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Post by notoriousjrh on Feb 27, 2010 20:50:47 GMT -5
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Viva
Dennis Stamp
THAT'S MY PURSE! *kick to the groin*
You can dance if you want to.
Posts: 4,099
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Post by Viva on Feb 27, 2010 20:59:27 GMT -5
It's not like he was wrong. I don't understand why we sit here and say it and it's totally fine, but someone in the industry says it and it deserves a sarcastic title.
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Post by donners on Feb 27, 2010 21:00:39 GMT -5
Well, I'm sure Lance's point is totally nullified by your devastating and insightful analysis.
I can certainly see where he's coming from. Anderson's dismissive tone can completely undercut stories and other characters.
As for money-drawing being linked to capability to imagine or produce a quality wrestling show - I think Hogan is killing that notion more every week.
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Post by ________ has left the building on Feb 27, 2010 21:06:16 GMT -5
Once again, another thread criticizing Lance Storm's opinions. Every time somebody says any negative thing about TNA and has a plausible argument for it, folks say it doesn't matter because they never draw any money, is bitter, a hater, never was a main eventer, or sucked or boring.
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
Posts: 15,620
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Post by AriadosMan on Feb 27, 2010 21:11:18 GMT -5
On one hand, Lance was admittedly never a huge draw himself.
On the other hand, Anderson hasn't ever actually proven himself to be one either, and just because Lance Storm calls him on it doesn't automatically invalidate the argument why.
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Post by "Playboy" Don Douglas on Feb 27, 2010 21:11:34 GMT -5
I never understood that. If someone who was in the business but wasn't a huge draw or main event player, their opinion is supposed to be meaningless. But if fans posting on a message board say it, it's fine.
I believe both are capable of having totally valid points. Just as both are capable of being totally wrong or off base.
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nonrev
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,303
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Post by nonrev on Feb 27, 2010 21:12:54 GMT -5
Once again, another thread criticizing Lance Storm's opinions. Every time somebody says any negative thing about TNA and has a plausible argument for it, folks say it doesn't matter because they never draw any money, is bitter, a hater, never was a main eventer, or sucked or boring. No worries we can turn the thread into a Lance Storm appreciation thread!  I for one also agree with everything he said, except Anderson is a TV muter for me and not quite a channel changer....yet. |
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
Posts: 15,620
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Post by AriadosMan on Feb 27, 2010 21:14:11 GMT -5
Once again, another thread criticizing Lance Storm's opinions. Every time somebody says any negative thing about TNA and has a plausible argument for it, folks say it doesn't matter because they never draw any money, is bitter, a hater, never was a main eventer, or sucked or boring. Which kinda explains why those of us not entirely on board with the Hogan regime tend to give a negative characterization to TNA fans. ECW fans, for example, knew when their show did wrong and would criticize it very harshly. TNA's fans tend to either ignore the company's faults or "shoot the messenger" when someone points out something they have a problem with. This doesn't apply to every single fan, but the overall fanbase tends to have an...overly protective attitude to TNA that is noticeable. IF WWE was the same way there would have been alot more negative reaction whenever I put out a post criticizing the Sheamus run, for example. |
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Post by Crusty Ruffles on Feb 27, 2010 21:19:25 GMT -5
Those who can, do.
Those who can't, teach.
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Post by jobsquad on Feb 27, 2010 21:31:06 GMT -5
Once again, another thread criticizing Lance Storm's opinions. Every time somebody says any negative thing about TNA and has a plausible argument for it, folks say it doesn't matter because they never draw any money, is bitter, a hater, never was a main eventer, or sucked or boring. Exactly. When a guy signs up at a wrestling school, survives the training, and is deemed a full fledged worker by the people training him, his opinions should be looked at a little different because he is speaking on what he sees from his knowledge of the business, and all fully trained workers know the same things about the way the business works from the standpoint of booking, planning matches, cutting promos, etc. It is their natural ability/creativity that sets them apart on stage. That said, I did not even think about what Storm was talking about when I watched Impact. I mean, I was too blown away with Angle doing the elevator stage thing to get into position to really notice the things Lance is talking about, lol. I am still not used to the whole elevator thing. The spot did not break any rules so to speak, as Anderson is much smaller than Abyss, so it is believable that one chair shot puts him down. From a working standpoint, I would like to see it where one chair shot does enough damage so guys don't have to take several, but that's just me. As for the criticism of the promos, notice he never once talks about Anderson's mic ability, or claims himself as being superior. He takes issue with what was said in trying to get the storyline across. It didn't bother me since Anderson has a character to portray, but maybe it could have been done better in Storm's mind. As for Storm's opinion on TNA in general, specifically saying the show sucks could be coming from several different schools of thought. |
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Post by Apricots And A Pear Tree on Feb 27, 2010 22:03:30 GMT -5
The spot did not break any rules so to speak, as Anderson is much smaller than Abyss, so it is believable that one chair shot puts him down. From a working standpoint, I would like to see it where one chair shot does enough damage so guys don't have to take several, but that's just me. Also anyone who has watched wrestling for a long enough time will have picked up on the fact that unless its in a match where they are allowed,one chair shot will take almost anybody down. |
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Post by Bram wants to 'urt you on Feb 27, 2010 22:07:46 GMT -5
I have to say I disagree.
While I can understand him not liking Anderson's "too cool for school" character, I'd also argue that's exactly the point of the persona. You hate him because he (metaphorically or literally) spits on anything that you care about. And I think he plays the role to a tee. The biggest flaw in a lot of heels is when they say something, do something or act in a way that makes you actually root for them. Anderson ('s character) is simply a complete dick. He has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and simply makes himself out to be more over the top obnoxious with each and every subsequent promo. Surely the whole point of creating a heel is that you make a character who is despised to the point that everyone, without exception, wants to see him get his ass handed to him on a plate.
The fact that Kurt, as the "face" in this feud, can pull off what is a very obviously heel tactic; hitting his adversary with a chair from behind, without even letting the other man see him, yet still gets face cheers for doing so, shows just what a good job they're doing with Anderson as a heel.
After re reading the post, I also have to say I'm not 100% convinced that this is actually Lance talking. While on first observation it sounds like a Lance commentary, there is a lack of alternative suggestions that makes me think it isn't him. Lance may have commented that he could book a better show with a ouija board (it isn't that difficult to google it), but he'd have been more likely to offer up explanations as to what he'd have done differently, rather than just slating what he apparently didn't like. It reads more like a Lance wannabe (now there's a novel thought) than the man himself if you ask me.
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Post by Red Impact on Feb 27, 2010 22:22:21 GMT -5
Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those that can't teach, whine online ;D I never understood that. If someone who was in the business but wasn't a huge draw or main event player, their opinion is supposed to be meaningless. But if fans posting on a message board say it, it's fine. I believe both are capable of having totally valid points. Just as both are capable of being totally wrong or off base. This. I never understood why people get so defensive and even downright vitriolic when someone criticizes something they like. The criticism of Lance Storm is classic. The guy's been in the business, been with the biggest companies the country has seen, and the best comeback is that he didn't "draw money" as vague as it is. If the person who made it (and yes, he made it) in the business can't comment on it, what business do those fans have at making any sort of commentary? Where are their lengthy careers spanning decades? Where is the money they drew? Unless Austin or The Rock are posing as random internet fans, they have no business criticizing anyone for their relative success in the business. |
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Post by jobsquad on Feb 27, 2010 22:43:06 GMT -5
Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. Those that can't teach, whine online ;D I never understood that. If someone who was in the business but wasn't a huge draw or main event player, their opinion is supposed to be meaningless. But if fans posting on a message board say it, it's fine. I believe both are capable of having totally valid points. Just as both are capable of being totally wrong or off base. This. I never understood why people get so defensive and even downright vitriolic when someone criticizes something they like. The criticism of Lance Storm is classic. The guy's been in the business, been with the biggest companies the country has seen, and the best comeback is that he didn't "draw money" as vague as it is. If the person who made it (and yes, he made it) in the business can't comment on it, what business do those fans have at making any sort of commentary? Where are their lengthy careers spanning decades? Where is the money they drew? Unless Austin or The Rock are posing as random internet fans, they have no business criticizing anyone for their relative success in the business. Exactly. Bravo. This thread and the reactions to it provide a beaming example of why workers disrespect the IWC as a whole. I mean, how can you argue with the guy? But, it also illustrates that the majority of the IWC is intelligent and respectful, but the glowing posts of few make it seem otherwise. It is like when you go to a wrestling event and generalize the whole crowd based off that chick with a tail and no teeth. She doesn't represent the whole crowd, but her voice is the loudest. And no, simply disagreeing with Storm does not make a person look moronic, but acting like Storm does not know what he is talking about does. |
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Feb 27, 2010 22:48:27 GMT -5
Those that can't teach, whine online ;D This. I never understood why people get so defensive and even downright vitriolic when someone criticizes something they like. The criticism of Lance Storm is classic. The guy's been in the business, been with the biggest companies the country has seen, and the best comeback is that he didn't "draw money" as vague as it is. If the person who made it (and yes, he made it) in the business can't comment on it, what business do those fans have at making any sort of commentary? Where are their lengthy careers spanning decades? Where is the money they drew? Unless Austin or The Rock are posing as random internet fans, they have no business criticizing anyone for their relative success in the business. Exactly. Bravo. This thread and the reactions to it provide a beaming example of why workers disrespect the IWC as a whole. I mean, how can you argue with the guy? But, it also illustrates that the majority of the IWC is intelligent and respectful, but the glowing posts of few make it seem otherwise. It is like when you go to a wrestling event and generalize the whole crowd based off that chick with a tail and no teeth. She doesn't represent the whole crowd, but her voice is the loudest. And no, simply disagreeing with Storm does not make a person look moronic, but acting like Storm does not know what he is talking about does. True. After Hogan signed just about everyone on the internet was saying how he suck TNA dry and he's only out for himself. CM Punk says pretty much the same thing in a radio interview and he gets blasted for it. |
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deeks
Trap-Jaw
Posts: 264
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Post by deeks on Feb 27, 2010 22:56:13 GMT -5
I respect his opinion, but can I strongly disagree with it?
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blizz
AC Slater
Posts: 115
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Post by blizz on Feb 27, 2010 22:59:30 GMT -5
right as usual
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Post by jobsquad on Feb 27, 2010 23:00:02 GMT -5
I respect his opinion, but can I strongly disagree with it? Sure. Heck, I disagree with his views on Mr Anderson the character, but I get what he is talking about during the spots. But no one can say with any certainty that he does not have the knowledge/background to say these things. I mean, Hogan/Austin/Rock may be huge draws, but at the end of the day they do their jobs the same way as Lance Storm and follow the same rules. |
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Post by Red Impact on Feb 27, 2010 23:00:50 GMT -5
Exactly. Bravo. This thread and the reactions to it provide a beaming example of why workers disrespect the IWC as a whole. I mean, how can you argue with the guy? But, it also illustrates that the majority of the IWC is intelligent and respectful, but the glowing posts of few make it seem otherwise. It is like when you go to a wrestling event and generalize the whole crowd based off that chick with a tail and no teeth. She doesn't represent the whole crowd, but her voice is the loudest. And no, simply disagreeing with Storm does not make a person look moronic, but acting like Storm does not know what he is talking about does. I agree entirely. Disagreeing with his opinion isn't a problem. That's why it's an opinion. But blasting his opinion because he didn't draw or isn't booking is idiotic. Those flaming him on message boards aren't drawing anything and aren't booking promotions either. It'd be like trying to offer running tips to Ladanian Tomlinson because you can jog a mile on a treadmill. |
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Post by Crusty Ruffles on Feb 27, 2010 23:23:26 GMT -5
Discrediting Lance Storm is almost as bad as doing the same to someone like Al Snow.
Did he draw at a high level throughout his 20 year career? Absolutely not. Should we discredit the wisdom he can pass along to others because he learned from his mistakes? You'd be a fool to.
That's what I was implying by my those who can/can't post. Lance had some decent runs, sure, but nothing that really drew at a main event level. He may not have had that huge IT factor to make him a main event, but that doesn't mean as a whole he doesn't know what that IT is.
In my personal opinion, Lance Storm isn't going about this in an obnoxious way. He's been critical of TNA, but he's been more than fair and given them credit when due. In this specific case, I agree with him. I think Anderson as a whole in TNA has been pretty bad and this week was just...weird. He summed up that promo exactly like my reaction when I saw it. Far too goofy.
As a whole, while we may not agree with what Lance is saying, we can at least respect his opinion even if we disagree. It's not like he just had a cup of coffee in the business.
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