jamielowndes {N}
Unicron
The following post has been paid for by the Nexus World Order
Posts: 3,240
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Post by jamielowndes {N} on Apr 2, 2010 18:39:08 GMT -5
I hate the jorts as well, partially because no guy over the age of 18 with a full time job wears jorts. Bret Hart wears them. Bret Hart wore pink for his entire career. It's a well established fact that Bret Hart is immune from the universal man-laws of dress code.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2010 18:53:20 GMT -5
Hogan was great at selling. Back then to see a 300+ pound babyface sell for 70% of his matches was unheard of. Hogan pulled it off beautifully. Some of the younger crowd just see the "Hulk Up" and think it was Hogan's inability to sell, but it was his gimmick. His selling was excellent. Fans would have never bought into the superman comeback if Hogan didn't make himself seem vulnerable throughout the match.
I haven't seen enough Cena to see how good his selling is, but a lot depends on the circumstances. More recently, The Rock would sell everything like it was a gunshot. Of course he did it to make his opponent look good, but again, fans bought into his comebacks as a result. Austin was more "stack the deck against him as much as possible" booking. Hogan was something like that as well. Rock was more vulnerable simply because he lost a lot.
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Post by steamboat1 on Apr 2, 2010 19:01:22 GMT -5
My friend of mine put it this way the other day when I was complaining about Cena. He's like, well, he moves the most merchandise...would they still move merchandise if the Lakers lost all the time like the Clippers?
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Dave at the Movies
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
VINTAGE D-DAY DAVE! Always cranking dat thing.
Posts: 18,224
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Post by Dave at the Movies on Apr 2, 2010 20:02:40 GMT -5
Of course they love him that much. they have been tryiin to make him the next Hogan for like five years now. How can people not see that?
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Post by Pooh Carlson on Apr 2, 2010 22:22:42 GMT -5
Cena didn't sell those briefcase shots. After EVERY shot he went to get back up, and Swagger had to hit him about five times for Cena to stay down. Meanwhile, Triple H got nailed once by Sheamus and was dead for five minutes. Then, the ref finally gets down, Cena pops back up and starts to go to work on Swagger before Swagger runs away and Cena just smiles and acts like he didn't just get hit in the head about five times and almost had his belt stolen from him. He should've been pissed that he just got jumped, he should've been holding his head in pain. I didn't see any of that. You don't have a clue what "no-selling" means. If Cena had been hit with the briefcase and remained standing there acting like nothing happened, that would be no-selling. The fact that he went down means he sold it. IF you wnat to make your argument, you should be saying that Cena didn't sell enough which is an legit argument and debatable. But trying to say that Cena no-sold the briefcase shots proves you don't know what "no selling" means. EDIT: And if Cena was holding his head after those briefcase shots, he would be the biggest idiot in WWE history, seeing as how HE WASN'T HIT IN THE HEAD AT ALL WITH THOSE SHOTS. I know what no-selling means, thank you very much. Sorry, I didn't make myself perfectly clear, but I appreciate your dickish response. Yes, Cena went down and sold the briefcase shots at that point. Yes, he sells moves DURING THE MATCH. But as soon as the match is over he's walking around like he didn't just go through hell. He's certainly not the only one to do it, but he does it A LOT.
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Post by doinkmark on Apr 3, 2010 2:00:30 GMT -5
I'm sure if Cena wanted to he could probably push the creative team to put someone over him...But really, why would he? Cena gets to be the top guy without the "holding down others" or 'difficult to work with backstage" reputation. He keeps his mouth shut and does his job, which just so happens to include winning most of the time. Why rock that boat? I think part of the reason he's pushed so hard is BECAUSE he shuts up and works hard without making any waves backstage one way or another.
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Post by Kris Kobain on Apr 3, 2010 2:16:16 GMT -5
You're kidding? Cena more exciting than Hogan? Hogan had the crowd in the palm of his hands just by pointing his finger. Cena does his little protobomb or whatever he calls it, gets up and looks innocently at a mixed crowd full of A. kids cheering him and B. smarks booing him. I find Cena's "thing" more annoying than Hogan, why? Because they actually acknowledged Hogan was hulking up. It was a huge part of the character, when Cena does his "hulk up", it is basically unacknowledged in the "WWE Universe" and they go on about how Cena wrestled a damn good match. Oh yeah, Cena sold that punt in the Hell in a Cell PPV very well. Randy Orton missed the guy's head took his head clean off and Cena got straight up after the match was over and did his signature disappointed look sold it to perfection. The move that put Triple H, RVD, Shawn Michaels, Ted Dibiase, Cody Rhodes and others on the shelf for months and Cena gets straight up after it and acts like nothing happened sells it for months on end. Big Show? Yeah, he got thrown through a light and returned the next night on speghetti legs, all to cost Big Show a match and to smirk about it afterwards had to take weeks off, before returning for his big match against the Showster. Where have I been?! Bahahahahaha, you sir, made me chuckle heartily. The problem with Cena (in my opinion) is that, sure, he can sell when he's getting moves put on him, but five minutes later he's fine. And its not just Cena, others do it, too, but he does it A LOT. I was at Judgment Day in Chicago for Cena vs Big Show, if I'm remembering correctly, Big Show beat the holy heck out of Cena the week before, ravaged his ribs ... or something like that ... and then beat him mercilessly throughout the ENTIRE match at the PPV, and then at the very end Cena gets his finisher and wins and goes on like he didn't get beat down for 15 minutes. Logically, Cena shouldn't have won. I'm a very logical person, so it pisses me off when that happens. And Hogan's Hulking up after taking punishment the majority of the match and being totally fine after the match doing all his posing is different how?
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littlenaitch
Dennis Stamp
Stylin' and Profilin'
Hall of Famer!!
Posts: 4,160
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Post by littlenaitch on Apr 3, 2010 2:37:28 GMT -5
For me the thing with Cena is that they do not allow him to suffer a beat down very often. This feud with Batista was old school booking and made you want to see Cena finally kick Batista's ass. If they were to do that more often with Cena suffering beat downs then maybe people will start to like him. Hogan got laid out every now and then and that got him over huge as well as the heel he was working with. I mean look at SummerSlam 90, Hogan could have easily pinned Earthquake and got his revenge for the injury but instead the match ended in a countout to keep Earthquake strong. WWE does not do that anymore with Cena and it annoys me. People would actually get behind Cena more if the heel he's working with could get some heat on him. That's just my two cents.
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Post by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew on Apr 3, 2010 6:43:26 GMT -5
You don't have a clue what "no-selling" means. If Cena had been hit with the briefcase and remained standing there acting like nothing happened, that would be no-selling. The fact that he went down means he sold it. IF you wnat to make your argument, you should be saying that Cena didn't sell enough which is an legit argument and debatable. But trying to say that Cena no-sold the briefcase shots proves you don't know what "no selling" means. EDIT: And if Cena was holding his head after those briefcase shots, he would be the biggest idiot in WWE history, seeing as how HE WASN'T HIT IN THE HEAD AT ALL WITH THOSE SHOTS. I know what no-selling means, thank you very much. Sorry, I didn't make myself perfectly clear, but I appreciate your dickish response. Yes, Cena went down and sold the briefcase shots at that point. Yes, he sells moves DURING THE MATCH. But as soon as the match is over he's walking around like he didn't just go through hell. He's certainly not the only one to do it, but he does it A LOT. So, I assume you had a problem with Hulk Hogan when he did the exact same thing, right? RIGHT?
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,296
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Post by The Ichi on Apr 3, 2010 7:55:51 GMT -5
I know what no-selling means, thank you very much. Sorry, I didn't make myself perfectly clear, but I appreciate your dickish response. Yes, Cena went down and sold the briefcase shots at that point. Yes, he sells moves DURING THE MATCH. But as soon as the match is over he's walking around like he didn't just go through hell. He's certainly not the only one to do it, but he does it A LOT. So, I assume you had a problem with Hulk Hogan when he did the exact same thing, right? RIGHT? He just said he's not the only one that does it, duder.
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Post by Pooh Carlson on Apr 3, 2010 13:13:07 GMT -5
I know what no-selling means, thank you very much. Sorry, I didn't make myself perfectly clear, but I appreciate your dickish response. Yes, Cena went down and sold the briefcase shots at that point. Yes, he sells moves DURING THE MATCH. But as soon as the match is over he's walking around like he didn't just go through hell. He's certainly not the only one to do it, but he does it A LOT. So, I assume you had a problem with Hulk Hogan when he did the exact same thing, right? RIGHT? (1) Completely different era. In that time, it wasn't as outright fake and wrestling was the only big mainstream fight thing (besides boxing). These days, you have UFC and such, so it would help to make things a little more realistic. Walking around like you're fine after a match isn't realistic. (2) I wasn't watching during the height of Hulkamania, I was still too young, so it didn't bother me.
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Post by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew on Apr 3, 2010 14:56:09 GMT -5
So, I assume you had a problem with Hulk Hogan when he did the exact same thing, right? RIGHT? He just said he's not the only one that does it, duder. Yes. But the oinly one getting ripped for it is Cena. Kind of hypocritical if you ask me.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2010 15:15:31 GMT -5
Concerning Cena's tendency to be "indestructible" most of the time, I always go back to a certain a event, and that's Backlash 2009. By the end of this PPV, everyone thought that BOTH John Cena and Triple H were going to be out of action for a while. - Triple H gets kicked in the head by Orton, and is out for a couple of weeks. - Cena gets chokeslammed through a SEARCHLIGHT (which means glass, steel, wires and minor explosives). The next night on RAW, he's back unscathed and smiling. I can (sort of) understand shrugging off briefcase shots, but that, come on now. It makes me wonder how exactly they would have sold Cena's condition if Orton succeeded on blowing him up not too long ago. he was barely able to stumble out onto the entrance way to distract Big Show then gritted his teeth and smiled through the pain at the small act of revenge he was able to get on Big Show. unscathed? didn't look like it to me
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Post by celticjobber on Apr 3, 2010 16:20:20 GMT -5
In Sabu's last RF shoot interview, he said he hurt Cena in a tablespot and Vince yelled at him and said something like " How dare you hurt him! I've invested $25 million dollars in this man".
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Post by Pooh Carlson on Apr 3, 2010 23:48:36 GMT -5
He just said he's not the only one that does it, duder. Yes. But the oinly one getting ripped for it is Cena. Kind of hypocritical if you ask me. And this thread is solely about Cena ... soooo ... go make a thread about Hogan and bash him there.
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Post by molson5 on Apr 4, 2010 0:00:59 GMT -5
It's not even just face champions, since I've been watching the WWE (since about 1985), a face, any face, losing cleanly against a heel considered his equal, or worse, is extremely rare. It's actually far more common now though, than it was in the 80s.
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Post by primetime110 on Apr 4, 2010 1:57:20 GMT -5
What are you on about? Hulking up was the most retarded thing ever. I'm saying that as someone who was a kid in the '80s and '90s. I hated Hogan and still do. Cena is more exciting and a better wrestler than Hogan ever was. Triple H is boring as hell in the ring too.. Here's an idea. Let's have DX beat up the whole tag division because that's believable. As far as the fans that find him attractive and not knowing his moves. The same could be said for a guy like John Morrison or the Miz. Cena sold to the Big Show when he was feuding with The Miz. Cena sold to Orton. He wrestles a brawler style same as Hunter and The Rock and later Steve Austin. He's not expected to be the most technical guy out there. I'm not even a Cena fan but you people are ridiculous with your arguments. It's just "cool" to hate him so you all jump on the bandwagon and spew the same thing over and over. I'm waiting for one of you to have an original thought. Starting......................now! You're kidding? Cena more exciting than Hogan? Hogan had the crowd in the palm of his hands just by pointing his finger. Cena does his little protobomb or whatever he calls it, gets up and looks innocently at a mixed crowd full of A. kids cheering him and B. smarks booing him. I find Cena's "thing" more annoying than Hogan, why? Because they actually acknowledged Hogan was hulking up. It was a huge part of the character, when Cena does his "hulk up", it is basically unacknowledged in the "WWE Universe" and they go on about how Cena wrestled a damn good match. Oh yeah, Cena sold that punt in the Hell in a Cell PPV very well. Randy Orton missed the guy's head took his head clean off and Cena got straight up after the match was over and did his signature disappointed look sold it to perfection. The move that put Triple H, RVD, Shawn Michaels, Ted Dibiase, Cody Rhodes and others on the shelf for months and Cena gets straight up after it and acts like nothing happened sells it for months on end. Big Show? Yeah, he got thrown through a light and returned the next night on speghetti legs, all to cost Big Show a match and to smirk about it afterwards had to take weeks off, before returning for his big match against the Showster. Where have I been?! Hogans matches were way more predictable that Cena's. I hated Hogan growing up because I knew excatly what was going to happen in every match he was in. Yeah, Hogan had the crowd in the palm of his hands. different era, 95 percent were hogans fans and no "hate Hogan bandwagon" as there is now for Cena. Hogan and Warrior no sold 10x as much as Cena does. Yeah, When Cena loses its because something cost him a match. Warrior-Hogan hardly ever lost even with run-ins.
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Post by Kris Kobain on Apr 4, 2010 2:28:17 GMT -5
Yes. But the oinly one getting ripped for it is Cena. Kind of hypocritical if you ask me. And this thread is solely about Cena ... soooo ... go make a thread about Hogan and bash him there. Comparing him to other workers is part of the debate. It shows that he isn't the only one who gets/got this treatment.
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Post by Kris Kobain on Apr 4, 2010 5:07:28 GMT -5
I hate the jorts as well, partially because no guy over the age of 18 with a full time job wears jorts. Steve Austin Balls Mahoney Justin Credible Raven Rob Van Dam outside of the ring Several professional skateboarders and bmx riders several people in famous bands
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Post by corndog on Apr 4, 2010 8:43:58 GMT -5
It's the same exact formula they used for Hogan, Warrior, and I know some of you won't agree but even Austin. The WWE has pretty much been a top face based territory since it's seperation from the NWA, just look at Bruno, 7 freaking years as champion. But there is one problem, Bruno, Hogan, and Austin were extremely popular. Okay Cena has his fans, mainly women and children, but there is a good percentage of people that don't like him. If you are going to book a guy like Hogan, he has to be extremely popular and someone that everyone likes. Besides I hate to tell Vince this, but his main audience is still men ages 18-49, an audience that doesn't like Cena. I really think Cena would have benefited more from a Rock like push, where he is sucessful, but is not invinceable. Also I think fans are starting to get sick of the same formula after watching it for the last 30+ years in the WWE. Another thing I noticed with former heels like Edge and Orton becoming so popular, is it getting close to another Attitude Era(not the pushing the envelope, but the rise of the anti-hero) where the faces/heel flipflop?
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