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Post by baresolid on Apr 20, 2011 8:45:48 GMT -5
The business is enough of a joke as it is.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2011 8:47:18 GMT -5
To be perfectly honest, I could buy into a woman pinning Miz clean. Very true. A wrestler doesn't have to be jacked up to look like a world champion, but Miz looks like a frat boy parading around with a toy belt. I could totally see a Chyna-esque female being able to beat him and make it look believeable. Someone like Cena losing to a female, not as realistic.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Apr 20, 2011 9:02:36 GMT -5
To be perfectly honest, I could buy into a woman pinning Miz clean. Very true. A wrestler doesn't have to be jacked up to look like a world champion, but Miz looks like a frat boy parading around with a toy belt. I could totally see a Chyna-esque female being able to beat him and make it look believeable. Someone like Cena losing to a female, not as realistic. Again, Kong is billed at 272 pounds. John Cena is billed at 240 pounds. How is it not believable for Cena to lose?
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Post by FUNK_US/BRODUS on Apr 20, 2011 9:02:46 GMT -5
Then they should be, it further ridicules the Divas division to ahve a woman step out of it to challenge for a mens title. And then what dio you do with the woman who wins a singles title? cant throw her back to the Divas, because she is a step ahead of everyone else. There is no reason to have a woman challenge for the World Titles. It isnt sexist to say so, its just common sense. the Divas division needs to be treated more respectably. How does it ridicule the divas division. That makes no sense. And what if it was Kong (who's bigger than Cena) or Aloisa (who's taller than the Undertaker)? What then? Take Beth Phoenix. In her first title run, she was built as a monster, and Mickie James was the underdog face who finally got the win. If you bring Beth out of the division and into the mens title races, it basically says that the Divas arent good enough and that the bets wrestler has to go elsewhere. How do you realistically have anyone beat her if she is a former IC/US champion? I dont get why people think a female world champion would go over at all. Instead, why dont they concentrate on building the womens division back to its prestige of 2004 when Lita defeated Trish in the MAIN EVENT of Raw? And like I said on the first page, if you have a woman challenging for the mens titles, then what stops a guy challenging for the Divas title? Although theyve never said it on air, its fairly obvious that the titles are gender specific.
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Post by baresolid on Apr 20, 2011 9:02:54 GMT -5
There is at least one excellent post in this topic. The world heavyweight champion of wrestling is supposed to be 'believeable' as the hardest man in the building. If you believe that in the kayfabe era, booking was better, as I do, then you must ask yourself 'why' that is. It's because it 'had to be' believeable or people would decry the business as fake bullshit. OK, so everyone knows it's all fake now, but we should still have it such that people can suspend their disbelief during the show. Wrestling is a simulated sport - it would helpa lot if it was booked as such.
This is also partly my problem with Raw and Smackdown not having 'cards' advertised in advance. It just all seems very unprofessional.
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Post by Disaster Report on Apr 20, 2011 9:06:05 GMT -5
Again, Kong is billed at 272 pounds. John Cena is billed at 240 pounds. How is it not believable for Cena to lose? Cena is a bad example if you're going purely by size or weight comparison; if he could FU the Big Show, he could easily hoist Kong up. Plus he's at least intimidating physically, etc.
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Apr 20, 2011 9:10:59 GMT -5
How does it ridicule the divas division. That makes no sense. And what if it was Kong (who's bigger than Cena) or Aloisa (who's taller than the Undertaker)? What then? Take Beth Phoenix. In her first title run, she was built as a monster, and Mickie James was the underdog face who finally got the win. If you bring Beth out of the division and into the mens title races, it basically says that the Divas arent good enough and that the bets wrestler has to go elsewhere. Yeah, and? That's only a problem if all the women were pushed to the world title.
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Post by snookimaniac on Apr 20, 2011 9:11:18 GMT -5
See, this is one of the reasons I'm not sold on Miz being the champion. The champion (in kayfabe) should be the toughest guy on the roster - someone like Goldberg or Austin. I know wrestling is fake of course, I'd just like a more legit WWE champion please. That's not to say we need to have a big badass champion everytime. then Flair should never have been champion because he was a total wuss and couldnt fight his way out of a wet paper bag yet he was champion through the majority of the 80s Miz nowadays would kill 80s Flair in a shoot
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Post by Perpetual Nirvana on Apr 20, 2011 9:14:07 GMT -5
See, this is one of the reasons I'm not sold on Miz being the champion. The champion (in kayfabe) should be the toughest guy on the roster - someone like Goldberg or Austin. I know wrestling is fake of course, I'd just like a more legit WWE champion please. That's not to say we need to have a big badass champion everytime. then Flair should never have been champion because he was a total wuss and couldnt fight his way out of a wet paper bag yet he was champion through the majority of the 80s Miz nowadays would kill 80s Flair in a shoot Have you actually seen Ric Flair in the 80's?
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Post by Disaster Report on Apr 20, 2011 9:14:56 GMT -5
then Flair should never have been champion because he was a total wuss and couldnt fight his way out of a wet paper bag yet he was champion through the majority of the 80s do what? lol
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Post by baresolid on Apr 20, 2011 9:21:52 GMT -5
See, this is one of the reasons I'm not sold on Miz being the champion. The champion (in kayfabe) should be the toughest guy on the roster - someone like Goldberg or Austin. I know wrestling is fake of course, I'd just like a more legit WWE champion please. That's not to say we need to have a big badass champion everytime. then Flair should never have been champion because he was a total wuss and couldnt fight his way out of a wet paper bag yet he was champion through the majority of the 80s Miz nowadays would kill 80s Flair in a shoot How much wrestling have you actually seen? Ric Flair fought sixty minute draws night after night with some of the biggest legends in the business. He fought in bloody, brutal, stiff matches with real old-school stretchers and came out on top often.
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Post by Drillbit Taylor on Apr 20, 2011 9:34:16 GMT -5
Id rather have an inter gendered Tag team Champs Like Kong/Miz than a woman as the top champ.
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anglarite
Don Corleone
...enchantment!
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Post by anglarite on Apr 20, 2011 9:46:30 GMT -5
It would hurt both divisions. It would force superstars to job to a woman, and even those who would do it, would lose a lot of credibility. A workaround would be a heel female champion who somehow always manages to thwart the real top stars ability to become number one challengers and somehow non-main eventers to become challengers instead, which again, would only hurt the title scene.
Another point would be, that with whopping 2-3 minute matches there is simply no diva who would be a credible candidate. Also, the most devastating moves in the divas divisions like Eve's moonsault or Beth Phoenix's powerbomb (which again, couldn't really be done with a man) usually don't win heavyweight championship matches.
It could be working with the intercontinental or US titles where there is more leeway about who challenges whom, and the audience is less expecting. Also, mixed tag team champions would be a good start. Shame they dissolved the Cruiseweight division, that would be the perfect place for Nattie to sharpshooter Chavo or Primo.
Also, it automatically raises the question if divas can compete in the heavyweight title, why couldn't male wrestlers go for the divas championship? And putting the pink belt on a male, or at least some fancy title, like "MISS WRESTLEMANIA" would be stupid enough for the WWE to risk it, wouldn't it?
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Square
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Post by Square on Apr 20, 2011 9:57:01 GMT -5
If it happened I wouldn't watch, I can't stand male v female matches (which is quite hard as a CHIAKRA fan)
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DeathRay
Don Corleone
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Post by DeathRay on Apr 20, 2011 10:15:16 GMT -5
Also, it automatically raises the question if divas can compete in the heavyweight title, why couldn't male wrestlers go for the divas championship? And putting the pink belt on a male, or at least some fancy title, like "MISS WRESTLEMANIA" would be stupid enough for the WWE to risk it, wouldn't it? The divas championship belongs to the Women's Division, and you have to be a woman to be elegible for a title shot. The WWE/World Championship is supposed to represent an entire brand (RAW / Smackdown) and crown the best wrestler of that specific brand, regardless of gender, weight, height, etc.
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Post by snookimaniac on Apr 20, 2011 10:40:06 GMT -5
How much wrestling have you actually seen? Ric Flair fought sixty minute draws night after night with some of the biggest legends in the business. He fought in bloody, brutal, stiff matches with real old-school stretchers and came out on top often. Smarks have a romantic notion about all these 12 hour matches old school wrestlers supposedly had but really if you actually watch them they are slow and plodding affairs with tons of restholds. Bottom line nowadays wrestlers do more in 15 minutes than old school wrestlers did in 60. Anyway the point is Flair would not win in a shoot against any of those opponents...who cares if he bladed and flopped around the ring, that just makes him a punching bag, like Mick Foley.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2011 10:44:28 GMT -5
I could see somebody like Beth Phoenix or Awesome Kong holding the title, it would be different and interesting to say the least. (Bonus points if they beat someone like Rey Mysterio for the title. ;D)
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Post by Disaster Report on Apr 20, 2011 10:48:13 GMT -5
Smarks have a romantic notion about all these 12 hour matches old school wrestlers supposedly had but really if you actually watch them they are slow and plodding affairs with tons of restholds. Bottom line nowadays wrestlers do more in 15 minutes than old school wrestlers did in 60. Anyway the point is Flair would not win in a shoot against any of those opponents...who cares if he bladed and flopped around the ring, that just makes him a punching bag, like Mick Foley. Wow.
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Post by Wolf Hurricane on Apr 20, 2011 10:52:36 GMT -5
How much wrestling have you actually seen? Ric Flair fought sixty minute draws night after night with some of the biggest legends in the business. He fought in bloody, brutal, stiff matches with real old-school stretchers and came out on top often. Smarks have a romantic notion about all these 12 hour matches old school wrestlers supposedly had but really if you actually watch them they are slow and plodding affairs with tons of restholds. Bottom line nowadays wrestlers do more in 15 minutes than old school wrestlers did in 60. Anyway the point is Flair would not win in a shoot against any of those opponents...who cares if he bladed and flopped around the ring, that just makes him a punching bag, like Mick Foley. Obvious troll is obvious. As far as women competing for the Heavyweight title, I can't say I agree with it. This isn't about how the title would be treated, as much as how the diva who won it would be treated. People bring up Chyna, and rightfully so; but if you actually saw her in the Attitude Era, she rarely faced other women, and when she did, it was always a rout. Hell, she retired undefeated, with none of the divas able to take the Women's title off of her. The only way they could have a woman compete for a males title, let alone the WWE/World Heavyweight Title, she would have to essentially be removed from the divas division as Chyna was in the Attitude Era. Much like Chyna, when ever a title was put on Big Show, or Yokozuna, or any other super-heavyweight or superpower, they were essentially unrivaled and impossible to beat outside of weapon use or by another superpower/super-heavyweight.
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BHB
Hank Scorpio
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Post by BHB on Apr 20, 2011 12:48:16 GMT -5
then Flair should never have been champion because he was a total wuss and couldnt fight his way out of a wet paper bag yet he was champion through the majority of the 80s Miz nowadays would kill 80s Flair in a shoot How much wrestling have you actually seen? Ric Flair fought sixty minute draws night after night with some of the biggest legends in the business. He fought in bloody, brutal, stiff matches with real old-school stretchers and came out on top often. Exactly. Flair was recognised as one of the best if not the best wrestler in the world at one point. Miz isn't.
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