Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2010 4:12:57 GMT -5
I remember when Lance criticized TNA once and Disco Inferno took him to task about it. Disco tried to write up an editorial calmly explaining where Lance was wrong but he still put in the whole, "You didn't draw, so your opinion doesn't count" argument. Even when he said earlier that Russo had so much confidence in Team Canada that he put half the belts on Lance. Disco Inferno said this, that Lance couldn't draw. Let that sink in for a bit.
Lance didn't levy a personal attack on the talent, blaming how they were booked instead. The first thing Disco did was levy a personal attack. I don't know what their prior relationship was before the criticism started except for this one piece of info Lance stated on his website: Disco was the first person to take the Rolling Half Crab in WCW after being asked what he'd rather take, the crab or the cradle piledriver. Disco chose the crab and that's what he got. Storm cared enough to be a professional in that instance but, apparently, that was lost on Disco.
Disco would go on to defend TNA quite blindly, talking down any criticism he would get from Lance and others. Until, of course, he was fired for illegal gambling.
Here's the deal: if you want to be the number one promotion in the country, you're going to have to deal with your critics. When you just flat out say, "Who the hell are you to tell us how to run our company? You never drew." that makes you seem really, really bush league. Truly secure companies (and WWE is guilty of the same sort of criticism) can take it. Those who can't and want the critics silent have something to hide, some truth they have to own up to.
|
|
|
Post by jobsquad on Feb 28, 2010 4:15:36 GMT -5
I would go as far as saying Storm should be a producer/creative team supervisor. The man knows his stuff.
|
|
|
Post by poi zen rana on Feb 28, 2010 5:03:20 GMT -5
This doesn't apply to every single fan, but the overall fanbase tends to have an...overly protective attitude to TNA that is noticeable. IF WWE was the same way there would have been alot more negative reaction whenever I put out a post criticizing the Sheamus run, for example. I just find this comment funny after reading a huge post in the WWE section where someone complained that Cole had the "channel change heat" on NXT, and that poster was then met by a large amount of very focal WWE defenders who claimed that Cole was at the top of his game and a great heel. Many said the Cole is heel storyline playing out was great. Many called the OP a mark for disliking the heel. So I don't really agree with your assessment that TNA's fans are more overly protective than other fans. I readily admit the parts of TNA I don't like and if I disagree with a complaint against TNA I will usually voice my opinion. I don't think this means I am overly protective. As far as what lance said, let me start by saying I love lance. Easily in my top ten wrestlers of all times list. I disagree with what he said here but not because I am "overly protective of TNA " and not because I find him unqualified in the areas of promos. In fact I think he was much much better on the mic than most people (his fans included) give him credit for. I disagree with his assessment that anderson's goofy and uncaring disposition kill the heat of the angle. I think that TNA needed to make Anderson that annoying if not more. The last ex WWE guy they tried to debut as a heel was Pope. The problem was though that Pope had a fanbase already that was excited to see him in TNA. As a result they refused to boo him while he was a heel because they liked him so much. This forced TNA to abruptly turn the Pope face. Now TNA is gearing up to transform anderson into a top tier heel. It would be pretty bad if they had to backtrack those plans and turn Anderson face as a result of his already established fanbase cheering him. So they made him an extremely goofy annoying disinterested character. Maybe that is way to annoying for some and perhaps it is nothing but "channel changing heat" to them but I can assure you not everyone feels that way. I am not the only one who is annoyed by Anderson but chalks that up to him being good at being annoying rather than saying "it must be unintentional that he annoys this much." that is just how I see it. I must say though the part of his complaints that got to me was him finding error in the fact that Abyss needs more chair shots to be taken down. Not only do I agree with Abyss needing more chair shots, I also think that if he was taken out with one chair shot that I would find that reason to complain. Granted I know lance rarely watches TNA but the whole point of the Abyss character is that he can survive attacks more than the average wrestler. That is why his character is called the monster Abyss. Because in wrestling monster is a name used to usually describe someone who can take/dish out more pain then their average coworker. Plus Abyss is a hardcore specialist. Lance storm and I may disagree in a small manner on anderson's annoyance, but I strongly disagree with his more chairshots for Abyss complaint. He totally lost me there.
|
|
|
Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Feb 28, 2010 6:28:59 GMT -5
Agree and disagree with what Lance is saying.
On one hand I think his point about Anderson's promos where what he actually says isn't as relevant to the feud is a good one. He started talking about gorillas, and also the vietnamese soldiers but we never found out why. People on here rave about the benefits of unscripted promos but they can a lot of the time just plain stop making sense, or at least if they make sense they don't actually do enough to contribute to the feud. The criticism of scripting is that everyone sounds the same, but I don't think they do. Kennedy in WWE had scripted promos but delivered them in his 'too cool for school' style that still made him stand out. If you have enough about you, you'll stand out doing a scripted promo.
But I disagree with his analysis on Anderson's character. He plays a great heel. Just because he makes light of Kurt, it doesn't suddenly mean we all think the feud is a joke. Unless he thinks fans immediately side with the heel just because they say something?
|
|
|
Post by Long A, Short A on Feb 28, 2010 6:53:59 GMT -5
If you go by the guidelines set, only Piper, Hogan, Flair, Sammartino, Bockwinkel, Vince McMahon, The Rock, Stone Cold, Mil Mascaras, Kobashi, Great Muta, and John Cena can do it. Problem is, for each of those guys, there would be people who would still have a problem. Piper - "hung around too long" or "was horrible in the ring and overrated on the microphone" Hogan - it's the internet. "He can't wrestle" is only the start, closely followed by "He held down people who were a threat to him" Flair - plenty of people suddenly hate him. Plus he's horribly mismanaged his money and gotten married several times, so obviously he doesn't know the wrestling business. He also "had the same match every night" and "hung around too long" Sammartino - "He's old and bitter" Bockwinkel - Many probably don't really know who he is. Vince McMahon - is the devil. He screwed Bret. He's old and out of touch. The Rock - "turned his back on wrestling" "couldn't wrestle" Stone Cold - "he beat his wife!" "Held down people he didn't want to work with, etc." Mascaras - "Who?" or "Foley said he sucked in his book" Kobashi - "Who?," "The business is different in the US, he doesn't know it," or "Outside of Japan and a bunch of smarks, who even knows who this guy is?" Muta - much the same as above, except he's a little better known here. Cena - "can't wrestle," "overrated on the mic," "has been shoved down everyone's throat," or "Hasn't been around long enough to know anything." There are certainly exceptions, but by and large, there is no pleasing the "IWC." Especially you? I respect Storm's opain for the reasons other poasters have given. I also respect his opains because he is more respectfull of fans' opians than other wrestlers and fans alike.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2010 7:23:31 GMT -5
Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. I'd still value that opinion over one who neither "can do" nor "can teach"
|
|
|
Post by mcmahonfan85 on Feb 28, 2010 7:49:32 GMT -5
at least he was more specific about it than Bryan Alvarez was in the latest Bryan & Vinny Show on Figure Four Wrestling/Wrestling Observer. this is the direct quote of what he said summarizing this week's episode - "We watched iMPACT!, which sucked a penis."
i have to agree with him
|
|
|
Post by Ryushinku on Feb 28, 2010 8:42:46 GMT -5
Because when you think of Anderson Anderson, you think of the massive amounts of money he's drawn too.
|
|
|
Post by Red Impact on Feb 28, 2010 8:56:59 GMT -5
This doesn't apply to every single fan, but the overall fanbase tends to have an...overly protective attitude to TNA that is noticeable. IF WWE was the same way there would have been alot more negative reaction whenever I put out a post criticizing the Sheamus run, for example. I just find this comment funny after reading a huge post in the WWE section where someone complained that Cole had the "channel change heat" on NXT, and that poster was then met by a large amount of very focal WWE defenders who claimed that Cole was at the top of his game and a great heel. Many said the Cole is heel storyline playing out was great. Many called the OP a mark for disliking the heel. So I don't really agree with your assessment that TNA's fans are more overly protective than other fans. The problem is is that even if WWE fans vigorously defend the product, I almost never see it get to the level of vitriol and personal attacks that I see from some TNA fans whenever anyone expresses negative opinions about TNA. It's not just "I disagree with the opinion," it goes a lot more into personal flaming. Whether it's calling a critic an "insufferable little dickhead" or, like several of the comments posted in the link and the very title of this thread suggest, personal attacks on the guy's talent and career. There are a lot of TNA fans that don't do it, but I still see worse comments out of some of them then I see out of the average thread criticizing a WWE product.
|
|
|
Post by Michael Coello on Feb 28, 2010 9:56:25 GMT -5
at least he was more specific about it than Bryan Alvarez was in the latest Bryan & Vinny Show on Figure Four Wrestling/Wrestling Observer. this is the direct quote of what he said summarizing this week's episode - "We watched iMPACT!, which sucked a penis." i have to agree with him Bryan Alvarez doesn't like a TNA show? Gasp and Awe!
|
|
hollywood
King Koopa
the bullet dodger
The Green Arrow has approved this post.
Posts: 11,122
|
Post by hollywood on Feb 28, 2010 11:05:59 GMT -5
Perhaps things will change when they switch to Mondays?
After all, isn't that TNA's mantra? It'll be better when we [insert "epic" change here], you'll see!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2010 11:42:55 GMT -5
Someone doesn't have to be good at something to know that someone else isn't.
|
|
|
Post by Long A, Short A on Feb 28, 2010 11:51:05 GMT -5
Someone doesn't have to be good at something to know that someone else isn't. Thank you, thank you very much.
|
|
|
Post by Natalya's Ass Fanboy on Feb 28, 2010 12:38:39 GMT -5
I sense quite a bit of jealousy in Lance Storm's ranting. My guess is Lance is bothered by the fact that Mr. Anderson is only an average wrestler, yet because of his massive charisma and mic skills, he's destined for megastardom. This is the exact opposite of Storm, who, while a fine wrestler, had a personality that made Steve Blackman look like The Rock by comparison.
As for Storm's argument (baseless assertion, to be more precise)...
I followed Kennedy's promo fine. The gorilla line was stupid but minor and not worth whining over. His entrance ramp promo was his usual greatness complete with flawless line delivery and textbook playing to the crowd.
The spot with Angle standing behind Anderson was for the crowd's enjoyment -- you know, the point of professional wrestling? It worked, as they ate it up.
The chair shot spot was weak only in that Angle whacked Anderson's back. Had he went for the head, the knockout would've been entirely believable (unexpected, unprotected shot) but also dangerous, making it not worth the additional realism. Either way, the segment accomplished its goal of Kurt getting a measure of revenge, furthering along the angle, while at the same time getting Rob Terry and the Global Championship some TV time. Bravo to TNA for that.
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Backlund on Feb 28, 2010 12:56:54 GMT -5
I agree with Storm's sentiment, as Anderson/Kennedy has always baffled me as to how he got as far as he did with minimal ring ability and a one-dimensional character that either he or the promoters of whatever company he's employed with have shown no desire to advance. I was changing the channel when he was wrestling or talking in the WWE and he's been even worse in TNA since arriving. He'll get pushed to the moon, but while Storm had the ability but no charisma, he thinks he has charisma, minimal ability and apparently no desire to improve.
I do think Lance should probably look into taking a break from watching TNA shows, as he's clearly not deriving any form of entertainment from them. I know he's in the business and its probably impossible not to watch, but the issues he has with TNA obviously aren't going to be addressed and they will either prove him wrong or go the way of the Dodo on a long enough time line and prove him right. I have a similar sentiment to Storm mostly, but gave TNA another whirl with their "new" (read: old) approach and don't care for it. I won't be watching anytime soon and will stop bothering people with my opinions soon enough.
|
|
Sam Punk
Hank Scorpio
Own Nothing, Be Happy
Posts: 6,312
|
Post by Sam Punk on Feb 28, 2010 13:05:35 GMT -5
It's fine to disagree with Lance's opinion but there's no need to personally attack him. I feel that's going too far. At least Lance is respectful and doesn't act like his opinion is more important than the rest of us because he wrestled. Which is more than I can say about some on this board.
|
|
The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
changed his name
Posts: 15,785
|
Post by The OP on Feb 28, 2010 13:24:31 GMT -5
Geez Lance, what are you jealous? (Totally, 100% absolutely kidding) About Anderson, I think Storm is referring to the content of the promos, not Anderson's talking ability. Obviously Anderson is a good talker, but they were bad promos in the sense that Storm explained. I agree with him about that, and almost everyone said this last episode of Impact was horrible so was it now better to some because Storm didn't like it? I was one of few people who said they thought it was alright.
|
|
|
Post by Red Impact on Feb 28, 2010 13:29:16 GMT -5
As for Storm's argument (baseless assertion, to be more precise)... Actually, it's not a baseless assertion, it's an opinion, same as you have. Only you feel your more entitled to it than he is. A baseless assertion is claiming that, I don't know, he's criticizing the promo because he's jealous.
|
|
|
Post by Porky's Butthole on Feb 28, 2010 13:56:30 GMT -5
I agree w/Storms overall assessment of what happened. But what irks me(and lots others, it seems) is the hatred he gets for it and the argument that he didn't do anything or didn't draw or wasn't over or whatever. To those people, some questions: 1: How over were YOU when you were pro? 2: Would a company do this: to someone who wasn't over, or didn't draw?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2010 14:04:20 GMT -5
I think Lance is totally jealous since he never done anything as a pro
I mean yeah, he had a 15+ year career wrestling for countless promotions, winning countless belts and as already been stated he carried half the belts of WCW at one point but seriously, what has he achieved really.......especially compared to Anderson with his 2 month US title run over 2 years ago
Having said that, I don't get his point about Abyss taking 3 or 4 chair shots compared to Andersons 1........I know TNAs character changes get confusing but Abyss = Wuss/Hardcore Monster has been pretty constant
|
|