mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by mrjl on Sept 15, 2010 17:51:20 GMT -5
To me it comes off as supreme confidence and kind of smirking at Miz's jackassery which in turn pisses the Miz off even more and keeps the fire in this feud lit. Since the Miz, Riley, and Cole are symbols of the thumb on Bryan's career storyline-wise, its also like he's smiling despite the stooges trying to mess with him constantly, and once again reinforcing that will and confidence that I see as his onscreen persona. The problem is, is that in kayfabe terms, which is the way I try to watch a show (because when I try to watch it with grown up and smarky head on, I just hate everything and don't enjoy it, so what would be the point), he hasn't earned the right to act and look the way he does, and so he comes across, to me, as this arrogant, smarmy little loser who is distracting and taking away the emotion from the match because he's in their grinning like a loon even when locking on a move that he struggles to hold in. It doesnt work for me, and frankly, I believe, if anyone not him was doing it, people would be agreeing in droves. If you're watching kayfabe, then keep kayfabe. So far no one has broken the labell lock without getting the ropes. So it's not a hold that's easily broken. It's potential match ender that nearly tapped out former WWE champion Batista, before Bryan was tossed from NXT on a technicality
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Sept 15, 2010 17:53:51 GMT -5
Well, isn't the whole point of the Miz/Bryan feud that there's a few more levels to it than your average heel/face thing? Sure, Miz is a jerk and Bryan is an everyman nice guy. But Miz has made good points in his favour, he pointed out to Bryan that his indie past meant nothing in the WWE, showed Bryan tough love as a NXT mentor (behind his berating there was the hint of wanting Bryan to succeed) and his post summerslam promo about how he wanted to cash in on Shemus but didn't as he knew Cena would call on him later in the night gave good motivation for his bitterness at Bryan for replacing him. Miz is undoubtably the heel in this feud but I would not rule out a softening towards Miz (planting seeds for a face run) and as a longshot a double turn at the conclusion of the feud. Something as insignificant as Bryans smug grin could be part of a bit of forshadowing towards that. In short I wouldn't be suprised if a writer/booker has asked Bryan to do it with a long term plan in mind. Bryan and Miz are both shades of gray right now, one a face who can come across as cocky and the other as an early SRS Jericho, a heel who makes decent points. I'm not complaining, it makes the feud and both characters more enjoyable to watch! But his indy past does mean somthing. It's where he learned all those moves he's using, it's where he developed his training regimen. It's his history. It's the reason why he is in WWE. I saw no "tough love" on NXT and I watched every episode. He's the guy who tagged himself in when Bryan was ready to win a tag match, he's the guy who brought in the Great Khali.
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
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Post by Legion on Sept 15, 2010 18:06:18 GMT -5
The problem is, is that in kayfabe terms, which is the way I try to watch a show (because when I try to watch it with grown up and smarky head on, I just hate everything and don't enjoy it, so what would be the point), he hasn't earned the right to act and look the way he does, and so he comes across, to me, as this arrogant, smarmy little loser who is distracting and taking away the emotion from the match because he's in their grinning like a loon even when locking on a move that he struggles to hold in. It doesnt work for me, and frankly, I believe, if anyone not him was doing it, people would be agreeing in droves. If you're watching kayfabe, then keep kayfabe. So far no one has broken the labell lock without getting the ropes. So it's not a hold that's easily broken. It's potential match ender that nearly tapped out former WWE champion Batista, before Bryan was tossed from NXT on a technicality It's one move that he's barely been able to use and it's effect is, for me, really hurt by his silly grin. As a heel, fine, it probably would work because he could be grinning at the pain, or grinning at the arrogance.....but the guy is meant to be a face, so that doesnt work for me. This is likely one of those things that can go round and round. It's a small issue that some wont care about and for others, it's going to be maddening until it stops.
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Post by Piccolo on Sept 15, 2010 18:12:58 GMT -5
It doesnt work for me, and frankly, I believe, if anyone not him was doing it, people would be agreeing in droves. See, I kind of feel the opposite. I think if this was someone that absolutely nobody here knew, there would be a lot less criticism... and I think that for the same reason you think the opposite, actually. It's because it's the opinion I have of him, as someone who never watched him in ROH. I think he's great. The smile totally makes sense to me. His attitude and his athleticism won me over, over the course of NXT, and now I really like him. So I have to wonder, when I see criticism of everything from the size of his head to the breadth of his smile to the color of his skin, whether that's coming from genuine dislike of what he does, or whether it's IWC self-loathing. I think it's possible that it's genuine dislike... no one likes everything, you know? But I think, just as you say that you think it's his history that's making people forgive the unforgivable smile sin, it's equally possible that the sin IS a sin to those who hate it because of that same thing... the fact that he's a popular non-WWE wrestler, and people want to go against what they perceive as the grain of popular opinion. I don't know what's true, of course. I can only speak for myself in saying that I never knew him from ROH, saw him for the first time in NXT, and have no trouble with the smile at all.
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
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Post by Legion on Sept 15, 2010 18:24:44 GMT -5
It doesnt work for me, and frankly, I believe, if anyone not him was doing it, people would be agreeing in droves. See, I kind of feel the opposite. I think if this was someone that absolutely nobody here knew, there would be a lot less criticism... and I think that for the same reason you think the opposite, actually. It's because it's the opinion I have of him, as someone who never watched him in ROH. I think he's great. The smile totally makes sense to me. His attitude and his athleticism won me over, over the course of NXT, and now I really like him. So I have to wonder, when I see criticism of everything from the size of his head to the breadth of his smile to the color of his skin, whether that's coming from genuine dislike of what he does, or whether it's IWC self-loathing. I think it's possible that it's genuine dislike... no one likes everything, you know? But I think, just as you say that you think it's his history that's making people forgive the unforgivable smile sin, it's equally possible that the sin IS a sin to those who hate it because of that same thing... the fact that he's a popular non-WWE wrestler, and people want to go against what they perceive as the grain of popular opinion. I don't know what's true, of course. I can only speak for myself in saying that I never knew him from ROH, saw him for the first time in NXT, and have no trouble with the smile at all. Well. that's fine. I'm not here to tell people how to think; I don't like it, you do. That's cool. For what it is worth, I never watched him in ROH either and as yet he hasnt done anything to make me like him. Possibly, there is a bit of psychological backlash on my part; I hate being told how to think and with DBD there is a bit of 'saviour syndrome' where people just can't get their heads round someone disliking him and think you a fool for saying you don't, so there may be some backlash against that......but if there is, it isn't much, it's simply that, as a new comer to his work, so far, not that into him. We'll see after the PPV.
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Massive G
Hank Scorpio
yo hago esto
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Post by Massive G on Sept 15, 2010 23:45:23 GMT -5
^^^^ have you ever considered checking out some of his previous work, ROH or otherwise?
Not saying you have to or anything. But I first heard about Danielson maybe 4 years ago. People raved about him, but since I was unfamiliar with his work, I looked him up. I was less than impressed with him, initially. Bad first impressionm based mostly on how he looks. But a persons opinion that I unconditionally respect recommended some matches of his and they were as good as his word.
He's popular among wrestling fans. He's kinda small. His interview skills are a work in progress, mostly.
But the reason people like him isn't that he's super polished, or huge, or internationally famous. It's because they've seen him put on absurdly good matches. There's no "savior complex", really. His fans are just happy to see him get a shot and some recognition with Earth's biggest wrestling company.
I don't mean to tell people that don't like him that they are wrong. They're not. People can like whatever they want. People also like or dislike things for different reasons. And that's fine.
But the reason threads like this go so long is because "he smiles" or "his tights are lame" or "his head is big" or whatever are poor, facetious reasons to form an opinion about someone.
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Urethra Franklin
King Koopa
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Post by Urethra Franklin on Sept 15, 2010 23:54:57 GMT -5
See, I kind of feel the opposite. I think if this was someone that absolutely nobody here knew, there would be a lot less criticism... and I think that for the same reason you think the opposite, actually. It's because it's the opinion I have of him, as someone who never watched him in ROH. I think he's great. The smile totally makes sense to me. His attitude and his athleticism won me over, over the course of NXT, and now I really like him. So I have to wonder, when I see criticism of everything from the size of his head to the breadth of his smile to the color of his skin, whether that's coming from genuine dislike of what he does, or whether it's IWC self-loathing. I think it's possible that it's genuine dislike... no one likes everything, you know? But I think, just as you say that you think it's his history that's making people forgive the unforgivable smile sin, it's equally possible that the sin IS a sin to those who hate it because of that same thing... the fact that he's a popular non-WWE wrestler, and people want to go against what they perceive as the grain of popular opinion. I don't know what's true, of course. I can only speak for myself in saying that I never knew him from ROH, saw him for the first time in NXT, and have no trouble with the smile at all. Well. that's fine. I'm not here to tell people how to think; I don't like it, you do. That's cool. For what it is worth, I never watched him in ROH either and as yet he hasnt done anything to make me like him. Possibly, there is a bit of psychological backlash on my part; I hate being told how to think and with DBD there is a bit of 'saviour syndrome' where people just can't get their heads round someone disliking him and think you a fool for saying you don't, so there may be some backlash against that......but if there is, it isn't much, it's simply that, as a new comer to his work, so far, not that into him. We'll see after the PPV. Hey, completely appreciate your perspective. I think a lot of the DBD fans/apologists are longtime viewers of his and simply fail to understand that for many, his WWE work is all that they know. I know, when I watch him, I think back to all of the times that I've seen him in ROH or PWG or wherever. Obviously, that will taint my opinion of what I see from him in the Fed, but I can't argue with you.
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Post by Beatle619 on Sept 16, 2010 0:01:36 GMT -5
I agree, just look at Chris Benoit. That guy made the crossface look legit. All the fanboys need to realize that Bryan isn't perfect, and that he's screwing up.
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Post by lockedontarget on Sept 16, 2010 2:59:11 GMT -5
If you're watching kayfabe, then keep kayfabe. So far no one has broken the labell lock without getting the ropes. So it's not a hold that's easily broken. It's potential match ender that nearly tapped out former WWE champion Batista, before Bryan was tossed from NXT on a technicality It's one move that he's barely been able to use and it's effect is, for me, really hurt by his silly grin. As a heel, fine, it probably would work because he could be grinning at the pain, or grinning at the arrogance.....but the guy is meant to be a face, so that doesnt work for me. This is likely one of those things that can go round and round. It's a small issue that some wont care about and for others, it's going to be maddening until it stops. It's been said several times in this thread: he's grinning because it's satisfying to humiliate Miz after being looked down on. It makes perfect sense. It's not about being smug or sadistic, it's about enjoyng the hell out of taking the Miz down a peg.
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Post by lockedontarget on Sept 16, 2010 3:05:05 GMT -5
I agree, just look at Chris Benoit. That guy made the crossface look legit. All the fanboys need to realize that Bryan isn't perfect, and that he's screwing up. The Lebell Lock is already a more "legit" looking move than the crossface to me. Benoit always kind of lazily let the opponent's arm sit between his legs...he rarely made it look good and tight. The LL actually looks secure, and because of that, it also looks deadlier. The fact that Bryan can gleefully smile while his helpless opponent is trapped in his hold makes me take the hold more seriously than anything. Oh, and by the way, just because you think he's "screwing up" doesn't mean that people who don't are "fanboys".
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Sept 16, 2010 11:24:48 GMT -5
Dude, the image of Bryan torturing Alex Riley while grinning right at Miz was one of the best feud-enhancers of any WWE storyline in a while. He wouldn't smile like that in a match, but he does it when he's got the guy trapped, tapping out, surrounded by refs. It shows a lot more than just grr intenseface.
I have no clue where anyone is getting this "he thinks he's the savior" thing. That's not the storyline here at all. The storyline here is that THE MIZ thinks he's the savior of the WWE, and can't accept that Bryan is (at least perceived as) so much better than him as an actual wrestler.
Man, when you'e got people literally swapping the plot on its head to dislike a guy, there's some kind of weirdness going on.
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Bang Bang Bart
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Post by Bang Bang Bart on Sept 16, 2010 11:33:00 GMT -5
It's one move that he's barely been able to use and it's effect is, for me, really hurt by his silly grin. As a heel, fine, it probably would work because he could be grinning at the pain, or grinning at the arrogance.....but the guy is meant to be a face, so that doesnt work for me. This is likely one of those things that can go round and round. It's a small issue that some wont care about and for others, it's going to be maddening until it stops. It's been said several times in this thread: he's grinning because it's satisfying to humiliate Miz after being looked down on. It makes perfect sense. It's not about being smug or sadistic, it's about enjoyng the hell out of taking the Miz down a peg. And besides, who wouldn't enjoy taking an overbearing asshole who keeps messing with you down a peg?
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
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Post by Legion on Sept 16, 2010 12:09:44 GMT -5
Dude, the image of Bryan torturing Alex Riley while grinning right at Miz was one of the best feud-enhancers of any WWE storyline in a while. He wouldn't smile like that in a match, but he does it when he's got the guy trapped, tapping out, surrounded by refs. It shows a lot more than just grr intenseface. I have no clue where anyone is getting this "he thinks he's the savior" thing. That's not the storyline here at all. The storyline here is that THE MIZ thinks he's the savior of the WWE, and can't accept that Bryan is (at least perceived as) so much better than him as an actual wrestler. Man, when you'e got people literally swapping the plot on its head to dislike a guy, there's some kind of weirdness going on. Ok, fair enough, if you feel that the grin is helping to make the fued more intense, cool. I disagree. I think it makes him look silly. For the record, I never said DBD is acting like he is the saviour, I said that other people seem to over look everything that he does that they would criticise others for and blindly try and tell me I should love and should look up his older work and should do this, that and the other; I meant that they act like he is the saviour of wrestling, any wrestling. That was what I meant, I never said he thought it himself, I said his smile makes him look like a sarcastic and arrogant heel, when he is meant to be the face. I'm happy it works for you, but it doesn't for me. I want 'grrrr intenseface' not silly chesire cat face.
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Post by lockedontarget on Sept 17, 2010 1:31:05 GMT -5
Except if you put the smile into the actual context of the story between these two characters, there's nothing sarcastic or arrogant about it.
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
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Post by Legion on Sept 17, 2010 15:01:34 GMT -5
Except if you put the smile into the actual context of the story between these two characters, there's nothing sarcastic or arrogant about it. Nor, storyline speaking, is there any reason for it. He hasn't won the title as yet and the idea he is smiling because he gets to attack Miz would be acceptable, if he wasn't doing it almost the entire time he is on camera. As he is, he just looks bemused to be there. To me.
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Post by lockedontarget on Sept 17, 2010 18:21:43 GMT -5
Except if you put the smile into the actual context of the story between these two characters, there's nothing sarcastic or arrogant about it. Nor, storyline speaking, is there any reason for it. Um...what? The entire storyline is about how Miz looked down his nose at Bryan and how he's humiliated him several times. How does Bryan NOT have a storyline reason to be smiling when he gets to turn the tables and humiliate HIM? He's smiling because he's getting satisfaction from it. Honestly, dude, I don't understand why this is so hard to understand. It fits the context of the storyline just fine. He wasn't grinning at Summerslam. He wasn't grinning when he took on Tarver. He's doing it specifically when dealing with the Miz.
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Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Sept 17, 2010 21:30:55 GMT -5
I think it works. At this point, he needs to look unstoppable - and the easy smile as he locks on his finisher makes the outcome of Miz/Bryan look like a no-brainer in his favor. Which is the correct way to book a babyface against a hated champion.
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Post by texaswhopper on Sept 17, 2010 22:02:00 GMT -5
You know why I like this feud?
It reminds me of the feuds of old.
It feels somewhat 80s to me. Daniel Bryan being the plane jane face and the Miz being the flashy heel. If Daniel Bryan is considered to smile too much, or wear ugly ring tights, or have a 10 dollar haircut I just consider that part of his character. In character Daniel explained that he isn't the Miz and his look is basically terrible. He just thinks he can beat the Miz. He doesn't care about anything else.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2010 8:34:20 GMT -5
They should rename him Guy Smiley like the Muppet. Guy Smiley creeped me out for some reason. Just like DBD.
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