOT as opposed to more injury prone guys like Edge, Taker, and Tista, it's really a no brainer why he's the guy right now.
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Post by chaimwitz on Mar 22, 2010 15:40:11 GMT -5
To put it in console terms: Is white. no one's ever gonna realize vince's.....shall we say "not being a fan of" certain people
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Post by Jason on Mar 22, 2010 15:40:43 GMT -5
If John Cena was this big hard worker WWE protray him as, he would be better in the ring and on the mic, period. People say he busts his ass, well I fail to see it. Sure he may come back faster than expected after a career threatening injury, sure he may give thousands to charity. Well... his ring skills suck, he wrestles the same match everytime and practically replays his routine, I don't call that "busting his ass", I call that a routine... a routine, that he probably can do in his sleep. If he was so great, how come he has to rely on the same routine? I mean even Triple H breaks out some new moves sometimes, so I don't see the whole "He's told to do that!". People say he's not the same as he was in 2005, well IMO... right now, he's worse. Back then, his role was that he was the new kid on the block who couldn't lace Triple H's shoes. Now, he's "the guy", the guy that they never shut up about for five minutes. Whether it's on commentary, during a match, during commercial, on WWE.com, preview shows, Smackdown, NXT, Superstars. They're always talking about him. They drift away from a match like say Swagger vs Kingston on Raw to talk about how Cena might not be able to overcome the odds. IMO he is absolutely everything that is wrong with WWE and a part of me is just glad he's off TV, when he's injured. Not that I like seeing guys get hurt, but it's practically the only way he ever f***s off. The whole "he busts his ass for us!" thing is old. The problem is, I don't want him to bust his ass for me, I want him to stop busting his ass and let somebody else bust theirs. Like the above poster said, if WWE thought this way in the 80's and 90's, there would be no Hulk Hogan, no Shawn Michaels, No Ric Flair, no Roddy Piper, no Bret Hart. I'm flat-out positive that he's the reason people are getting held down, when somebody like Kingston breaks out, and gets "Cena-like" pops, they de-push him. They can't have him out-pop their big guy. When he goes away, people like CM Punk hold the world title. I don't consider Sheamus a new guy that held the title because he was a heel and he won it and terrible fashion. I mean, they stretched time and time again that Cena fell through the table and Sheamus had nothing to do with it. That was un-neccessary to its absolute peak. They don't need to put over Cena, they had to make us believe Sheamus was a good enough guy to hold it and they failed to do that because the only worthy matches he was winning was by DQ. They should have just said "Sheamus was the better man". TNA can do it and Angle keeps his heat, if Cena is so popular, he won't need these comments massaging his ego. this coming from someone with Kurt Angle in his sig. aside from ass jockey styles and kevin nash, angle has done more than anyone else to completly monopolize the titles at TNA. and he doesn't have half the fanbase or work ethic that cena does. to argue that angle, who i've always found to be grossly overrated and overpushed, is a better wrestler and person than cena is truly wrong. and in my opinion, i'll take cena/batista as the last match of wm26 before i even glance at another horriffic taker/hbk match, with all respect in the world due to them. Kurt Angle makes people look good and they don't make him look insanely unstoppable when he loses. The only way John Cena ever loses is by distraction or DQ, if somebody beats him, they shove an excuse down our throats. There was no excuses when Anderson beat him, it was just simply "He was the better man, kudos!", if that was Cena, it would be "John Cena had the match won and he was robbed!" That's why the Anderson character can be taken seriously and Sheamus (in some people's eyes) can't. He didn't benefit from the Cena win because they made it out to be a fluke, which resulted in his whole title run as a joke. If they said "Sheamus, who can stop this guy? He just beat John Cena with his bare hands!", MAYBE some people would wake up and smell the Guinness. Cena makes nobody look good. Swagger is practically the only exception. And that's because he's friends with him in real life, as far as I'm aware. I remember in the Slammy's Raw from November, he beat CM Punk in ONE minute, he made him tap straight away. That's not an exaggeration, I re-looked it up and he beat him in 1:12. You don't beat a former 3 time world champion in 1:12. He made Chris Benoit tap during WM23 week, you don't make Chris Benoit tap out unless you're Kurt Angle. That was an absolute disgrace, and not in the smarky way either. I'm not the type of guy who would get pissed if he did it to Daniel Bryan, as he's not even established yet, but I was flat-out disgusted when he did that to Benoit. Those are just exceptions too. He absolutely raped The Miz during the summer and some people argue that it was for the better, but I beg to differ. The Miz didn't need to get murdered to change his ring attire, his personality is the exact same minus the douchey clothes. You can thank guys like MVP for making The Miz a credible threat, he actually put him over and made us believe he actually could, someday become a world champion. John Cena did not.
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