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Post by Jason on Apr 1, 2010 23:19:30 GMT -5
Seriously, I think there's something in it. Why Cena can never put anybody over, do the writers and company love him that much that he can never look bad? I can't remember a single time where he looked bad in a feud after 2006. Hell, I can't even remember when he put anybody over or lost clean. I mean REALLY lost, no string attached, no excuses.
-------------- - The Great Khali > Yeah, he got beat up for a few weeks and Khali "stole" his belt, he got it back and won clean in vintage Cena fashion.
- Umaga > See Khali. Yes he made him look good in the Rumble match, but that did him no favors. Cena still won, he also beat him via roll-up a few weeks beforehand, ending his undefeated streak.
- Sheamus > Please. Sheamus didn't win, his foot slipped off the rope and he fell through the table. Lines like that did Sheamus no favors and weren't needed. Poor guy can't even get a rematch at him... and that always happens with Cena... always!
- Edge > Yeah, I'd say Edge wasn't fully polished as a main eventer until he cashed in his second MITB. The feud was good but again, Cena looks better. Their "re-feud" in 2009 doesn't count, Big Show helped Edge win. Again, Cena looks better.
- Batista > This is arguable. Batista looked good in the Summerslam match and won clean. But that meant nothing after Cena made him his bitch at Wrestlemania with his lame-ass STF.
- Jack Swagger > Do I need to stretch how much of a tool he made him look on monday? This wasn't booking. This was vintage Cena, he no-sold his briefcase shots, and worst of all... he smiles about it afterwards. The draft match? Who remembers that? Yes it was a good match but it was no classic. Swagger has the world belt now, that was what he needed. A win, not to "look good but not do good enough". He should have cashed in on Cena too, not Jericho. Cena has no heels to feud with on Raw, Batista is apparently taking time off. HHH and Orton are faces and god I don't want to see those feuds anymore. Sheamus? No thanks. I don't want to see him get raped just so Cena can massage his ego by getting his win back.
Randy Orton > This feud was supposed to be Austin/Rock of this era. HA! yeah right. The matches were terrible apart from the 60 minute one and that was mostly due to Orton's antics. Let me see... he locks him in the STF with about 7 seconds to go, he taps. LAME! The months before that, he is handcuffed to a post while Orton beats him with canes and everything. He somehow gets out of this, come on... how unrealistic. No wonder the adult fans tuned out when they saw this happening. They took 5 steps forward in the Attitude Era and then when this happened, they took 10 back. We don't want to see "say your prayers and never give up" faces in 2010. We want to see human beings we can relate to, not superheroes. Anyway Cena looked better than Orton here.
Chris Jericho > Yeah, Jericho has an awesome reign in 2008, complete with feud of the year with HBK, what happens? Cena returns and spoils it by taking the title off of him in his first night back. People complain about Triple H not losing to Jericho but I don't believe Jericho ever beat Cena either. Not since he went into Super-Cena mode. He always makes this guy look like an idiot.
CM Punk > Nobody remembers their last encounter? He beat CM Punk in 1:34. Yep, thats right. That's not 1 hour, 34 minutes. That is 1 minute and 34 seconds. It was the slammies, Cena went into vintage mode and made him tap like a bitch. Afterwards, he rambles on about NEVA GIVING UP!1 ---------------------------
So yeah. I really think John Cena has a say in whatnot. There's no way the company loves him this much. He's not at all special and he doesn't need to look THIS good to sell merchandise. I find it suspicious how nobody can look good against him. Don't you think it's a little weird?
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Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
R.I.P. Deadpool
Posts: 43,870
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Post by Krimzon on Apr 1, 2010 23:21:39 GMT -5
I take it you weren't around when Hulkamania was running wild? It's no different with Cena. He's "the guy." Of course they're going to make him seem untouchable. They want people to keep buying his crap and coming to cheer/boo him.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Apr 1, 2010 23:29:34 GMT -5
It's how WWE/F always books its top babyfaces.
I thought it was a crock load of shit back in the day that Bret Hart never lost definitively to Diesel.
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Gus Richlen Was Wrong
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
Fun while it lasted
Posts: 38,501
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Post by Gus Richlen Was Wrong on Apr 1, 2010 23:33:54 GMT -5
don't tell me you're on a massive anti-cena crusade again?! last time you did, the thread got shut down.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2010 23:34:25 GMT -5
Probably worth noting that the roll up win on Umaga(RIP) was on Pay Per View and Cena's only offense in that title match
If Cena has any say.............I doubt he uses it everything I've heard about him says he just says yes to whatever is asked of him and is why he got such a major push
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The Possum
Unicron
JBL stands for "Just Beat a Lizard".
Posts: 3,013
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Post by The Possum on Apr 1, 2010 23:34:42 GMT -5
I'm totally with you. I do think that "the guy" should look really strong, and even though I'm not a Cena fan, I think he should rarely be beaten, but when he gets beat, make it a legitimate loss. It just makes the heels look weak as crap, especially when they get a cheap win and then get eaten alive by Cena a few weeks later.
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Post by Barrock on Apr 1, 2010 23:42:38 GMT -5
Know what would be awesome and make me mark for Swagger? If he showed up on Monday and beat Cena in a match, Champ Vs. Champ. Just a wrestling match. No interference or stips or weapons used. Afterward Batista can come out and destroy Cena if he wants. Then Jericho can come out to attack Swagger. Then an Edge run in. End RAW with a complete brawl inside the ring. Tune in to Smackdown to see what happened.
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Post by Kris Kobain on Apr 2, 2010 0:09:02 GMT -5
It's the McMahon formula and goes back to the WWWF and Vincent J. McMahon. Have the heel cheat to win and play diirty for a while then have the face win the blowoff clean.
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Post by The Corporate Strudel on Apr 2, 2010 0:24:38 GMT -5
Why does everyone have tunnel vision on this topic? It's been that way since Hogan beat Shiek, it's how Vince envisions selling his lead babyface.
Hogan, Hart, Michaels, Austin, HHH and Cena.
Each one put the next over clean (excepting Hogan-Hart) and they essentially took the ball and rolled over the competition with it until the next guy was ready. It's the way McMahon has always sold his product. The lead babyface never loses clean, always overcomes the odds.
In ~2002-2005, they changed it up and had the heel (Hunter) typically getting beat clean and winning the title back with help. It's just the opposite of the same theory put into practice.
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Phosphor Glow
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Is a real girl!
Posts: 19,871
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Post by Phosphor Glow on Apr 2, 2010 1:07:05 GMT -5
Why does everyone have tunnel vision on this topic? It's been that way since Hogan beat Shiek, it's how Vince envisions selling his lead babyface. Hogan, Hart, Michaels, Austin, HHH and Cena. Each one put the next over clean (excepting Hogan-Hart) and they essentially took the ball and rolled over the competition with it until the next guy was ready. It's the way McMahon has always sold his product. The lead babyface never loses clean, always overcomes the odds. In ~2002-2005, they changed it up and had the heel (Hunter) typically getting beat clean and winning the title back with help. It's just the opposite of the same theory put into practice. This is exactly how I look at it. This isn't any different than it's always been, and it's not a really bad way to book things.
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Post by Kris Kobain on Apr 2, 2010 1:09:46 GMT -5
Why does everyone have tunnel vision on this topic? It's been that way since Hogan beat Shiek, it's how Vince envisions selling his lead babyface. Hogan, Hart, Michaels, Austin, HHH and Cena. Each one put the next over clean (excepting Hogan-Hart) and they essentially took the ball and rolled over the competition with it until the next guy was ready. It's the way McMahon has always sold his product. The lead babyface never loses clean, always overcomes the odds. In ~2002-2005, they changed it up and had the heel (Hunter) typically getting beat clean and winning the title back with help. It's just the opposite of the same theory put into practice. To be fair the majority of posts before yours said almost the exact thing you did so I don't know who "everyone" is that you're talking about.
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Post by rrm15 on Apr 2, 2010 1:46:10 GMT -5
When Cena stops being the WWE's biggest star, drawing the biggest audiences, and selling the most merchandise it will stop. And I disagree very much that Cena makes people look bad. Edge, Umaga, Swagger, Orton, and so many others have looked good against him. Hes the top guy, hes gonna win usually. Just how it is.
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Post by ritt works hard fo da chickens on Apr 2, 2010 4:20:43 GMT -5
Most people hated Edge before Cena made him. When he and Matt Hardy had the falling out over Lita, the fans sided with Hardy. It wasn't just an internet thing either, the fans were rabid at live events. People wanted Edge fired. He did manage to turn that into a sort of heel heat but he was still just a midcarder WWE kept trying to shove to the main event. He was the post attitude era Billy Gun. He couldn't ride Hogan's coat tails to the main event even. If it weren't for Chavo he'd have been considered the biggest flop from the Smackdown 6.
It wasn't just beating Cena. It was the entire feud that made Edge into a superstar.
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King Devitt
Grimlock
It gets better the longer you stare at it
Posts: 13,758
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Post by King Devitt on Apr 2, 2010 4:23:14 GMT -5
Hogan at least had the decency to hulk up.
Austin sold very well, but he was built as a badass so his resiliency worked.
Cena is goody two shoes, cheered by those who fairly look up to him and/or find him attractive, but i've wondered how many women who think Cena is the HAWTNESS can even name any of his finishing moves.
case in point, anyone can name dozens and dozens of times Cena has been beaten up over and over and gets up, zips his invisible jacket and hits his five knuckle shuffle, or his weak finishers, then smiles and looks completely fine. every single time.
see Swagger nailing him in the head and back with the briefcase as mentioned by the OP.
i'm tired of hearing about him being controversial. he's not. he'd eye candy to most, and looked up to by kids, which again is fine. but the audience that left, the ones that booed him in smark towns, are the ones who boo him b/c they don't respect him.
i understand his role, but like i said any of the previous main eventers could work a match, and make their opponients look good. HHH should be forever hated for the politics and way he handled business, but he's respected for his ability in the ring and his knack for making opponents good when he wants to.
Cena seemingly just can't. some is the writers fault, i think it's mostly his. When they chant "you can't wrestle" and he smiles, it annoys me.
i won't like him until he either goes heel or starts wearing a cape to the ring. no joke.
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Dave FCIC
Mephisto
I said nice one bruva!
Posts: 714
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Post by Dave FCIC on Apr 2, 2010 4:33:16 GMT -5
Cena winning clean constantly does annoy me, but because he pretty much never loses I think that regardless of whether it is a clean loss or not, a lot of the superstars still can look good against him. I think it was already said but Randy Orton looked great against him in some matches, even ones he lost. He got put over in the way of a cold, calculated, do whatever it takes to win kinda heel, which is probably what WWE were looking for him to be.
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Post by héad.casé on Apr 2, 2010 4:36:35 GMT -5
Didn't Cena do an interview where he said that going back to family friendly programming was his suggestion because he was noticing more and more kids in the crowds and Vince went with it? Other than that i've not heard anything about Cena playing politics at all, but i'm sure he has the stroke to if he really wanted to.
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Post by Kris Kobain on Apr 2, 2010 5:38:45 GMT -5
Hogan at least had the decency to hulk up. Austin sold very well, but he was built as a badass so his resiliency worked. Cena is goody two shoes, cheered by those who fairly look up to him and/or find him attractive, but i've wondered how many women who think Cena is the HAWTNESS can even name any of his finishing moves. case in point, anyone can name dozens and dozens of times Cena has been beaten up over and over and gets up, zips his invisible jacket and hits his five knuckle shuffle, or his weak finishers, then smiles and looks completely fine. every single time. see Swagger nailing him in the head and back with the briefcase as mentioned by the OP. i'm tired of hearing about him being controversial. he's not. he'd eye candy to most, and looked up to by kids, which again is fine. but the audience that left, the ones that booed him in smark towns, are the ones who boo him b/c they don't respect him. i understand his role, but like i said any of the previous main eventers could work a match, and make their opponients look good. HHH should be forever hated for the politics and way he handled business, but he's respected for his ability in the ring and his knack for making opponents good when he wants to. Cena seemingly just can't. some is the writers fault, i think it's mostly his. When they chant "you can't wrestle" and he smiles, it annoys me. i won't like him until he either goes heel or starts wearing a cape to the ring. no joke. What are you on about? Hulking up was the most retarded thing ever. I'm saying that as someone who was a kid in the '80s and '90s. I hated Hogan and still do. Cena is more exciting and a better wrestler than Hogan ever was. Triple H is boring as hell in the ring too.. Here's an idea. Let's have DX beat up the whole tag division because that's believable. As far as the fans that find him attractive and not knowing his moves. The same could be said for a guy like John Morrison or the Miz. Cena sold to the Big Show when he was feuding with The Miz. Cena sold to Orton. He wrestles a brawler style same as Hunter and The Rock and later Steve Austin. He's not expected to be the most technical guy out there. I'm not even a Cena fan but you people are ridiculous with your arguments. It's just "cool" to hate him so you all jump on the bandwagon and spew the same thing over and over. I'm waiting for one of you to have an original thought. Starting......................now!
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jamielowndes {N}
Unicron
The following post has been paid for by the Nexus World Order
Posts: 3,240
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Post by jamielowndes {N} on Apr 2, 2010 5:40:35 GMT -5
I hate the jorts as well, partially because no guy over the age of 18 with a full time job wears jorts.
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perkleton
AC Slater
awww dick foot
Posts: 213
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Post by perkleton on Apr 2, 2010 6:18:07 GMT -5
i think its definitely a bandwaggon of cena hating, as grown ups we can look at it and see that he has his role and thats fine, cant we just enjoy the rest of the show/card? Probably the fact that hes less interesting and is more hogan-esque than austin might annoy people more.
i think people can be biased though, personally i can enjoy a cena ppv match and hes not as terrible as some people like to think.
edit: he could definitely be used to put people over a little more to ease the pain, the CM punk match mentioned in here is pretty mind boggling
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Post by Jason on Apr 2, 2010 6:33:10 GMT -5
Hogan at least had the decency to hulk up. Austin sold very well, but he was built as a badass so his resiliency worked. Cena is goody two shoes, cheered by those who fairly look up to him and/or find him attractive, but i've wondered how many women who think Cena is the HAWTNESS can even name any of his finishing moves. case in point, anyone can name dozens and dozens of times Cena has been beaten up over and over and gets up, zips his invisible jacket and hits his five knuckle shuffle, or his weak finishers, then smiles and looks completely fine. every single time. see Swagger nailing him in the head and back with the briefcase as mentioned by the OP. i'm tired of hearing about him being controversial. he's not. he'd eye candy to most, and looked up to by kids, which again is fine. but the audience that left, the ones that booed him in smark towns, are the ones who boo him b/c they don't respect him. i understand his role, but like i said any of the previous main eventers could work a match, and make their opponients look good. HHH should be forever hated for the politics and way he handled business, but he's respected for his ability in the ring and his knack for making opponents good when he wants to. Cena seemingly just can't. some is the writers fault, i think it's mostly his. When they chant "you can't wrestle" and he smiles, it annoys me. i won't like him until he either goes heel or starts wearing a cape to the ring. no joke. What are you on about? Hulking up was the most retarded thing ever. I'm saying that as someone who was a kid in the '80s and '90s. I hated Hogan and still do. Cena is more exciting and a better wrestler than Hogan ever was. Triple H is boring as hell in the ring too.. Here's an idea. Let's have DX beat up the whole tag division because that's believable. As far as the fans that find him attractive and not knowing his moves. The same could be said for a guy like John Morrison or the Miz. Cena sold to the Big Show when he was feuding with The Miz. Cena sold to Orton. He wrestles a brawler style same as Hunter and The Rock and later Steve Austin. He's not expected to be the most technical guy out there. I'm not even a Cena fan but you people are ridiculous with your arguments. It's just "cool" to hate him so you all jump on the bandwagon and spew the same thing over and over. I'm waiting for one of you to have an original thought. Starting......................now! You're kidding? Cena more exciting than Hogan? Hogan had the crowd in the palm of his hands just by pointing his finger. Cena does his little protobomb or whatever he calls it, gets up and looks innocently at a mixed crowd full of A. kids cheering him and B. smarks booing him. I find Cena's "thing" more annoying than Hogan, why? Because they actually acknowledged Hogan was hulking up. It was a huge part of the character, when Cena does his "hulk up", it is basically unacknowledged in the "WWE Universe" and they go on about how Cena wrestled a damn good match. Oh yeah, Cena sold that punt in the Hell in a Cell PPV very well. Randy Orton missed the guy's head took his head clean off and Cena got straight up after the match was over and did his signature disappointed look sold it to perfection. The move that put Triple H, RVD, Shawn Michaels, Ted Dibiase, Cody Rhodes and others on the shelf for months and Cena gets straight up after it and acts like nothing happened sells it for months on end. Big Show? Yeah, he got thrown through a light and returned the next night on speghetti legs, all to cost Big Show a match and to smirk about it afterwards had to take weeks off, before returning for his big match against the Showster. Where have I been?!
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