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Post by Natalya's Ass Fanboy on Feb 28, 2010 23:14:46 GMT -5
So you're saying that guys who were prominent in WCW during its dying days didn't matter, so their opinions on running a wrestling company have no merit? I'm saying a guy whose career highlight is being called boring by Steve Austin, who's never shown that he has a clue what constitutes a good promo, isn't likely to have valid insights on the subject. Throw in the fact that Lance is a well-known TNAophobic and not only do we have to deal with his promo-cutting ignorance, but his extreme anti-TNA bias as well. Storm hates TNA and is over-analyzing, looking for anything to bitch over, big or small. I already explained why I feel Lance's criticisms were petty and failed. Since the fans loved everything involving Mr. Anderson on Thursday (the litmus test), pardon my arrogance, but I'll have to declare myself right and Lance wrong. P.S. - mic work had as much to do with Lance Storm's (modest) career success as ring work had to do with Hulkster's (massive) career success -- little to none.
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Post by joeiscool on Feb 28, 2010 23:20:54 GMT -5
Anderson wasn't a draw cause he'd injure himself before his big break.
Lance was just boring. Most of Lance's appeal is in the fact he was in ECW. Not that he actually did anything extremely exciting there, just the fact he was there while exciting things where going on around him. _____________
I how ever disagree with Lance not because he's boring, but because he's wrong. Anderson's promos bring lots of heat. I thought that the bit about the Korean Medal was great. I think 2 promos was probably over kill, but it seems like this show was filler for mondays 8th show...
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Post by Porky's Butthole on Feb 28, 2010 23:36:46 GMT -5
So you're saying that guys who were prominent in WCW during its dying days didn't matter, so their opinions on running a wrestling company have no merit? I'm saying a guy whose career highlight is being called boring by Steve Austin, who's never shown that he has a clue what constitutes a good promo, isn't likely to have valid insights on the subject. Throw in the fact that Lance is a well-known TNAophobic and not only do we have to deal with his promo-cutting ignorance, but his extreme anti-TNA bias as well. Storm hates TNA and is over-analyzing, looking for anything to bitch over, big or small. I already explained why I feel Lance's criticisms were petty and failed. Since the fans loved everything involving Mr. Anderson on Thursday (the litmus test), pardon my arrogance, but I'll have to declare myself right and Lance wrong. P.S. - mic work had as much to do with Lance Storm's (modest) career success as ring work had to do with Hulkster's (massive) career success -- little to none. Okay, I'd like to take these on, one at a time if I may. 1: That's his career highlight? Impact Players, anyone? Holding THREE WCW titles at once, anyone? Either you have no idea about wrestling history, or are completely ignorant. 2: Over analyzing and finding anything to bitch about? Do you even KNOW where you are? This is the internet, baby! This place is the *home* of that. Furthermore, it appears that you are overanalyzing what Lance said and...surprise surprise...bitching about it. Funny, huh? 3: This last one, I'm not too sure about, but it appears that you're attacking Lance's promo skills after he did the same about someone else, right? A pot/kettle thing, yes? You really think Hogan's mic work was what made his massive career? Hogan got huge because the fans popped for him when he came back and saved Backlund. They went guano. And let's be honest here, Vince McMahon isn't f***ing stupid. Or at least he wasn't. He heard the pop, noticed Hogan's size and gave him the title over the Anti-American Iron Shiek. In other words, he gave someone who got a huge pop the title over someone who was hated, which added to his heat. The rest was simple. He never loses, and if that *does* happen, it's not an honest win. Have him spout off a catchphrase or two and the money prints itself. From then on, Hogan was able to write his own ticket anytime or anywhere he wanted. To hell with the younger talent, his FRIENDS needed to be put on TV and given titles over one of the company's best heels. Don't wanna lose to the hottest stars the company has ever had? Threaten a walk out. What I'm saying is that roughly 70% of Hogans massive career has come from his clout, rather than *any* kind of talent, what little he has. But back to the topic at hand, Lance was about 95% right with what he said. You, however, are wrong with at least one thing you said. I didn't love everything involving Mr. Anderson. Hell, I didn't even like it. And last I checked, I'm a fan...
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Post by Red Impact on Feb 28, 2010 23:42:06 GMT -5
So you're saying that guys who were prominent in WCW during its dying days didn't matter, so their opinions on running a wrestling company have no merit? I'm saying a guy whose career highlight is being called boring by Steve Austin, who's never shown that he has a clue what constitutes a good promo, isn't likely to have valid insights on the subject. Throw in the fact that Lance is a well-known TNAophobic and not only do we have to deal with his promo-cutting ignorance, but his extreme anti-TNA bias as well. Storm hates TNA and is over-analyzing, looking for anything to bitch over, big or small. I already explained why I feel Lance's criticisms were petty and failed. Since the fans loved everything involving Mr. Anderson on Thursday (the litmus test), pardon my arrogance, but I'll have to declare myself right and Lance wrong. Riiiiight.... Storm is critical of the show (as he is of WWE), but at least he gives his reasons and doesn't actually attack the performers, which is a lot more than can be said of those who bash his career for expressing an opinion. And TNA fans are a raucous audience. They react to everything, just like fans of the Attitude era did. That doesn't mean everything is good or affective, it means that they're easy to get a response from. The idea that he's TNAophobic is also wrong. He's been positive about it in the past (particularly on Hogan and Bischoff coming in) and puts over the talent often. He hates the booking, or, rather, hates Russo's booking style. And still, your argument comes down to you believing he shouldn't be allowed to express an opinion because you didn't think he was good on the mic, which is asinine. If a worker who had a 15 year career, even if he wasn't praised for his promo ability, can't comment on a promo than a random fan has jack-all reason to.
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Post by jobsquad on Feb 28, 2010 23:51:57 GMT -5
I'm saying a guy whose career highlight is being called boring by Steve Austin, who's never shown that he has a clue what constitutes a good promo, isn't likely to have valid insights on the subject. Throw in the fact that Lance is a well-known TNAophobic and not only do we have to deal with his promo-cutting ignorance, but his extreme anti-TNA bias as well. Storm hates TNA and is over-analyzing, looking for anything to bitch over, big or small. I already explained why I feel Lance's criticisms were petty and failed. Since the fans loved everything involving Mr. Anderson on Thursday (the litmus test), pardon my arrogance, but I'll have to declare myself right and Lance wrong. Riiiiight.... Storm is critical of the show (as he is of WWE), but at least he gives his reasons and doesn't actually attack the performers, which is a lot more than can be said of those who bash his career for expressing an opinion. Even then, he's regularly put over the talent they have, praised what he thinks is good, and the only person he bashes alot is Russo. And TNA fans are a raucous audience. They react to everything, just like fans of the Attitude era did. That doesn't mean everything is good or affective, it means that they're easy to get a response from. And still, your argument comes down to you believing he shouldn't be allowed to express an opinion because you didn't think he was good on the mic, which is asinine. If a worker who had a 15 year career, even if he wasn't praised for his promo ability, can't comment on a promo than a random fan has jack-all reason to. To be fair, when Austin called him boring, that spot was probably seen by more people at one time than anything else he did.
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
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Post by Celgress on Mar 1, 2010 0:09:10 GMT -5
I'm saying a guy whose career highlight is being called boring by Steve Austin, who's never shown that he has a clue what constitutes a good promo, isn't likely to have valid insights on the subject. Throw in the fact that Lance is a well-known TNAophobic and not only do we have to deal with his promo-cutting ignorance, but his extreme anti-TNA bias as well. Storm hates TNA and is over-analyzing, looking for anything to bitch over, big or small. I already explained why I feel Lance's criticisms were petty and failed. Since the fans loved everything involving Mr. Anderson on Thursday (the litmus test), pardon my arrogance, but I'll have to declare myself right and Lance wrong. P.S. - mic work had as much to do with Lance Storm's (modest) career success as ring work had to do with Hulkster's (massive) career success -- little to none. ..........You really think Hogan's mic work was what made his massive career? Hogan got huge because the fans popped for him when he came back and saved Backlund. They went guano. And let's be honest here, Vince McMahon isn't f***ing stupid. Or at least he wasn't. He heard the pop, noticed Hogan's size and gave him the title over the Anti-American Iron Shiek. In other words, he gave someone who got a huge pop the title over someone who was hated, which added to his heat. The rest was simple. He never loses, and if that *does* happen, it's not an honest win. Have him spout off a catchphrase or two and the money prints itself. From then on, Hogan was able to write his own ticket anytime or anywhere he wanted. To hell with the younger talent, his FRIENDS needed to be put on TV and given titles over one of the company's best heels. Don't wanna lose to the hottest stars the company has ever had? Threaten a walk out. What I'm saying is that roughly 70% of Hogans massive career has come from his clout, rather than *any* kind of talent, what little he has.... Um, Hogan was over like Rover in the AWA before he ever even returned to the now WWE. Due to a combination of several factors such as his role in Rock III & his aping of the "Hulk" moniker during a live TV interview opposite Lou Ferrigno. Hogan had demonstrated a tremendous ability to connect with the audience during his AWA run. Verne Gagne however woudn't put the heavyweight title on Hogan, in spite of what the fans wanted. In essence Vince snatched up the Hulkster when he was already well on his way towards superstardom. By saying that Hogan's own talent had little, or nothing, to do with the phenomena he bacame is a very disingenuous statement, IMO.
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
Posts: 15,620
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Post by AriadosMan on Mar 1, 2010 0:13:28 GMT -5
Somehow, the phrase "TNAphobe" makes it sound like Lance drives around in a van beating up Impact Zone fans and brandishing GOD HATES BISCHOFF signs.
I very much doubt that this is the case.
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Post by poi zen rana on Mar 1, 2010 0:50:50 GMT -5
I don't know. I love Lance Storm but I believe he does have an anti-TNA bias. Maybe it is an anti-Russo bias. Either way while it is true that he bashes the E as well I believe he is much harsher against TNA. Hence his decision to finally comment on TNA again after they had there worst show in quite a while. Instead of commenting about the episodes that fans have been loving.
Oh well Storm is a true wrestling God so I excuse him his biases. Nobody is perfect
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Post by Natalya's Ass Fanboy on Mar 1, 2010 1:02:37 GMT -5
Okay, I'd like to take these on, one at a time if I may. 1: That's his career highlight? Impact Players, anyone? Holding THREE WCW titles at once, anyone? Either you have no idea about wrestling history, or are completely ignorant. ECW was small-time and WCW was deathly ill when Storm arrived. His brief work with the legendary Steve Austin in the world's largest wrestling organization easily trumps both. 2: Over analyzing and finding anything to bitch about? Do you even KNOW where you are? This is the internet, baby! This place is the *home* of that. Furthermore, it appears that you are overanalyzing what Lance said and...surprise surprise...bitching about it. Funny, huh? I wouldn't say I'm over-analyzing Storm's ranting nor am I bitching over it. There is no all capitalization of any words, very little foul language, no hyperbolic claims - just a calm, rational expressing of my own opinion of TNA, Anderson, and Storm's opinion on the two. 3: This last one, I'm not too sure about, but it appears that you're attacking Lance's promo skills after he did the same about someone else, right? A pot/kettle thing, yes? I'm questioning Lance's insight and his motives, and for good reasons. First, Lance has never shown he understands the art of promo cutting (including in his latest critique), so yes, it's perfectly reasonable to point this out. Before one criticizes something, he must first understand what it is he's criticizing or else his conclusions will be faulty. We see this with Storm's comments on the Anderson/Angle segment, and how his conclusion is entirely opposite of reality -- the crowd didn't hate the segment, they loved it. The storyline wasn't made a joke, but took the next step in what will likely be Anderson's star-making feud. Secondly, I'm not aware of Lance ever making a positive comment towards TNA, which leads me to believe his criticism goes beyond logic and a fair and balanced thought process. He seems to have something personal against the company for whatever reason. You really think Hogan's mic work was what made his massive career? Partially, yes, along with his look, charisma, and the fact that he was given the opportunity to succeed by Vince McMahon, Jr. The point is that being successful in wrestling by no means requires skill in every facet of the business. Lance made it because he had a good look and was a skilled worker, not because he had respectable charisma or promo ability. Any one of us could get on the mic and stink it up, just like Lance did for 18 years. But back to the topic at hand, Lance was about 95% right with what he said. You, however, are wrong with at least one thing you said. I didn't love everything involving Mr. Anderson. Hell, I didn't even like it. And last I checked, I'm a fan... The fan s, plural, referring not to any single fan, but to the iMPACT! Zone crowd as a whole.
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Post by Red Impact on Mar 1, 2010 1:41:20 GMT -5
I don't know. I love Lance Storm but I believe he does have an anti-TNA bias. Maybe it is an anti-Russo bias. Either way while it is true that he bashes the E as well I believe he is much harsher against TNA. Hence his decision to finally comment on TNA again after they had there worst show in quite a while. Instead of commenting about the episodes that fans have been loving. Oh well Storm is a true wrestling God so I excuse him his biases. Nobody is perfect It's all anti-Russo bias. He complements the TNA roster often and puts over their talent, but he hates Russo's booking style and feels that it's sabotaging the show. That's one of the reasons he liked Bischoff and Hogan signing with TNA.
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
Posts: 15,620
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Post by AriadosMan on Mar 1, 2010 1:43:41 GMT -5
I don't know. I love Lance Storm but I believe he does have an anti-TNA bias. Maybe it is an anti-Russo bias. Either way while it is true that he bashes the E as well I believe he is much harsher against TNA. Hence his decision to finally comment on TNA again after they had there worst show in quite a while. Instead of commenting about the episodes that fans have been loving. Oh well Storm is a true wrestling God so I excuse him his biases. Nobody is perfect It's all anti-Russo bias. He complements the TNA roster often and puts over their talent, but he hates Russo's booking style and feels that it's sabotaging the show. That's one of the reasons he liked Bischoff and Hogan signing with TNA. Understandable, but Bischoff was just as responsible (if not more) than Russo for WCW's demise.
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Post by Janitor From Mars on Mar 1, 2010 1:53:20 GMT -5
Smarks are STILL attacking Lance Storm. Sheesh.
He's actually wrestled in the business. He has a bit more (hell, a LOT more) credibility than armchair bookers nowadays.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2010 1:54:54 GMT -5
Secondly, I'm not aware of Lance ever making a positive comment towards TNA, which leads me to believe his criticism goes beyond logic and a fair and balanced thought process. He seems to have something personal against the company for whatever reason. He's said plenty of good things, including this from last April: www.stormwrestling.com/041709.html haven’t watched Impact in over a month. I’ve been so busy and for the most part fed up with the nonsensical booking of all pro-wrestling shows of late, that I just had to take a break. I caught bits and pieces of WWE but just couldn’t subject myself to the frustration that is Impact. Well tonight after a refreshing vacation, I jumped back in and gave Impact a try and OH MY GOD, AM I GLAD I DID. Impact was freakin great. I don’t mean great “by Impact standards”; I mean flat out, straight up, this was a great show. I am SO happy right now as I type this. I think a lot of people wrongly perceive me as a TNA hater. I guess that’s understandable considering how often I rant about the program but the truth is, I love the TNA roster and the venom in my rants comes from my desire to see this company succeed and my frustration when I believe it is being counter productive to that desired success. Every week that I watch this show I hope that it is great and I will be able to rave about it in some way. That has not been the case very often in the past but man was it the case tonight. This show was so great, I mean even Tenay and West were good tonight. The show on the whole and a few of the angles specifically were intriguing enough that West and Tenay could put over what happened and discuss it with out getting tied up in fake heel/face bickering. Lockdown is this Sunday, and after not seeing Impact in 3-5 weeks I watched this show and can actually name 7 of the PPV matches for this Sunday and have interest in seeing most of them. That is an absolute HOME RUN, I rant all the time that this show needs to promote the PPVs so they can draw money and after just one show I WANT TO SEE THIS SHOW. Hell I might even order the Damn thing and I NEVER buy PPVs. Way to go TNA. I don’t want to break down the whole show so I’m going to just look at the three main angles, which I thought TNA got over very well tonight. Tag Team Domination: This feud has been going on long enough that I was familiar with it before starting this show. The Rough Cut segment was awesome, and really made me think this match and both titles MEANT something. Using Runt and Balls was a solid idea especially considering that the show is in Philly, where these guys are likely most over. Having Beer Money completely destroy these guys did create heat and made them look very strong. Having NO physical contact with Team 3D was paramount so this segment was a HUGE success. Good angle between two great teams; this should be a great match. Foley – Sting: I didn’t like the Foley interviews Cactus jack bit, and fast forwarded through it but I stopped when Sting came out and from that point on anyway this segment ruled. I’m not sure if a double turn has been in the works or not (last I watched Foley was a full face and Sting was mainly a heel) but this altercation felt heavy and important. Foley came off like a dangerous heel, and Sting is very good in the Baby face role. The bit at the end with Foley having the music play was a great idea, and even added to the intensity of the beat down. It was almost a new twist on the old New Jack gimmick with playing music during the assault. With the music there was no need for Tenay and West to say anything and it made it seem like more was going on. This was very good and hyped this match beautifully. Kudos also to Mick Foley who looks like he’s dropped at least 50lbs since I watched the show last. The Main Event: This was done so amazingly well I almost can’t believe it. The end of this show was so good it would have salvaged even the worst Impact but tonight it was just icing on the cake. This is how you make somebody a star again. I’ve always been a huge fan of Christopher Daniels and I thought they should have brought him back at the start of the Front Line / MEM feud, but after tonight I have no complaints. This was perfect, and everything fell into place. Christopher Daniels’ announcement as the 4th man was presented as a big deal. Jarrett put it over, they had AJ on the split screen to put it over, the crowd delivered and popped HUGE, and they even cut to Kurt who sold it huge. EVERYONE in the building put this over like it was monumental. I know this isn’t rocket science but not even WWE gets stuff this right anymore. You want to make somebody a star, have everybody in the company react like he IS one!!! Now you follow that up with the fact that Daniels is a great worker, you put him in the ring with Kurt Angle, another great worker, and you give them enough time to have a great match, and life as a viewer becomes oh so fantastic. If all that wasn’t good enough we get a great finish. This is where things could have fallen apart. The heels have to get the man advantage, giving the baby faces the edge is never a good idea, but you don’t really want to beat Daniels in his return match. The finish tonight gave Daniels the perceived victory and gave the heels the PPV advantage. Kudos to whoever came up with the pin; had this been the same old same old double pin German suplex spot this finish would have fallen flat. This was a creative pin and executed well enough that I didn’t even notice that Daniels shoulders were down on the pin and the way Chris used his arm to brace Kurt up on his shoulders, it didn’t even look like he was trying to keep his own shoulders down. AWESOME AWESOME JOB!!! Kudos also to Cornette for repeating the line that Daniels initiated the move. This was just a little thing but I popped huge for it. It put over the fact that while Daniels shoulders may have been down, he was in no way being pinned by Kurt. This segment gave us a great wrestling match, put Daniels back on the map as a HUGE star, got the heels the edge at the PPV, furthered the question of JJ’s loyalties, and just all around hyped this match for Sunday. HOME F’N RUN!!!! To everyone at TNA, I may bitch about you guys a lot, but I speak from the heart and am more than happy to give you your due when you deserve it, and My God do you deserve it this week. This was a great freakin show, with some great angles, and great wrestling matches. Please everyone out there TNA Lockdown this Sunday live on PPV, send the message that this kind of programming works and this is what we would like to see more of. ORDER this PPV. Lance Storm
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Post by Janitor From Mars on Mar 1, 2010 2:06:05 GMT -5
I would love to see Lance Storm join this forum just so he can prove some of these people wrong.
Hell, have him appear on WC Radio.
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Post by Red Impact on Mar 1, 2010 2:06:55 GMT -5
I wouldn't say I'm over-analyzing Storm's ranting nor am I bitching over it. There is no all capitalization of any words, very little foul language, no hyperbolic claims - just a calm, rational expressing of my own opinion of TNA, Anderson, and Storm's opinion on the two. A calm, rational expressing that it's all jealousy? Before one criticizes something, he must first understand what it is he's criticizing or else his conclusions will be faulty. So then 99.9% of those who criticize the E's wrestling, characters, promos and skits have no place doing it then. Most fans have never worked a match in their life, never cut a promo to an audience, never taken a bump, never worked an angle, never done anything remotely close to what they criticize them for. So does your logic go both ways? For that matter, what's the extent of your background in psychology? The fact that you can come to a conclusion about a person's motives for criticizing a promo based solely on what you see them typing on their website would require a rather extensive knowledge on how the human psyche works. Secondly, I'm not aware of Lance ever making a positive comment towards TNA, which leads me to believe his criticism goes beyond logic and a fair and balanced thought process. He seems to have something personal against the company for whatever reason. So do you think you're not aware of anything positive because you don't think he does or because you just don't pay attention to what he says? He praises the talent often. Whenever he criticizes something, it's most always the creative decisions. Namely, he doesn't like Russo's booking. He wants them to succeed, is willing to give them credit where it's due, and even if he criticizes the creative direction in the same breath, he is always high on their talent.And I'm not aware of you ever making a positive comment about WWE, or even expressing anything outside of extreme praise for TNA. So should I question whether you have a fair and balanced thought process? Or an ulterior motive? Do you have a personal stake in the company? Or some vendetta against 'E land, since you were already warned by a mod for going into a WWE thread to put over impact against the rules of the forum. The fan s, plural, referring not to any single fan, but to the iMPACT! Zone crowd as a whole. Which is really the easiest crowd to please this side of the infomercial audience. And why shouldn't they be? They get in free, they're not affecting the ratings (which dropped).
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JMA
Hank Scorpio
Down With Capitalism!
Posts: 6,880
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Post by JMA on Mar 1, 2010 3:18:54 GMT -5
Yeah, the whole "Lance Storm hates TNA" meme is pure crap. Anyone who reads him regularly would understand that.
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Post by nerdinitupagain on Mar 1, 2010 3:42:57 GMT -5
What kind of loser would spend time out of their day putting their opinion on the internet about pro wrestling?
Seriously guys.. it's his opinion, why can't people just accept the fact there are multiple views to creative products such as music, art, movies, tv, and yes, pro wrestling. There are many people who share a similar view as Lance Storm to pro-wrestling.. and those enjoy reading his views.
Just stupid that we constantly have threads about how Lance Storm doesn't like what TNA or WWE are doing...
However, I did find it funny on that 411 thread where someone said "Lance Storm's most memorable promo is saying he was boring." Yeah, definitely not. "If I could be serious for a moment" was a HUGE heat getter in WCW and that catch phrase which he came up with... is more recognizable than any homegrown TNA phrase besides "BEER! MONEY!" right now.
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Paco
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 7,145
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Post by Paco on Mar 1, 2010 4:41:15 GMT -5
Lance and I will just have to agree to disagree.
Keep doing what you're doing, Mr. Anderson.
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
changed his name
Posts: 15,785
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Post by The OP on Mar 1, 2010 8:15:27 GMT -5
TNA needs to bring in "Jealous" Lance Storm. For is debut, he sneaks up behind Mr. Anderson while Anderson is cutting a promo, and he knocks him out cold with a chair shot and yells "Shut up! How is any of this supposed to draw money?!"
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Kae
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,610
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Post by Kae on Mar 1, 2010 9:20:18 GMT -5
Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach. That's unfair. Lance Storm did well enough to end up in the WWE. That puts him in a very small elite, if you think about the wrestling industry as a whole. It's not like it's some backyard wrestler criticizing Anderson . . . I agree with him, for the record. I like Kennedy/Anderson, but hate his promos at the moment. I especially hate how he still does the echo, which makes almost no sense when it isn't Kennedy Kennedy.
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