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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Dec 17, 2010 8:55:49 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with it. Unprotected Chair Shots at least look more realisticaly than the stupid "I put my arms over it so nothing happens but i sell it as if i was shot"-Crap. It shouldn't get out of hand as with Mankind-Rock but i seriously doubt that one single Chairshot or even two with those flimsy chairs is that dangerous. It wasn't a problem years ago, why did wrestling and wrestling fans changed to such pussies who think that every 'dangerous' move, every weapon and basically everything that is WRESTLING should be banned, forbidden and sent to hell? Just because one guy went crazy and we still don't know what the real reasons were? I say: Wrestlers know the risk, the same as race car drivers (People died there but they still continue to drive at 300 km/h, right? Nobody said 'Oh no, people could die....let's drop the speed down to 100!') and people in every other sport. Football players don't cry, Hockey players don't cry when they get the puck right in their face (most of them still refuse to wear visors, despite the risk) so i say it is ok. Wrestling would be pretty boring if the 'Emo generation' takes over and bans everything that feels 'brutal' You are pretty much my favorite poster now. Bravo, Madam, Bravo, indeed.
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
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Post by Bo Rida on Dec 17, 2010 8:58:09 GMT -5
In Foley's 2nd book he claims to have been pissed at Rock for months after the RR99. They agreed to 2 shots to the head, and it went well beyond that. I have to question that. Go back and watch the RR99 match. Not only did Foley take a hell of a lot more than 2 shots, he ran into quite a few of them intentionally. Had the Rock gone beyond what was agreed upon, I don't think you'd see Foley running into 3-4 in a row, and Foley would have ultimately been unprepared for several of them. I'm relatively certain that all those chair shots were planned, and I think they both realized they went too far after the match. After Foley started seeing how much it affected his family, he started shifting some of the blame the Rock's way, and has been sticking to that since. Just my thoughts at least. I'm sure Foley said he was partially to blame as he got caught up in the moment, something like he should have stayed down but kept getting up for more. He also said that they never took into account how being handcuffed would prevent him from moving with the chair shots. I agree on the Benoit comments, especially RR2001 and shots to the back of the head.
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
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Post by randomranter on Dec 17, 2010 9:18:27 GMT -5
I'm sure Foley said he was partially to blame as he got caught up in the moment, something like he should have stayed down but kept getting up for more. He also said that they never took into account how being handcuffed would prevent him from moving with the chair shots. Foley always has taken some of the blame, and the Rock does deserve some of it as well. But I don't think anybody questions that. The only thing I question is how many shots were agreed upon. I don't believe it was just two. Foley was prepared for -- and even running into -- several of them, which he wouldn't have done if he didn't know they were coming. I stand by my personal belief that all the chair shots were planned, and they realized later on that they carried things too far. Now I could believe that maybe the Rock got caught up in things and swung too hard. I could also believe they didn't take into account the handcuffs limiting his mobility and making things worse. But as for the actual # of shots, I believe that was all agreed upon in advance. If he's saying that they only agreed upon two, then I think he's only saying that just to appease his family and shift some of the blame away from himself.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Dec 17, 2010 10:21:19 GMT -5
I have mixed opinions on it. On one side I really understand not doing unprotected shots to the head anymore. It's a stupid risk, and it's not worth it. On the other side, I don't see why that means we can't just have protected chair shots to the head. I don't care if they look a little less painful, it certainly looks better than the way that they only do shots to the back now. It just takes me out of the moment the same way that removing the monitors from the announce table for no apparent kayfabe reason does. EDIT: I also don't see why WWE just doesn't use gimmicked chairs. Make the middle of the chair out of the same thing that the cookie sheets they always used in the attitude era were made of. You could do unprotected shots that look brutal but the wrestler would barely feel a thing. Maybe it's not cost effective or something, but making gimmicked chairs specifically for certain matches doesn't seem like it'd be that difficult. I like the kayfabe reason (that I made up) that they take off the monitors because they get find if they don't for breaking camera equipment. Reminds me of the attitude era when guys would take off the monitors and just SLAM them on the floor like they were purposely breaking them. I would prefer for the monitors to be removed for the purpose of head bashing, though I'm pretty sure that's not safer than chair shots so your excuse would probably be the best as long as the wrestlers don't just throw them on the ground anyway.
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Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Dec 17, 2010 10:29:57 GMT -5
It shouldn't get out of hand as with Mankind-Rock but i seriously doubt that one single Chairshot or even two with those flimsy chairs is that dangerous. I don't mean to single one quote out; this goes to everybody who has the same sentiments: I am a 35 year old man who probably has 10% (if that) of the strength of most of these wrestlers. Let me take one of those so-called "flimsy" chairs and hit you over the head unprotected just once, and let's see if you still say it's not that dangerous. Now think of that chair being swung by a man 3X my weight, twice my size, and with about 10X my strength. All it takes is one wrong move and just one of those chair shots could put you on the shelf for a while, injure you permanently, or even kill you. What they were doing was extremely dangerous. This. Those that are in favour of headshots with chairs really dont seem to get it.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Dec 17, 2010 14:56:09 GMT -5
I don't mean to single one quote out; this goes to everybody who has the same sentiments: I am a 35 year old man who probably has 10% (if that) of the strength of most of these wrestlers. Let me take one of those so-called "flimsy" chairs and hit you over the head unprotected just once, and let's see if you still say it's not that dangerous. Now think of that chair being swung by a man 3X my weight, twice my size, and with about 10X my strength. All it takes is one wrong move and just one of those chair shots could put you on the shelf for a while, injure you permanently, or even kill you. What they were doing was extremely dangerous. This. Those that are in favour of headshots with chairs really dont seem to get it. I'm in favour of chairshots, and I do get the danger. And I've talked about this numerous times, but if the guy throwing the chair is competent and knows what he's doing, and the guy taking it does the same, it's fine. I think ECW really did some damage with the use of chairs and headshots, and people trading shots to try and see who was tougher. And, I think guys, while some may know how to throw a chair shot, they wanted to make it look "real", which kinda takes away from the point of wrestling. It's all supposed to look real. Any move in wrestling can be dangerous. Like, it happened with the piledriver. People CAN do them safely, but because people did them unsafely, they were banned. So, outright banning it isn't helping the problem. The problem is 2 things. Competence, and willing to do more then you should and risking your own health. That's what needs to be stopped. Banning chairshots to the head simply puts a bandaid on a guy with his juggular slit. You're not solving the real problem.
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Facepalm
Bubba Ho-Tep
I'm a locksmith, and I'm a locksmith...
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Post by Facepalm on Dec 17, 2010 15:05:14 GMT -5
When I go back and watch some of the matches from a few years ago I can't help but wonder how they got away with it on TV. Watch the match when the Acolytes destroyed Public Enemy, that was just brutal.
Unprotected chairshots to the head like that are just unnecessary.
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babyfootball
Don Corleone
At least as good as Ron Garvin!
Posts: 1,320
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Post by babyfootball on Dec 17, 2010 16:21:45 GMT -5
People don't realize that wrestling isn't real. In addition, nobody thinks it's real anymore. Wrestlers are paid to pretend to hurt each other. When they start actually hurting each other, they aren't so much wrestlers as they are "performance artists." Not all wrestling organizations have to be the same, and I'm not a fan of the government telling us what we can and can't do to our own bodies, no matter how dangerours it is, and professional wrestling is definitely not an actual sport (therefore shouldn't be regulated as one). But if you're a wrestler and you're legitimately killing yourself for people's entertainment, you've become the mark, so to speak. If people want to watch that, I think they should be able to, and lord knows that much of humanity is awful enough to actually want to see it. And if somebody wants to be stupid enough to do it, or has a deathwish or what have you, I say go for it.
But, knowing what we know about head injuries now, displays like Rock/Mankind have no place in mainstream pro wrestling. I'm not saying that wrestling should become completely sanitized kiddie fare, but large organizations such as WWE, and to a lesser extent TNA have to exhibit some level of professional responsibility. Now, your ultraviolent fringe groups, on the other hand, have at it. It's not something I like watching (can't stand a lot of the ultraviolent stuff for that reason), but I suppose they have the right to do it!
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Post by the zookeepah! on Dec 17, 2010 16:26:45 GMT -5
I think that if a wrestler wants to take a chair-shot to the head, then he should be allowed to. Believe it or not, headshots were one of the focal points of wrestling. And I for one, miss it.
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Post by Metalheadbanger Man on Dec 17, 2010 16:32:17 GMT -5
I've been watching some RAW episodes from 1999, and it seems like in every episode at least one person receives a brutal looking chairshot.
There was one random hardcore brawl where Road Dogg BRAINS Gangrel with a chair, and he hardly even sells it. They did rely on it way too much back then I think, even though I'm not opposed to a good-looking chair shot every now and then.
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Gummydavidson
Dennis Stamp
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Post by Gummydavidson on Dec 17, 2010 16:42:19 GMT -5
I think that if a wrestler wants to take a chair-shot to the head, then he should be allowed to. Believe it or not, headshots were one of the focal points of wrestling. And I for one, miss it. same here
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Post by "The Natural" Jeremy Grave on Dec 17, 2010 18:44:05 GMT -5
I think headshots should be allowed only of the type where the guy gets both forearms up before the hit.
And to the guy who said Foley was running into those chairshots, he'd just had 5-6 unprotected blows to the head. I think I'd do stupid shit like that if I'd had that many blows to the head.
Also, I saw Lesnar's lat UFC fight, and i thought back to the Hardy chairshots, and the SSP and I can't help but think they caused that loss. We all know repeated concussions (and thus, CTE) is what finished off Chuck Lidell and Jens Pulver, and I can't help but think it's about to do so to Lesnar, looking at vs Carwin and vs Velasques as opposed to his first 4 fights.
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Post by N E O G E O B O Y S on Dec 17, 2010 18:54:46 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with it. Unprotected Chair Shots at least look more realisticaly than the stupid "I put my arms over it so nothing happens but i sell it as if i was shot"-Crap. It shouldn't get out of hand as with Mankind-Rock but i seriously doubt that one single Chairshot or even two with those flimsy chairs is that dangerous. It wasn't a problem years ago, why did wrestling and wrestling fans changed to such pussies who think that every 'dangerous' move, every weapon and basically everything that is WRESTLING should be banned, forbidden and sent to hell? Just because one guy went crazy and we still don't know what the real reasons were? I say: Wrestlers know the risk, the same as race car drivers (People died there but they still continue to drive at 300 km/h, right? Nobody said 'Oh no, people could die....let's drop the speed down to 100!') and people in every other sport. Football players don't cry, Hockey players don't cry when they get the puck right in their face (most of them still refuse to wear visors, despite the risk) so i say it is ok. Wrestling would be pretty boring if the 'Emo generation' takes over and bans everything that feels 'brutal' What if one day I go to your house and give you a chair shot to the head or use any other weapon? The most probably is that you will protect your head with your hands, so I don't get under which logic is more realistic to take the headshot in the head instead of protect your self, sure the selling is more stupid, but that must be fixed Wrestling fans becames ''pussies'' not only for benoit, but because now appeared lots of investigations that showed the risk with chairshots to the head, or any other kind of impact in the head, the sames happens with football, and it seems than other sports. Why in the f***ing hell I will want to see wrestlers risking their lifes with stupid spots and later see them with their bodies destroyed, just for the pleasure and the prestige of 10 nerds in the internet? And also, for me chairshots is not wrestling, is just another spot, but is not something neccesary, I think that you can still create more secure spots without risking the lifes of the fans just for internet, more if we think that smarks are the most bitter fans of all, we want to see those gladiators risking their lifes just for entertainment and later when they are in wheelchairs, we are sad about their life and somehow still blame mcmahon for their disgrace I say, why I would want to see wrestlers having an stupid risk just because looks ''more real'' if I want to see something real, i will watch mma
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Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Dec 17, 2010 19:16:23 GMT -5
I think chairshots are one of the more redneck trashy parts of wrestling, and as someone who thinks wrestling needs to get rid of that kind of gimmickery (hardcore wreslting is not popular anymore, and the roster is increasingly filled with guys who are better wrestlers) and move onto looking like a legitimate sport. Storytelling mixed with actual wrestling is what they need. Chairshots are not necessary in anyway to the future of pro wrestling. The hardcore thing is done.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,292
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Post by The Ichi on Dec 17, 2010 19:30:10 GMT -5
I don't mean to single one quote out; this goes to everybody who has the same sentiments: I am a 35 year old man who probably has 10% (if that) of the strength of most of these wrestlers. Let me take one of those so-called "flimsy" chairs and hit you over the head unprotected just once, and let's see if you still say it's not that dangerous. Now think of that chair being swung by a man 3X my weight, twice my size, and with about 10X my strength. All it takes is one wrong move and just one of those chair shots could put you on the shelf for a while, injure you permanently, or even kill you. What they were doing was extremely dangerous. This. Those that are in favour of headshots with chairs really dont seem to get it. I'm sorry that I refuse to become a paranoid lunatic just because one guy snapped suposedly due to chairshots out of, oh I dunno, hundreds of other guys that have been taking them since before I was born. Granted that response was maybe going a little too far, but so is saying that anyone who isn't against chairshots "doesn't get it". I don't want to see chairshots being used as much as they were in the attitude era, not even close, but let's stop with painting people that aren't red flagging what is a staple in wrestling as being out of their minds. Of course it's dangerous, so is doing pretty much anything inside a ring, the key is moderation. Did you think we were watching ballet or something?
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Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Dec 17, 2010 19:39:47 GMT -5
This. Those that are in favour of headshots with chairs really dont seem to get it. I'm sorry that I refuse to become a paranoid lunatic just because one guy snapped suposedly due to chairshots out of, oh I dunno, hundreds of other guys that have been taking them since before I was born. Granted that response was maybe going a little too far, but so is saying that anyone who isn't against chairshots "doesn't get it". I don't want to see chairshots being used as much as they were in the attitude era, not even close, but let's stop with painting people that aren't red flagging what is a staple in wrestling as being out of their minds. Of course it's dangerous, so is doing pretty much anything inside a ring, the key is moderation. Did you think we were watching ballet or something? I just dont see the appeal of hitting a guy with a chair anymore. We are out of that phase in wrestling. I prefer seeing the aggressive ring based technical style that guys are bringing now. Guys dont need to use weapons to have good matches or even storytelling. Outside of the ladder, I'd be content with removing every weapon from the WWE ring.
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Post by Azrael from Outerspace on Dec 17, 2010 19:53:47 GMT -5
People don't realize that wrestling isn't real. In addition, nobody thinks it's real anymore. Well we are to believe what is happening is real. Just like in any movie. But really then you have to ban cross body blocks because every time i see one taken all i can do is watch the back of their head bounce. I've been watching some RAW episodes from 1999, and it seems like in every episode at least one person receives a brutal looking chairshot. There was one random hardcore brawl where Road Dogg BRAINS Gangrel with a chair, and he hardly even sells it. They did rely on it way too much back then I think, even though I'm not opposed to a good-looking chair shot every now and then. And here lies the (old) problem. I wouldn't care at all if it didn't happen all the time. But then again if wrestling shows didn't involve any weapons i wouldn't mind much.
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Post by rapidfire187 on Dec 17, 2010 19:57:23 GMT -5
I'm sorry that I refuse to become a paranoid lunatic just because one guy snapped suposedly due to chairshots out of, oh I dunno, hundreds of other guys that have been taking them since before I was born. Granted that response was maybe going a little too far, but so is saying that anyone who isn't against chairshots "doesn't get it". I don't want to see chairshots being used as much as they were in the attitude era, not even close, but let's stop with painting people that aren't red flagging what is a staple in wrestling as being out of their minds. Of course it's dangerous, so is doing pretty much anything inside a ring, the key is moderation. Did you think we were watching ballet or something? I just dont see the appeal of hitting a guy with a chair anymore. We are out of that phase in wrestling. I prefer seeing the aggressive ring based technical style that guys are bringing now. Guys dont need to use weapons to have good matches or even storytelling. Outside of the ladder, I'd be content with removing every weapon from the WWE ring. The aggressive technical style? You mean, punch punch kick suplex chinlock irish whip hiptoss signature move? Because that's sadly what a lot of WWE matches have been like for years now. Not to take away from the guys in the company that DO have technical ability or at least throw realistic looking strikes. If everyone in the company was a Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, or Kaval I'd be perfectly happy with never seeing another chair shot again. Though I don't think I'll ever be able to give up my love for tables and ladders. Somehow I feel like I'm going to get a lot of flack for naming 3 indy darlings in that paragraph. Sorry.
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Remix
Trap-Jaw
Posts: 384
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Post by Remix on Dec 17, 2010 20:03:50 GMT -5
And guys, you do know that even protected chairshots pass on impact to the brain don't you? Sure it's a hell of a lot less, but it's still going to have a knock on effect on your health.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Dec 17, 2010 20:04:16 GMT -5
I will agree with a quote Jerry Lynn said, talking about putting your hands up when someone throws a chair. It's habit, like, if you're protecting yourself and a blunt object is coming towards your head, you're going to block. The commentators help here, by saying that he tried getting his hands up to protect the full impact of the blow, but he obviously failed because he's laid out.
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