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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Apr 4, 2010 12:28:35 GMT -5
Really the argument that WWE doesn't make new stars is just so massively flawed. Their entire business plan is based around it. They have a clear system for doing so, and they also have to make money.
I really don't know how people can say they don't. It's just so wrong. There are arguments like 'they've waited until they got desperate' which is really just the company milking the current stars for all they are worth. It's always been that way and it's just good business sense.
There are arguments like 'they give them the title but don't give them a character to make me care' but it's all about pacing. If someone like Sheamus has been on the roster for 4 months, he's got maybe 10 plus years in the company. There is plenty they will be able to do with him, but if they want to push him right now there simply isn't time to fit everything in to that few months. It took Orton 8 years to get to the character that he has perfected currently.
There are arguments saying the company doesn't push new stars because giving them the title isn't enough. Well...why do you think they do it? No Punk wasn't on Batista's level when he faced him, but he'd only been on the roster for 2 years at that point. He wasn't supposed to be on Batista's level, but he was supposed to hold the title to provide some variety, allow other main eventers to have different feuds (something people also accuse the company of not doing) and to establish Punk. He's then credible in the eyes of fans, and can be pushed further from there. I'll bet anything they give him another reign soon where he will be on the level of someone like a heel Edge, because he's been more established.
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Post by wwefan78 on Apr 4, 2010 13:18:21 GMT -5
The problem isn't WWE inability to push new guys per se, rather HOW they choose to do it. The stop-start pushes get really annoying at times and then some guys get pushed to the top without any build-up leading up to it. I'm more a fan of the slow and steady push, unless WWE has someone really special (Brock Lesnar-level) who need to make an impact right away. I enjoy the slow and steady pushes of people like Miz, Morrison and Punk among others. While Punk is a stop-start push borderline case, the guy gets promo-time every week so I suppose WWE has faith in him as a part of the ME-scene at some point again.
As stated, not a fan of the mega-push out of nowhere a la Sheamus and Swagger. While Sheamus had something resembling a push leading up to his titlewin, Swagger was pretty much a glorified jobber on RAW lately until WWE suddenly decided to give him a MITB-win and WHC. It's like "we know this guy was a jabroni until recently, but NOW he has a new attitude and is champ so please take him seriously". Damned if you do and damned if you don't. At least WWE is pushing new talent. Some get a rocket strapped to their ass and some have to work their way up. I'm a fan of the latter, but any fresh blood moving up the card is a good sign so I'll take a wait and see approach
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Maniac Mitch
Mephisto
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Post by Maniac Mitch on Apr 4, 2010 14:59:38 GMT -5
The problem isn't WWE inability to push new guys per se, rather HOW they choose to do it. The stop-start pushes get really annoying at times and then some guys get pushed to the top without any build-up leading up to it. I'm more a fan of the slow and steady push, unless WWE has someone really special (Brock Lesnar-level) who need to make an impact right away. I enjoy the slow and steady pushes of people like Miz, Morrison and Punk among others. While Punk is a stop-start push borderline case, the guy gets promo-time every week so I suppose WWE has faith in him as a part of the ME-scene at some point again. As stated, not a fan of the mega-push out of nowhere a la Sheamus and Swagger. While Sheamus had something resembling a push leading up to his titlewin, Swagger was pretty much a glorified jobber on RAW lately until WWE suddenly decided to give him a MITB-win and WHC. It's like "we know this guy was a jabroni until recently, but NOW he has a new attitude and is champ so please take him seriously". Damned if you do and damned if you don't. At least WWE is pushing new talent. Some get a rocked strapped to their ass and some have to work their way up. I'm a fan of the latter, but any fresh blood moving up the card is a good sign so I'll take a wait and see approach Yeah that's my biggest problem. They just give up on guys too early. MVP, Kofi, and Swagger were all on a huge roll going into last summer and somewhere along the lines the WWE just gave up and shuffled them to the back of the line. MVP and Swagger had a great angle going and it looked to be the start of a Rock/Triple H rivalry where they would climb the ranks opposed to each other. Then, one match later and it's all forgotten about. Kofi had a great angle going with Orton, but they refused to make him look like a threat in their matches and then blamed Kofi when he didn't get over. That's also my problem with Swagger having the title now. It would make sense if he hadn't been mired in midcard limbo for the past six months. You can get away with hotshotting the title onto a guy once he's established. Nobody (unless sour grapes are involved) questions a guy like Jericho getting the belt out of nowhere because he's an established player who the fans can buy stepping into the ME at any time. To continue this example, in order for Jericho to get to that point he had to be put over by other top stars. And timing played a very important part in his first (actual...I don't count his expunged from the records books reign against Triple H) tile victory. He continuously trumpets that he beat Austin and Rock in one night for good reason. That's what made him a major player. However, it was the wave of momentum going into that event that also made Jericho's win mean something. Think about what would have happened to Batista if he didn't go over Triple H cleanly at Mania 21. He was riding a huge wave of momentum and that win cemented him as a top tier player. WWE's problem is not that they don't push new guys, it's that they've been half assing it lately. As mentioned they start and stop instead of committing to it. Also, just to make this response even more long winded, they should let these guys find themselves before thrusting them into high level positions. CM Punk is playing essentially the role that he'd been refining for years in the indies. Granted, it's taking a different route now with the addition of the Cult Leader aspect, but it's at least something he's comfortable playing. Once MVP ditched the sports superstar gimmick and started talking about his real life story we saw him really come to life and become interesting. It's been said a million times and it bears repeating again. WWE needs to put more faith in the instincts and input of their talent. If the current mindset was still in place in the late '90's we would have been stuck with Suckus Maximus Farooq Assad well into the new millenium who would have been a complete missed oppertunity because he didn't get over. If the talent believe in what they're doing, the people will pick up on that and the talent will get over.
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Post by Robbymac on Apr 4, 2010 15:11:43 GMT -5
In reverse order 2010: Jack Swagger 2009: Sheamus 2008: CM Punk 2007: Bobby Lashley 2006: Edge & Rob Van Dam 2005: John Cena & Batista 2004: Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, JBL
Just over the past few years this is a quick list of people they attempted to elevate to the main event. As the record shows some were successful, and some weren't. But they make an effort to do so every year. There's only so many spots, and so many guys they can try with. The track record is a lot better than many members of the anti-WWE brigade would have you believe.
The real problem with the "ZOMG THEY DON'T MAKE NEW STARZ!!!11" crowd is the guys they are elevating aren't the Evan Bourne's and Daniel Bryan's of the World.
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Apr 4, 2010 15:36:03 GMT -5
The problem isn't WWE inability to push new guys per se, rather HOW they choose to do it. The stop-start pushes get really annoying at times and then some guys get pushed to the top without any build-up leading up to it. I'm more a fan of the slow and steady push, unless WWE has someone really special (Brock Lesnar-level) who need to make an impact right away. I enjoy the slow and steady pushes of people like Miz, Morrison and Punk among others. While Punk is a stop-start push borderline case, the guy gets promo-time every week so I suppose WWE has faith in him as a part of the ME-scene at some point again. As stated, not a fan of the mega-push out of nowhere a la Sheamus and Swagger. While Sheamus had something resembling a push leading up to his titlewin, Swagger was pretty much a glorified jobber on RAW lately until WWE suddenly decided to give him a MITB-win and WHC. It's like "we know this guy was a jabroni until recently, but NOW he has a new attitude and is champ so please take him seriously". Damned if you do and damned if you don't. At least WWE is pushing new talent. Some get a rocked strapped to their ass and some have to work their way up. I'm a fan of the latter, but any fresh blood moving up the card is a good sign so I'll take a wait and see approach Yeah that's my biggest problem. They just give up on guys too early. MVP, Kofi, and Swagger were all on a huge roll going into last summer and somewhere along the lines the WWE just gave up and shuffled them to the back of the line. MVP and Swagger had a great angle going and it looked to be the start of a Rock/Triple H rivalry where they would climb the ranks opposed to each other. Then, one match later and it's all forgotten about. Kofi had a great angle going with Orton, but they refused to make him look like a threat in their matches and then blamed Kofi when he didn't get over. That's also my problem with Swagger having the title now. It would make sense if he hadn't been mired in midcard limbo for the past six months. You can get away with hotshotting the title onto a guy once he's established. Nobody (unless sour grapes are involved) questions a guy like Jericho getting the belt out of nowhere because he's an established player who the fans can buy stepping into the ME at any time. To continue this example, in order for Jericho to get to that point he had to be put over by other top stars. And timing played a very important part in his first (actual...I don't count his expunged from the records books reign against Triple H) tile victory. He continuously trumpets that he beat Austin and Rock in one night for good reason. That's what made him a major player. However, it was the wave of momentum going into that event that also made Jericho's win mean something. Think about what would have happened to Batista if he didn't go over Triple H cleanly at Mania 21. He was riding a huge wave of momentum and that win cemented him as a top tier player. WWE's problem is not that they don't push new guys, it's that they've been half assing it lately. As mentioned they start and stop instead of committing to it. Also, just to make this response even more long winded, they should let these guys find themselves before thrusting them into high level positions. CM Punk is playing essentially the role that he'd been refining for years in the indies. Granted, it's taking a different route now with the addition of the Cult Leader aspect, but it's at least something he's comfortable playing. Once MVP ditched the sports superstar gimmick and started talking about his real life story we saw him really come to life and become interesting. It's been said a million times and it bears repeating again. WWE needs to put more faith in the instincts and input of their talent. If the current mindset was still in place in the late '90's we would have been stuck with Suckus Maximus Farooq Assad well into the new millenium who would have been a complete missed oppertunity because he didn't get over. If the talent believe in what they're doing, the people will pick up on that and the talent will get over. Why do you think they do this though? This is a company that has years and years of procedures and systems in place in order to produce their shows, nothing is so much on a whim as people think. With Kofi, and the yo-yo push argument in general, they moved him up to see what he could do. Everyone wanted the Cena vs Orton feud to end, so they end it, which means Orton needs a face to feud with. Cena went to DX and then Sheamus, so the next available face was Kofi. If Kofi does well, they know they can trust him to be a true main eventer months down the line. If they were to sustain Kofi's push and not 'yo-yo' it that means Kofi would have had to be in one of the main event matches of Wrestlemania. Now I love Kofi, and indeed in December I thought that Orton vs Kofi for the title could have truly established Kofi and been a fun match. However, I think everyone in their heart of hearts knows that Cena vs Batista would have made far more money and captured the target audience's interest more than Kofi vs Orton. So Kofi has to drop down again. It doesn't mean that Kofi won't ever get a push again, but Wrestlemania (and Summerslam in the Summer) are about putting on the biggest matches they can - and that makes sense - so some guys have to get dropped down so the money makers can be brought back up. With Swagger getting the title, yes he's been a mid-carder and not in world title contention for the last couple of months, but he's always been able to have competitive matches with the main eventers, right up to Cena. But with his world title win, we aren't supposed to believe he can outwrestle Jericho and Edge and win, we are supposed to believe he could win a lottery of match (which as a former ECW champion, is possible) and was able to cash in on an injured Jericho. Over this reign and in the months afterwards he will be made to be more credible, but right now we haven't been asked to believe anything that is too much of a stretch. With Sheamus, he never pinned Cena, but even before that we didn't know if we wouldn't be able to or not, because he never lost on Raw. And when people say the company 'shouldn't' be doing what they are, with quick pushes etc - who says? Did ratings and buy-rates tank when Sheamus became a main eventer? No they didn't, and he's now very over. As for gimmicks and what-not, well I'd say now more than ever they are giving their performers more freedom, or at least an on screen character that matches their personality. Swagger's an amateur stand-out, so his gimmick reflects it etc. There's not really anyone I can think of that's got a gimmick that's far too removed from what they seem to be like as people that it doesn't work.
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Post by seamonsters on Apr 4, 2010 15:36:44 GMT -5
Vince had no choice doing it before in the early-mid 90s with bret and Shawn? Fixed. Hogan's having a sabbatical. Sid's been fired. Warrior's been fired. Davey Boy's been fired. Flair's going back to WCW. Luger's signed, but recovering from smashing his arm in a motorbike accident, and would need time to be built up anyway. Razor's signed, but just debuted. Yoko's signed but hasn't debuted yet. Macho Man's only wrestling occasionally, soon to be concentrating on announcing (presumably injured). Mr Perfect hasn't wrestled in over a year, and there's no telling what schedule he can handle when he does return. The Undertaker is over, and a former world champion, but can't work matches that last too long because of a nagging back injury. Every main eventer is gone, or going, and most of the ideal replacements are gone, going, not ready, or in the case of your two ex-champs - working lighter schedules. Oh, and there's the whole steroid investigation going on. So who do you put in the main event? The most reliable over worker you've got. Bret Hart was over, a good worker (although that didn't matter too much), didn't fit the stereotype of a 'roid freak, and was as reliable as they come (He no-showed once in thirteen years - in 1986). I'm guessing that Bret was supposed to be a transitional champion - after all he went a year without even getting a rematch, feuding in the midcard with Lawler instead. .
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by AriadosMan on Apr 4, 2010 15:55:13 GMT -5
Except spot monkeys can easily get over if they are pushed right over their careers (RVD, Sabu, Jeff Hardy).
I can understand some of the others, but Bourne is a missed opportunity that will get even worse when/if Justin Gabriel gets over and has a good push.
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Post by hajimenoippo on Apr 4, 2010 16:27:50 GMT -5
I think the time for Swagger to be built was after being sent to RAW, but it didn't happen. He was jobbed to oblivion.
This year they've been rebuilding him, and had the chance to make him mean something with MITB, and now he enters into a feud with Jericho and Edge...
So he's good.
Shaemus is in a better spot now as a monster heel with his feud with HHH, Cena, and Orton.
We've had Orton, Punk, Mysterio, Batista, Cena, and Lashley break out since '04, and that's about it as far as new main eventers.
We've had Big Show and Kane in the upper-mid forever it seems.
Ahwell, WWE has done a good job in building up main eventers, and I can see them building thier midcarders way better.
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Just Jay
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Post by Just Jay on Apr 4, 2010 16:54:57 GMT -5
People have been all over WWE's case for not elevating new stars, blah blah blah...
But what I never hear is about the work ethic of these guys. No, I'm not talking about workrate. I've had it explained to me many times and its not something I particularly care about. Rather, what I'm talking about is these guys actually stepping up to the plate. And you can see the results of that on TV.
Now I'm not saying that nearly everyone you see on WWE programming is the result of the fruits of the labor. What I'm suggesting is that most of the people who are in prominent roles are carrying the ball they were given. Triple H constantly says that Sheamus is a guy he sees himself in. He goes to shows when he isn't wrestling and he's always studying. The Miz is another guy who really stepped it up in terms of his own character development, going from a goofy former reality star to a flamboyant "I'm better than the rest and you know it" kind of guy. This is what these midcarders mostly lack. There is a creative board, and while its not perfect, I doubt there's anything that bars them from talking with the creative team and seeing more ways to boost their own characters.
So I think if anything, Sheamus is a damn good example of how to become the future. Maybe it shouldn't be every example, but it an example nonetheless. I'm sure Swagger recently stepped his game up to get into the position he's in now. He's got most of the credentials down anywhere.
What I'm speculating is that the lack of new maineventers might be very well to "Carlito's Syndrome."
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Post by hajimenoippo on Apr 4, 2010 17:15:11 GMT -5
Ted DiBiase's words of "It's not the most talented, it's the most passionate" seem to be the golden rule.
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Post by Robbymac on Apr 4, 2010 17:37:28 GMT -5
We've had Orton, Punk, Mysterio, Batista, Cena, and Lashley break out since '04, and that's about it as far as new main eventers. You forgot Edge & JBL (and arguably Eddie Guerrero) Can you name any six year period, in any mainstream promotion, where EIGHT different people broke through as new main eventers? People act like every year the ENTIRE main event should be recycled. That's completely ridiculous.
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Post by hajimenoippo on Apr 4, 2010 17:41:33 GMT -5
I think the way the fans are way overreacting on the internet.
They've built so many money makers since 2004, and the guys that have stuck with WWE have often been pushed to the top if they still have that passion for it.
Guys like Kofi, MVP, R-truth, Shelton will definitely be helpful midcarders-upper midcarders for the next 4-5 years.
Again when we're looking for main eventers we're looking long term and short term. WWE can build who they want and the audience will react the way WWE wants them to.
Guys like Kofi are still young and can be pushed at any time in the future.
MVP, truth, and SHelton have age against them.
Heck I see this Summerslam being Ezekiel Jackson vs. John Cena in the main event.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on Apr 4, 2010 17:42:36 GMT -5
I really think it's to early to say that Sheamus and Swagger have been made top stars yet. Yes they both won a World title, but these days it takes a little more than that. I'm not saying it wont happen, though.
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Post by Robbymac on Apr 4, 2010 17:45:54 GMT -5
I really think it's to early to say that Sheamus and Swagger have been made top stars yet. Yes they both won a World title, but these days it takes a little more than that. I'm not saying it wont happen, though. You can't "make" a star. You can give a guy the opportunity, but its up to the wrestler to seize it. Sheamus and Swagger have both been given that opportunity. WWE can't be blamed if they fail from this point on. If they're good enough, they'll get over. If they're not, they won't
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Post by hajimenoippo on Apr 4, 2010 17:48:43 GMT -5
This feud with HHH where he'll most likely DESTROY HHH in a Tables or Extreme Rules match will solidify Sheamus as a main event player.
The feud with Edge and Jericho will see how much chops Swagger has in promos and if he can keep up in-ring with Christian and Matt Hardy in his rookie year, he should have no problems with Jericho and Edge helping him look legit in the ring.
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Post by wwefan78 on Apr 4, 2010 18:26:42 GMT -5
People have been all over WWE's case for not elevating new stars, blah blah blah... But what I never hear is about the work ethic of these guys. No, I'm not talking about workrate. I've had it explained to me many times and its not something I particularly care about. Rather, what I'm talking about is these guys actually stepping up to the plate. And you can see the results of that on TV. What I'm speculating is that the lack of new maineventers might be very well to "Carlito's Syndrome." These are fair points and something fans tend to forget. It's not all about workrate, having the right look, charisma and micskills. While these things still are important, a lot of wrestlers who have ALL of this perfected, might not have shown enough workethic and willingness to step up to the plate. Or they simply rub some people the wrong way for whatever reason. Even if we can only speculate I think it's safe to say that a wrestler looking to get a push always benefits from having a strong backer in the lockerroom. A person who that can vouch for you when managment wants a second opionion asking "do you think this guy can handle it? "does he have what it takes?" Obviously smooth politicking and getting along with the "right people" helps too. Let's look at our prime examples: Sheamus and Swagger. Sheamus has been described as someone very dedicated to his craft, going above and beyond to improve, asking and listening for advice from anyone willing to help. Of course such workethic will get noticed and if someone like (ooh let's say HHH) sees it, chances are he'll give a favorable review when asked. Swagger is tougher, but let's remember he's one of few legit athletes WWE has recruited as of late. Jim Ross was one of his biggest backers for obvious reasons and happen to believe that his word still holds some water in WWE when it comes to evaluating talent. Swagger was given the ECW-title only 5 months into his WWE-career which in retrospect was too much too fast. He did have a few stellar matches with Christian who can make anyone look good. 2009 draft came around and Swagger was shipped to RAW. He toiled around the US-title scene for most of the year with a standout match against Cena which I think opened a lot of eyes. In it's own stupid way I firmly believe that Swagger was put through midcard-hell just to see if how he'd handle it after the initial push on ECW. Obviously he stuck it out and improved enough for WWE to be willing to take a chance on him and let him run with the ball so to speak. To conclude this long-ass rant, we can complain about WWE not pushing new guys all we want, fact is still that we don't know how many of them are actually able to handle it and what kind of workethic they have shown so far. Not just the part we see on TV, but all the rest going on backstage, behind the scenes and outside the arena. I think WWE these days looks at the person behind the wrestler looking for people who are levelheaded and humble, not likely to let a push get to their head. I think Ted Dibiase said it best in his HOF speech: " Be passionate about what you do, work hard and persevere. It's not always the greatest talented person that gets the job, it's the guy who is the most dependable and has the biggest hart" Even if I'm contradicting myself I want to believe Sheamus, Swagger (hell I'll throw in the Miz too) are where they are today because the DID show passion, workethic and persevered (all in different ways)
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spagett
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Post by spagett on Apr 4, 2010 18:27:15 GMT -5
We've had Orton, Punk, Mysterio, Batista, Cena, and Lashley break out since '04, and that's about it as far as new main eventers. You forgot Edge & JBL (and arguably Eddie Guerrero) Can you name any six year period, in any mainstream promotion, where EIGHT different people broke through as new main eventers? People act like every year the ENTIRE main event should be recycled. That's completely ridiculous. From 1996 to 2002 the WWE made into new main eventers HBK Foley Austin Rock Triple H Kurt Angle Jericho Kane Brock Lesnar Big Show (Kinda) Whilst having Undertaker go from being the deadman, to the evil Lord of Darkness and then the American Bad ass. As opposed to the exact same deadman gimmick Undertaker has had for 6 years without any slight tweaks or changes from 2004. All of those main eventers were seen as legit too. They were not hot shotted the title after a month or after a year of being stuck in the midcard doing absolutely nothing, well except for Brock who I think we all know was a very rare case. And even then by the time he lifted the title at Summerslam 2002 he had beaten Hulk Hogan and The Rock cleanly which is a bit better than putting Santino through a table... People are not saying they want 8 new main eventers by 2011 and that all the old guard should be retired. They just want some fresh faces in the desperately stale main event scene that is 2010.
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Post by Robbymac on Apr 4, 2010 18:35:01 GMT -5
You forgot Edge & JBL (and arguably Eddie Guerrero) Can you name any six year period, in any mainstream promotion, where EIGHT different people broke through as new main eventers? People act like every year the ENTIRE main event should be recycled. That's completely ridiculous. From 1996 to 2002 the WWE made into new main eventers HBK Foley Austin Rock Triple H Kurt Angle Jericho Kane Brock Lesnar Big Show (Kinda) Whilst having Undertaker go from being the deadman, to the evil Lord of Darkness and then the American Bad ass. As opposed to the exact same deadman gimmick Undertaker has had for 6 years without any slight tweaks or changes from 2004. All of those main eventers were seen as legit too. They were not hot shotted the title after a month or after a year of being stuck in the midcard doing absolutely nothing, well except for Brock who I think we all know was a very rare case. And even then by the time he lifted the title at Summerslam 2002 he had beaten Hulk Hogan and The Rock cleanly which is a bit better than putting Santino through a table... People are not saying they want 8 new main eventers by 2011 and that all the old guard should be retired. They just want some fresh faces in the desperately stale main event scene that is 2010. 2010 isn't over yet. Soooo...we can count Sheamus and Swagger if they get over. I can also count Eddie Guerrero. Its not WWE's fault he died. Even efforts were made to put Benoit, Kennedy, and Rob Van Dam into ME spots. Again its not their fault they failed. Also HBK was already main eventing in '95. Wrestlemania XI? Kane is a huuuuuuge stretch. Big Show showed up as a main eventer from another promotion seen at the time as the equal of WWE. Something they don't have the benefit of now. Really what you'll find here is from 96-02 they just hit the jackpot on EVERYONE they tried. from 04-10 they have had a few misses. Either the guy didn't get over like they'd like (Benoit), Died (Guerrero), F***ed up (RVD), Couldn't stay healthy (Kennedy), or just didn't have the passion for the business (Lashley) I fail to see how we can blame WWE when they've tried, and it just didn't work for a variety of reasons. They got incredibly lucky in the attitude era, and as a result they got a boom period out of it.
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
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Post by spagett on Apr 4, 2010 18:49:21 GMT -5
From 1996 to 2002 the WWE made into new main eventers HBK Foley Austin Rock Triple H Kurt Angle Jericho Kane Brock Lesnar Big Show (Kinda) Whilst having Undertaker go from being the deadman, to the evil Lord of Darkness and then the American Bad ass. As opposed to the exact same deadman gimmick Undertaker has had for 6 years without any slight tweaks or changes from 2004. All of those main eventers were seen as legit too. They were not hot shotted the title after a month or after a year of being stuck in the midcard doing absolutely nothing, well except for Brock who I think we all know was a very rare case. And even then by the time he lifted the title at Summerslam 2002 he had beaten Hulk Hogan and The Rock cleanly which is a bit better than putting Santino through a table... People are not saying they want 8 new main eventers by 2011 and that all the old guard should be retired. They just want some fresh faces in the desperately stale main event scene that is 2010. 2010 isn't over yet. Soooo...we can count Sheamus and Swagger if they get over. I can also count Eddie Guerrero. Its not WWE's fault he died. Even efforts were made to put Benoit, Kennedy, and Rob Van Dam into ME spots. Again its not their fault they failed. Also HBK was already main eventing in '95. Wrestlemania XI? Kane is a huuuuuuge stretch. Big Show showed up as a main eventer from another promotion seen at the time as the equal of WWE. Something they don't have the benefit of now. Really what you'll find here is from 96-02 they just hit the jackpot on EVERYONE they tried. from 04-10 they have had a few misses. Either the guy didn't get over like they'd like (Benoit), Died (Guerrero), F***ed up (RVD), Couldn't stay healthy (Kennedy), or just didn't have the passion for the business (Lashley) I fail to see how we can blame WWE when they've tried, and it just didn't work for a variety of reasons. They got incredibly lucky in the attitude era, and as a result they got a boom period out of it. You asked the question and I answered it. Yes from 1996 to 2002 the WWE created more than 8 main eventers. I would not argue Kane was a huge stretch. From his debut in 1997 to about 2000 he was huge. He certainly main evented at least 3 ppvs in 1998 winning the WWF title from Austin to boot. I'm pretty sure Wrestlemania 11 was the only time HBK main evented a show in 1995, and he lost. it wasn't until 1996 that he was officially made The Man. Am not saying it is easy to make main event stars. Am not even saying the WWE hasn't been unlucky in that the few people they have tried to make big has backfired. The fact is the majority of them have backfired leading to a very stale main event. Just because it hasn't worked out a few times doesn't mean the WWE should give up. You can argue the WWE has tried to make new stars. I can't see how anyone could argue the main event scene we are left with in 2010 is anything other than stale even if it isn't totally the WWE's fault.
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Apr 4, 2010 18:50:39 GMT -5
To accusations of WWE's stale main event scene:
We've got a recently turned Orton A recently turned Edge A recently turned Batista
Now with turns they are essentially playing new characters, or at least characters with significant tweaks and different motivations for their actions.
We also have a recently elevated Sheamus And a recently elevated Swagger
We have Jericho in the form of his career, playing a character that's got him more main event credibility than any other.
We have CM Punk currently playing one of the most interesting and deep characters we've seen for years.
And we also have Morrison, Drew McIntyre, Miz, Christian, Kofi, Ted and Cody all on the cusp of being in the main event. Some closer than others but it looks like these are going to be the next crew, along with maybe Ziggler.
We've got HHH, Cena and Rey Mysterio as main eventers that are currently running what would typically be classed as 'stale' gimmicks, although in the case of HHH his heel character is played out far more, and he's just come out of his DX run. Rey just wouldn't work as a heel so it would be pointless turning him, and Cena is the face of the company and won't be turned until it is right for the direction of the business. And I've totally forgotten about Taker, although he has a mystique about his current character that like Rey simply wouldn't work as a heel.
Not to mention the fact that they created an entire show for the sole purpose of CREATING NEW STARS.
In maybe...2007 they could definately be accused of having a stale main event scene, even though it would be no fault of their own considering injuries, lack of passion, suspensions, deaths or a simple failure to get over. Heck even mid 2009 they seemed to struggle a bit. But no-one can say they 'aren't trying', or have 'given up' or anything like that, because the current scene we have not only has some characters that really aren't stale, but we have a lot of guys who truly look like they have the potential to step up in the future, which a few years ago - certainly post Invasion until about 2007 - it seemed like there was a dearth of talent. Infact I'd go as far to say we are currently seeing the benefits of the company being able to have weeded out all the talent that they acquired that didn't really 'fit' with their image of a star, and have now built a roster from their own developmental system that does. For better or worse, in the companies' opinion they have now got some potential stars that could work in the main event on their shows.
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